Ok, outdoor lighting gurus....

divamum

What would you do with this? I went out location-scouting today for this engagement shoot coming up on Sunday, and I'm in love with the idea of this wall (look familiar, Blur? ). Love the way it looks and would really like to use it, but am at a loss how I could light it to make it interesting. I'm guessing that at the time of day we'll be there (later than these were taken), there will be little direct light of any kind because of the way the buildings will block it - I could be wrong, but I'd rather not count on amazing shafts of light or something yummy to reflect, and thus want to figure out something possible before I get there. I keep thinking of that amazing shot Jeff did of the senior in the red gown against an ivy wall, but I think that had more direct ambient on it. (Or maybe not?)

I was hoping to get away with bringing only one flash/umbrella (42" shoothru) setup just to avoid lugging stuff around since it will have to be carried rather than left out or in the car, but two flashes are possible if necessary. I use ETTL in general.

So... suggestions?

left side of alley





right side of alley

Wil Davis

From the look of the shadows in #2, if the shoot is later, it looks like you'll be out of luck as far as using natural light is concerned. The textures are great but in order to make use of them they will need to be lit. I would make sure that I included a couple of large reflectors (Lastolites) in the kit, just in case. Good luck!

- Wil

divamum

Thanks, Wil - that's exactly why I'm posting the question! I'll of course have reflectors with me, but I think it will need flash to make it work; I know that we have some master lighters in here, and I'd lurrrvvee their input on what to do with it without much ambient to help me out

ETA: I should say DIRECTIONAL ambient - there will be light, just not where I want it

l.k.madison

divamum wrote: »

I keep thinking of that amazing shot Jeff did of the senior in the red gown against an ivy wall, but I think that had more direct ambient on it. (Or maybe not?)

Every shot Jeff takes is amazing... you don't know this by now?

divamum

Well, duh That one was super-amazing on the "red dress in front of an ivy wall" front, though. Jeff, where are you these days - I need outdoor lighting inspiration! (although more than happy to hear from any of you other lovelies as well - you all rock my world, and you know it!!)

l.k.madison

divamum wrote: »

Well, duh That one was super-amazing on the "red dress in front of an ivy wall" front, though. Jeff, where are you these days - I need outdoor lighting inspiration! (although more than happy to hear from any of you other lovelies as well - you all rock my world, and you know it!!)

He's the Mann (I'm sooo cheesy, I know) to talk to about outdoor lighting, and indoor, too. I've seen him in action, it's ah-mazing.

tenoverthenose

There is no one right way to light that scene. Just looking at it I can think of about 4 or 5 things I might try. So here's my crappy answer: it all depends on what you see in your head when you look at the wall. One you answer that really difficult questions, then light it to match.

divamum

So... care to share a couple of the 4 or 5 things you might try?

tenoverthenose

Here's where my mind started...

1. Couple/bride against wall. Hard gridded light at them for super drama. Rake across wall as desired.
2. Couple/bride against wall. Natural light.
3. Couple/bride against wall. Boomed barelight light overhead for a "streetlamp" look. Probably need to zoom in flash head. Rake across wall as desired.
4. Couple/bride away from wall. Umbrella light to side. Adjust distance between couple/wall to get desired falloff.
5. Couple/bride away from wall. (about 10-15 feet) embracing. Wide shot, barebulb light on stand right behind couple (hidden from camera) blasting wall. Instant silhouette. Maybe this might be better if lit the wall from the side for more drama & flagged the couple to keep the silhouette.
6. Couple/bride away from wall. Meter a stop under ambient and back light the couple.

divamum

And this is why you are brilliant

THANK YOU!!!!

Oh, one other question (sorry to keep asking, but I really and truly DO appreciate the input more than you can know!): what do you mean by "rake across the wall"?

tenoverthenose

No worries, glad to help. To me lighting is a personal decision, much like composition. How someone else might choose to light the situation maybe very very different that what I would do and vice versa.

When I say rake across the wall, I mean to feather the light. All of the above situations were done with one light (I work with one light most of the time, it's twice as fast as two!). If you plan on lighting the couple with one light, you will have plenty of falloff from that light spilling all over the scene. By putting the light close to the wall and pointing it at the couple you will be able to not only light the couple but also the portion of the wall that the light hits. The angle that you have between the wall and the light as it points to the couple will dictate how much of the wall is lit - as you point the light away from the wall, it has less and less light hitting it from your flash.

Here's an example - bride on a wall, gridded light up an camera left.

nightpixels

tenoverthenose wrote: »

No worries, glad to help. To me lighting is a personal decision, much like composition. How someone else might choose to light the situation maybe very very different that what I would do and vice versa.

When I say rake across the wall, I mean to feather the light. All of the above situations were done with one light (I work with one light most of the time, it's twice as fast as two!). If you plan on lighting the couple with one light, you will have plenty of falloff from that light spilling all over the scene. By putting the light close to the wall and pointing it at the couple you will be able to not only light the couple but also the portion of the wall that the light hits. The angle that you have between the wall and the light as it points to the couple will dictate how much of the wall is lit - as you point the light away from the wall, it has less and less light hitting it from your flash.

Here's an example - bride on a wall, gridded light up an camera left.

I like this shot a lot. Which grid do you use? Do you use it on your off-camera flash or you carry a strobe with you? Do you soften the light through the grid at all or it is all hard concentrated light? I was looking into getting one because I love the dramatic result it produces. I found this one:

http://www.garyfongestore.com/lightsphere-universal-powersnoot.html

What do you think? Do you have any experience with Gary Fong's products?

divamum

Thanks Pat, that helps a lot. I think in my mind's eye - heavily influenced by that shot of Jeff's (found here) - I was thinking of softer rather than harderlight, but you've given me another concept to to play with, which is just what I was hoping for! Thanks so much.

Keep those ideas coming, folks - I need all the help I can get! This whole shoot is definitely another step outside my (small) comfort zone, so all suggestions warmly welcomed

tenoverthenose

nightpixels wrote: »

I like this shot a lot. Which grid do you use? Do you use it on your off-camera flash or you carry a strobe with you? Do you soften the light through the grid at all or it is all hard concentrated light? I was looking into getting one because I love the dramatic result it produces. I found this one:

http://www.garyfongestore.com/lightsphere-universal-powersnoot.html

What do you think? Do you have any experience with Gary Fong's products?

Hi Allen,

I haven't seen that particular Gary Fong devices, but I've modified my lightsphere long ago to match that. I took my old lightsphere (once I realized I would never use it again) and spray painted the thing black. Then you can just bungie cord any old strobe grid to the front. It has a very nice even falloff - which is why I prefer a grid to a snoot. Here's a link to the ones I use. They are much smaller (I carry two in my pockets on all shoots) and are sure quick to use.

Light is light, no matter if it comes from a hotshoe flash or a strobe. Sometime I use a flash, sometimes a strobe - it depends on the need. I think I used a gridded beauty dish for this shot. It's up to you if you want to use a larger light source or not, it just depends on the look you are going for.

Honl Photo Grids

Madeleine - to do something like that shot of Jeff's I would just use natural light and bump the contrast in post as needed. Way easier & quicker (plus less to carry!). Soft light needs large light sources. For lighting something that big, your 42" umbrella is going to get small pretty quick.

divamum

Thanks to BradfordBenn recommending The Photographer's Ephemeris , I now can see where the light will (more or less) be coming from - I think the buildings will block most of it, but even so - this is a cool piece of software! (See thread in People for deets)

Llywellyn

Hey D, a brilliant outdoor lighting trick I learned from Syl Arena and Joe McNally themselves is the "softbox on a stick." I can bring my modded paint pole and softbox (slightly less of a windsail than an umbrella) and we can mount one of your flashes to it. I can also bring my small grids to change things up. This would give us the versatility of a boom without the hassle.

Also, my Nikon SB-800 can be used as a third light outdoors if we need it. I know you shoot Canon, but I can set the Nikon flash to optical slave mode. It actually picks up flash keenly well, even outdoors.

For that location, just do what Patrick says.

divamum

w0000000t Kerry! Emphatic to all of the above. Excellent! (our biggest hassle is going to be hauling all this stuff around in an urban environment - I'm going to see if I can find a wheelie crate tomorrow, in fact, so at least we can drag it rather than carry it). I'll also bring my small SB, and I think maybe I"ll bring the 45" softliter - if we put the diffuser on it will help minimize the Mary Poppins flying-umbrella effect a bit too, perhaps (hadn't thought about that - excellent point, especially down by the water )

I'm so incredibly lucky here at dgrin - my only other e-shoot I had Blurmore handholding and giving me tons of advice (for which renewed thinks - you helped A LOT even if the couple's constant changing of times made it impossible for me to accept your generous offer to come on the day!) and this time Kerry's coming along to help me out.

BradfordBenn

divamum wrote: »

I'm going to see if I can find a wheelie crate tomorrow, in fact, so at least we can drag it rather than carry it).

Brad's tip on multiuse and cost savings. I have found myself traveling with toolboxes and equipment and stuff for work that if I was to get a proper travel case for would be way too difficult and ex$pen$ive. Instead what I have been using is huge luggage with wheels.

Also work has picked up a folding hand truck very similar to this one http://www.handtrucksrus.com/crashdetail.aspx?id=461 that has helped an awful lot at tradeshows.

Good luck

divamum

I have a small wheelie suitcase I use as my "take all gear with me" bag (it's great, actually - it's a carry-on laptop-overnight bag) but it won't take umbrellas or other long bits and pieces. I'm considering checking out my local dollar store later today for one of those old-lady shopping carts - it would be deep enough for brollies, but still take bits and pieces, too! We'll see if that works out....

Dan7312

This http://www.amazon.com/Tipke-2100-Marine-Fold--Utility/dp/B00006LPPJ/ref=sr_1_6?s=garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1290810317&sr=1-6 folds up flat and fits in most trunks. Don't have one but an artist that travels around to summer art shows showed one to me and she told me it was the best thing she ever had for schlepping struff from her car to her booth.

Just as a price marker Amazon has a simple wire cart for $50

http://www.amazon.com/WHT-Helpers-39610-Swiveler-Four-Wheeled/dp/B0000CFGLP/ref=sr_1_9?s=garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1290810317&sr=1-9

divamum wrote: »

I have a small wheelie suitcase I use as my "take all gear with me" bag (it's great, actually - it's a carry-on laptop-overnight bag) but it won't take umbrellas or other long bits and pieces. I'm considering checking out my local dollar store later today for one of those old-lady shopping carts - it would be deep enough for brollies, but still take bits and pieces, too! We'll see if that works out....

divamum

And... my fabulous dollar store came up trumps for me yet again: $15 got me something very similar to this, except with a flap top (that will fit around odd-shaped items):

http://www.amazon.com/Metro-Insulated-Folding-Trolley-Beige/dp/B000NUWCS0/ref=sr_1_2?s=home-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1290818162&sr=1-2

It will do very nicely for umbrellas, tripod and lightstand both now and in the future.

tenoverthenose

Nice find! Something else that I have seen photogs use is an old golf bag, preferably with wheels.

BradfordBenn

Wait up you have kids.... make them earn their keep (that is a joke)

divamum

BradfordBenn wrote: »

Wait up you have kids.... make them earn their keep (that is a joke)

Yeah, I have been known to do that on occasion. Sadly, this shoot is a freebie for a friend, so I can't really justify paying the child ... and she's made it clear she doesn't really work exclusively for mommy-bonding-time any more!!!!

The lovely Llywellyn will be with me, though, thank goodness. I'm WAY outside my comfort zone on this and nervous as anything, but I'm hoping that I've prepped the best I can and so at this point should just get out there, try to remember the things I know, and have some FUN. We'll see... ~crosses fingers and other limbs~

aktse

divamum wrote: »

The lovely Llywellyn will be with me, though, thank goodness. I'm WAY outside my comfort zone on this and nervous as anything, but I'm hoping that I've prepped the best I can and so at this point should just get out there, try to remember the things I know, and have some FUN. We'll see... ~crosses fingers and other limbs~

Kerry will be with you?!??? Lucky duck! She's awesome and I miss shooting with her!

And I know that you'll do well with shoot! Lucky isn't needed when you have skill!

Have fun!

Llywellyn

aktse wrote: »

Kerry will be with you?!??? Lucky duck! She's awesome and I miss shooting with her!

Aw, the feeling's mutual! I was hoping to be out your way in February, but that looks like it will be canceled. Hopefully I'll get another opportunity soon!

I'm all packed with batteries charged and memory cards emptied, paint pole and softbox by the door. Let's rock this, diva!

BradfordBenn

Llywellyn wrote: »

I'm all packed with batteries charged and memory cards emptied, paint pole and softbox by the door. Let's rock this, diva!

Polaroid? I crack myself up

divamum

BWAH!

Kerry, bless her wonderful, talented, thoughtful, helpful, brilliant self, had everything she needed and had intended to bring.

Yours truly turned up - having checked, re-checked, re-re-re-checked her bags last night and this morning a zillion times - to discover... no lightstand. I couldn't BELIEVE IT! Fortunately, I DID have my superclamp (amazing what you can do with that clipped to the handle of a shoppping bag ~whistles~) and Kerry had her Amazing Lighting Pole (I'll let her explain!) and so it was totally manageable, but geez what a doofus I am. (t was only when I got home just now that I realised what had happened and why it wasn't there: hubby'd tripped on the bit sticking out and it had been moved to avoid further accident, which I hadn't realised, but sheesh :bash)

On a plus note, the old-lady shopping cart is a major WIN (sorry Richy, no balls of string yet, but give me time .

Just uploading the shots to the hard-drive while thawing out - it wasn't that cold, but with the wind off the harbour we were all absolutely chilled by the time we finished! I was convinced I had nothing but rubbish, but the first uploads are actually looking like there's some decent stuff in there :whew.

More in a bit... and, as ever, thanks for all the advice and encouragement!

Llywellyn

BradfordBenn wrote: »

Polaroid? I crack myself up

You know, I did almost bring it along... (I recently adopted his old Polaroid camera, for those wondering what the devil we're on about.)

I instead focused on practicing getting the flare I've so long admired but never quite managed to get right. Diva thankfully let me practice in between light and reflector holding.

Llywellyn

Oh, and Amazing Light Pole.

divamum

Wahhhhhh! All excited to share (and could use advice on processing) but internet down - until Comcast gets its act together I can't upload (this from phone).

More later, I hope....!