Sharpening JPEGs in LR3?

PilotBrad

When I started using a DSLR about a year ago I decided to shoot nothing but RAW, however I've recently gone back to shooting JPEGs for casual family shots and something occured to me in the process.

I've applied sharpening, both in the develop module and at export, to all of my RAW files, but what should I do with JPEGs?

Since JPEGs are already sharpened by the camera (settings dependent), would seem that they as long as they are acceptably sharp that perhpas they don't need any additional sharpening in Lightroom?

With this in mind, I've been leaving the sharpening sliders in the develop module at their default values, and only applying sharpening on export, but perhaps that isn't needed.

Anyway... I am just sort of curious what other do or if you have any suggestions with regards to sharpening JPEGs in LR?

colourbox

The sharpening in Lightroom is for capture sharpening. I think your logic is good that you might not need to apply any more in Lightroom...unless you feel that your camera's own sharpening settings were too low.

The sharpening in Lightroom export is for output sharpening, a separate stage with different requirements. You might need to still do that, especially if you are changing the size on export since an image should be output-sharpened for the specific output type and size.

pathfinder

Brad, I do use the sharpening sliders on some of my jpg snaps that I run through LR. I also use the Exposure, Recovery, Fill and Blacks sliders as well. I use them more gingerly than I do for RAW files, as jpgs have less data and are much more "brittle". I usually limit my sharpening amount to less than 30 or 40, while with RAW files I may use more like 65 - 95 for an amount.

Ken is right that capture sharpening is really meant for RAW files, but I do not have my jpgs sharpened in my camera very much at all, so.........


If you are uncertain how the sliders will affect your images in LR, take an straight out of the camera jpg and print it, and then take one of your edited in LR jpg files, and print it also, and compare the prints under good color balanced lighting, and decide for yourself which is better. We all seem to have forgotten how to make test prints, since we left the old silver darkroom for the digital darkroom.

PilotBrad

Thanks guys... I've been experimenting a bit and have found that as you say combination of no additional capture sharpening (above the LR default), and a low-medium amount of output sharpening seems to yield good results.

paddler4

I think the "capture sharpening" terminology often confuses people. The tools people use for "capture" sharpening can be used at any point in your workflow. Some people have arguments in favor of doing this early, some in favor of doing it late, but the math underlying the tools is the same.


So, if your JPGs look sharp enough to you, fine. If not, you can use any of the regular sharpening tools for this, such as the LR sliders and photoshop tools like unsharp mask and smart sharpen. During the time that I was shooting JPG with an XTi, almost all of my shots needed additional sharpening.


"output sharpening" is different in two ways. First, it often entails sharpening more than you like on the screen to compensate for loss of sharpness, e.g., in printing. Second, it SOMETIMES uses different tools. For example, in LR, you can do do output sharpening for a printer in print stage, and you won't see on screen what it will look like. However, you can also do output sharpening by oversharpening with traditional tools, such as the LR sliders or unsharp mask.

arodney

paddler4 wrote: »

I think the "capture sharpening" terminology often confuses people. The tools people use for "capture" sharpening can be used at any point in your workflow. Some people have arguments in favor of doing this early, some in favor of doing it late, but the math underlying the tools is the same.

Ah, well OK, but it has to be done prior to creative and then output sharpening, should be done after noise reduction. Its clearly spelled out by the man who came up with the term and workflow:

http://www.creativepro.com/story/feature/20357.html

By default, the sharpening settings (amount) for JPEGs in Develop should set itself to zero, meaning no capture sharpening which is a good starting point since sharpening probably has been applied in-camera.

colourbox

paddler4 wrote: »

"output sharpening" is different in two ways. First, it often entails sharpening more than you like on the screen to compensate for loss of sharpness, e.g., in printing. Second, it SOMETIMES uses different tools. For example, in LR, you can do do output sharpening for a printer in print stage, and you won't see on screen what it will look like. However, you can also do output sharpening by oversharpening with traditional tools, such as the LR sliders or unsharp mask.

I would only call that "output sharpening" if it was easily detachable from the original (nondestructively). For example, if I am "output sharpening" with traditional tools or unsharp mask and I save it flattened with the original, now my original is locked into sharpening for only one output. If I want to output to a different size or medium, I need to be able to alter the sharpening or start over.

So yes I agree that you can do output sharpening with any tools, but to be true output sharpening it needs to not be permanently baked into the image, or in the case of Lightroom at least done with a nondestructive tool so you can strip it off and apply sharpening appropriate for a different output later.

That's what's so cool about the output sharpening in Lightroom and Camera Raw. If I last exported to low-res web, and this time I set up a large glossy print, which needs radically different output sharpening, the LR output sharpening automatically calculates and adapts without affecting the original.