D40, D50, or D70?

kithylin

Hai there, i know i'm new to this forum, but i'm looking at my next major camera purchase, and i thought i'd bounce it off you guys for input, since i still have about 6 days before buying it.

Situation: I bought my current camera (Canon PowerShot S3 IS) a few years ago, and it's served me well, but I've learned so much about photography in the past 6 months, that i'm at the point where i've found the majority of my situations where i'm shooting photos, i want my camera to do more, and it just can't, so i need to replace it.

For personal reasons, i do not want canon ever again, i don't want to go into detail either, just focus on my next purchase: Nikon.

Total budget will be $300, to find a body + lens minimum, perferrably at least a battery charger and spare battery with it.

So far i've been monitoring about 15 auctions on ebay with ebay watch list, and I've seen several D70's go for about $250 - $300 with lens and charger and at least 1 battery, some with memory cards, saw one for $315 with 2 other lenses and 4 memory cards and etc.

I'm leaning the most towards a D70, but i've been noticing the past few days that i see D40's and D50's as big combo packs of everything i'd want, within my price range, so I'm asking you guys, for my money for today, and for a camera to last me a while: D40, D50, or D70, and why?

Alternatively i've seen a few auctions for a D60 body + kit lens for $320 - $350, saw one for $295 the other day, but no battery no charger, just body and lens and no memory card either, i might could maybe get one of those, but i'd be buying accessories later so it'd end up costing more in the end... would it be worth it for a newer model?

Looking for input.

r3t1awr3yd

D40 is the only one of those that doesn't have the AF motor built into the body. If you wanna go with some super cheap lenses too, the D50/70 are the ways to go.

Look at Adorama/B&H/UsedCameras.com sites. They all have super cheap used bodies there.

brianb

I have a D70S. The D70 and D50 came out before the D40 (and D60), but they have one important feature, depending on how much you want to get into photography: a built in focus motor. With that feature, lenses that are autofocus, but not AF-S (built in motor), will still autofocus. Examples: AF 50mm 1.8, AF 85mm 1.8 would be manual focus only on a D40 or D60.

Physically, the D70 is larger, with a few more features (which is why I originally picked it). If possible, it's best to physically hold each type to see how well it feels for you (button layout, size, etc).

Some comparisons between the models:

http://www.digital-slr-guide.com/nikon-d50-vs-d70s.html
http://www.dpnotes.com/nikon-d40-vs-nikon-d50/

There's also reviews for each on dpreview.com, which are quite in depth:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond70/
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond50/
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond40/


One thing to keep in mind as well if you're on a budget, is its possible to use any Nikon AI or AI-S lens with any of these cameras as well, but it will require manually setting the shutter speed, aperture, and manual focus. A good place for info on many older lenses is http://www.naturfotograf.com/lens_surv.html.

Hope that helps some, good luck!
Brian

ziggy53

kithylin wrote: »

... i want my camera to do more, and it just can't, so i need to replace it.

...

You don't mention what it is that your current camera does not do for you nor your expectations for the new camera. Please elaborate and be as explicit as possible in the types of photography you wish to cover. Digital SLRs are an extremely flexible tool and they can lead you in many different directions.

I also have to caution you that dSLRs are pretty complicated and failure is more likely than some folks realize. When you say you are looking, "... for a camera to last me a while ...", but you are buying a used entry-level camera with a budget of $300. I just don't know if that is a realistic expectation.

Photography can be a lifelong pursuit and it's one of the few hobbies that can reward with both emotional and financial gain. I encourage you to continue in your quest but it might be better to save for a bit until you can invest in at least some lighting to go with the camera and lens. After subject and setting, light and lighting is more important than camera and lens.

Whatever your decision, be sure to frequent the Digital Grin as one of the top resources of information regarding photography. We have some extremely talented and sharing photographers at this site and I cannot stress how important this wealth of people and knowledge can be when you are learning.

InsuredDisaster

I've got the D60, and two D70's. I know the D60 is not the D40 but they are very similar. Please remember however, that there are differences I am not aware of. I personally find the D70 to have a more versatile AF system with a lot more options. You've got more AF points and IMO, an AF that works better in the dark. Also, there are more controls on the camera body so you can change some settings much faster. Battery life is also a bit better, because the D70 has an monocrome LCD display in addtion to the review screen on the back. I also feel the D70 is slightly more rugged than the D60, but I can't say this has been tested.

The D60 has a better review/zoom setup. There is a + and - zoom button. With the D70, you have to hold down one button and then rotate a command dial to zoom in and out. Also, the review screen is pretty low resolution. I am not familiar with the D40 camera, so while similar to the D60, you should probably look to see just how similar they are. But in terms of review/picture display, I'd pick the D60 over the D70.

I would like to comment on image quality, but again, it is probalby not much help to you. The D70 clearly shows reduced dynamic range compared to the D60, but in terms of ISO, the D60 and D70 are very similar. Don't go over 800 with either. However, the D60 goes to 3200. Not sure about the D40 here.

As you can see, both cameras have some strenghts and weaknesses.

I think you should come up with a "road map" of what you think you might end up buying in the next 2-3 years, and what will happen to whatever camera you get now. If you plan on ONLY getting AF-S lenses (with built in AF motors) then the D40 would be a good solution. I'd probably stick with the 18-55 and 55-200 zooms for the forseable future, and then consider adding something like the new 35mm 1.4. What you'll have here is a fairly lightweight, flexible system.

HOWEVER: If you think that you'll want to buy something like the 20mm 2.8 (I think this would be a great lens for the DX format) or something really big like any of the 2.8 zooms, or start adding flashes to your kit. the D70 might be a better choice as IMO, the bigger size makes it a better camera to mount bigger attachments to. I found the D60 and the 70-200 2.8 did not seem to work out very well. The D60 did not seem to be able to handle that kind of weight.
Another benefit of the D70 (for me) is that the batteries and memory cards are the same for my D300 and D700. It is great to have 4 cameras all on one battery or memory card. Finally, I like having two command dials.

My vote is for the D70 over the D40, but please check first, as I'm using the D60 as my comparison camera.

EDIT:
I was writing my original post while Ziggy posted his. He also brings up a good point. These D70's are what, 6 years old now I think? The thing is, if it breaks, you are looking at a very expensive repair for a very old camera. It is possible that your repair may add up to 30-40 percent of the purchase price. My D70 is used for IR photography. I purchased a second one (actually a D70s) for a second body to go with my D300, as not too long ago had to have the D70IR repaired due to some sort of mildue in the viewfinder. The repair was so expensive I've decided not to repair the camera ever again. Should the D70 break again, the D70s will have the IR filter swapped out, and the D70 will be junked.

Considering this, you may want to think about buying something newer, just because "What if?" could be very expensive, possibly adding up to nearly the cost of whatever Nikon is selling instead of the D60 these days. Of course, my D70's might last for years yet. We'll just have to see.

ThatCanonGuy

I suggest saving up and getting the cheapest body you can find. Then buy the very best lens you can afford. That will make your photos better than a great camera & a lousy lens will. But $300 is really gonna limit you. You might wanna save for a little longer.

David-Stallard

Just to throw a spanner in the mix - have a good look at the Sony Alpha range, 'super steady shot' is in the body NOT the lens, lot's of the old Minolta glass will fit and give fantastic results at a very reasonable price. My wife started off with the canon G10 and rapidily moved up to her first dslr the Sony a330 which is very easy to use and has since pinched my back-up a700 with terrific results, check out her 'small' gallery here>> http://cory-stallard.smugmug.com/ On top of that the Sony gear is very well priced and in my honest opinion VERY underrated.

.DAVID.

kithylin

brianb wrote: »

One thing to keep in mind as well if you're on a budget, is its possible to use any Nikon AI or AI-S lens with any of these cameras as well, but it will require manually setting the shutter speed, aperture, and manual focus.

1.) I actually perfer manual settings for shutter speed and aperture.
2.) I'd probably perfer auto focus only for casual shots.
3.) I wouldn't mind manual focus on a long zoom lens, if i were zooming in on something that far, i'd probably be very stationary and possibly consider a tripod, depending on the subject.
4.) I don't mind manual zoom in all situations, in fact after using my S3 for a while i think i'd perfer it.

ziggy53 wrote: »

You don't mention what it is that your current camera does not do for you nor your expectations for the new camera. Please elaborate and be as explicit as possible in the types of photography you wish to cover.

I'm fairly sure at the moment right now, I won't be making money with this for the forseeable future, maybe 2-3 years down the road from now.

Basicly, i'm looking for a camera that at the moment will at least take clear shots of what i'm trying to photo. I'm mainly fustrated with my current camera still producing the resulting image a little pixelated and sometimes slightly blurry, even when shooting at high shutter speeds, at it's lowest possible ISO setting, it's just a limitation of the hardware.

As an example: http://www.outfoxed.net/~admin/misc/digital_camera/IMG_2181.JPG

Sorry for the speed, but it's hosted here on my server at home, as i can't find a place on the net to put full sized pictures that let me link to em.

It's good, but it's not as clear as i'd like from my photos.

Also, i can't add lenses to this camera i have, even with it's 'adapter tube' thing, and it'll never zoom past what's built into the thing.

InsuredDisaster wrote: »

Considering this, you may want to think about buying something newer, just because "What if?" could be very expensive, possibly adding up to nearly the cost of whatever Nikon is selling instead of the D60 these days. Of course, my D70's might last for years yet. We'll just have to see.

None of us can foretell the future, but likely some time around december next year, I may actually get a real job again and be able to spend more money on photography stuff. Right now i'm selling two things i currently have to come up with some money to try and get something better than my S3. When it's all said and done, the $300 will not be a penny spent out of pocket, as i've sold some things i already had for it.

I just need a better unit to try and learn how all of this works for a while, right now, and if i decide later next year or the year after that i seriously want to persue this as a part of my life, then i'll look into buying a whole new modern kit by then.

ThatCanonGuy wrote: »

I suggest saving up and getting the cheapest body you can find. Then buy the very best lens you can afford. That will make your photos better than a great camera & a lousy lens will. But $300 is really gonna limit you. You might wanna save for a little longer.

There's been some auctions on ebay i've tracked and seen end that i didn't have the money to get in on the bidding at the time. One of which was a D70s body, with a lens that was selling for $400 by it's self (i looked on other sites and around on ebay the time) and memory cards, and a spare battery and it ended up going for $285 at the end.

So if i'm patient and watch, I'm fairly sure i can find something similar before the end of the year.

Matthew Saville

The D70 holds a special place in my heart, for sure. It was my first (and second) DSLR, I bought my 1st one right when it came out in early 2004, and my 2nd one (because I was shooting events and needed a backup) about a year later.

It is the cheapest DSLR that still has the advantages of AF-D autofocus, dual command dials, wireless flash control, and 1/500th shutter sync. No other DSLR can match those capabilities for such a price. After the D70, Nikon took away all those features unless you upgraded to the D80 / D90.

If you get the D70 you definitely will have to give up almost EVERY current generation bell and whistle, such as the large LCD screens, nice menus, rapid frame rate, and high ISO performance. But as a casual walk-around camera that you can get GREAT images from in decent light, there is definitely nothing in it's price range that compares. The next best thing might be a Canon 20D, although personally if I had a little extra to spend. I'd go for a Nikon D80 over any older generation Canon body, period.

So, if you can save up a couple hundred bucks more, get a D80 and you'll be quite happy. Hoewever if getting the camera soon and within budget, the D70 will definitely treat you well. I hope to buy another one some day, just for casual / fun shooting. :-)

=Matt=

kithylin

Matthew Saville wrote: »

The D70 holds a special place in my heart, for sure. It was my first (and second) DSLR, I bought my 1st one right when it came out in early 2004, and my 2nd one (because I was shooting events and needed a backup) about a year later.

It is the cheapest DSLR that still has the advantages of AF-D autofocus, dual command dials, wireless flash control, and 1/500th shutter sync. No other DSLR can match those capabilities for such a price. After the D70, Nikon took away all those features unless you upgraded to the D80 / D90.

If you get the D70 you definitely will have to give up almost EVERY current generation bell and whistle, such as the large LCD screens, nice menus, rapid frame rate, and high ISO performance. But as a casual walk-around camera that you can get GREAT images from in decent light, there is definitely nothing in it's price range that compares. The next best thing might be a Canon 20D, although personally if I had a little extra to spend. I'd go for a Nikon D80 over any older generation Canon body, period.

So, if you can save up a couple hundred bucks more, get a D80 and you'll be quite happy. Hoewever if getting the camera soon and within budget, the D70 will definitely treat you well. I hope to buy another one some day, just for casual / fun shooting. :-)

=Matt=

Yeah i've been discussing with some friends, and it seem sfor my purposes right now at this moment and time, the D70 is the best price/performance for me, and i can likely afford one with the budget i've set (I saw another D70 auction on ebay with lots of extras go off for $285 yesterday).

Thanks for the input, though.:D

InsuredDisaster

Since you like to shoot manual, the D70 dual command dials will probably be faster than the D40 with it's single dial.

kithylin

InsuredDisaster wrote: »

Since you like to shoot manual, the D70 dual command dials will probably be faster than the D40 with it's single dial.

I don't know the controls yet on the D70, but I've found in the past few months with my canon S3 IS i've been shooting in manual setting only, don't even bother with any of the priority modes any more, i just rather have direct control over every aspect of it when i shoot something, maybe it's a personal thing.

InsuredDisaster

kithylin wrote: »

I don't know the controls yet on the D70, but I've found in the past few months with my canon S3 IS i've been shooting in manual setting only, don't even bother with any of the priority modes any more, i just rather have direct control over every aspect of it when i shoot something, maybe it's a personal thing.

Well, that's why I suggest you get the D70 over the D40. There is a command dial next to your right thumb, and a second next to your right pointer finger. So you can simultaneously change the aperture and shutter speed. The D40 (Again remember, I have the D60, which is similar) has only one dial so you can adjust the shutter speed pretty easily, but to change aperture, you must push down a button and then rotate the rear command dial again. If memory serves me correctly, you are unable to change the exposure compensation while in manual mode unless you go into the menu settings since the button you push to change aperture is in fact, the EC button. Also, if you set EC an indicator pops up in the viewfinder, but you can't see how much it has changed unless you take the viewfinder away from your eye and look at the back LCD screen.

With the D70, since there are more "hard buttons" you can more easily change ISO as well as change EC, even without lowering your camera.

ThatCanonGuy

Just remember, just because a camera is outdated/discontinued donesn't mean it's not good. I remember when the D80 was in its prime, before the D90. It was a great camera, and guess what, it hasn't gotten any worse ;~). Other cams have just gotten better. And another thing, I don't know Nikon but if you can't AF I think you would find it very limiting.

kithylin

ThatCanonGuy wrote: »

Just remember, just because a camera is outdated/discontinued donesn't mean it's not good. I remember when the D80 was in its prime, before the D90. It was a great camera, and guess what, it hasn't gotten any worse ;~). Other cams have just gotten better. And another thing, I don't know Nikon but if you can't AF I think you would find it very limiting.

*nod* i'd perfer autofocus for my 'general' lens for 'general' shots, like walking around just shooting random stuff, or parties, or what not. but if i wanted to actually spend a few minutes and get a scene or shot *just perfect* i wouldn't really mind manual focus too much, probably have a zoom lens for that too, i dunno yet.

And thanks to all the input here I've pretty much set my heart on a D70, for now, i just have to afford it x.x 2 days left on my S3 up on ebay, hopin i get enough from it + broken laptop i sold last week to buy a d70 x.x that's the plan anyway.

Edit: yay! my D70 is bought and on it's way, ended up with a Quantaray 18-80mm AF & MF lens for it, and body + lens + memory card + a few minor accessories only came to $305 with shipping.