Anybody do School Portraits?

jmphotocraft

I've been doing youth sports where things are less formal and the coupon model through SmugMug worked pretty well. A number of parents approached me, begging me to do the school portraits because they didn't like the existing service. So now I'm thinking about this more seriously. But as far as I can tell, school portraits = PREPAID PACKAGES. Which of course, SM doesn't exactly do. So, if you do school portraits, how do you handle the orders, the money, and the fulfillment?

Thanks!

GerryDavid

Ive been reading some photographers marketing books, and school pictures are HUGE! A contract can bring you in $250,000 or so for a few months work. They books also say its very cut throat to get the contracts, bribes are usually involved, aka kickbacks to the school, usually you have to show up to x number of special events to photograph, like ball games. And usually the existing photographer has their foot wedged in there and is hard to get removed.

Ive thought about trying to get into this, but I dont like the assembly line aspect of it. taking 30 seconds to a minute with each kid, take their pic regardless if its quality or not and move onto the next one.

Had I been thinking a couple of years ago, I could have talked to the new Christian school to see if they had a photographer yet. Because its a private school, you don't have to get the contract for the entire county, just the one school, and possibly work out a deal to get more time in the school to do the job right.

NostalgicDad

I've shot action for a HS swim team the past few years. Last year they approached me about doing their team/individual portraits since they were unhappy with the existing photographer. I decided to do it and also did it again this year (2 months ago). I do the shoot on location at their natatorium and set up my studio lights and backdrop for the individuals. It takes roughly half a day to get all the students done based on their schedules. I doubt that I do it next year however.

I set up my galleries of varsity, jv, divers, coaches, and outtakes. A link is sent to all of the parents via email along with a flier given out by the coach. I also set up an Event for the galleries so people can take advantage of tagging, etc. Pricing is a la carte and I configure packages specific for this type of shoot. The pricing is quite reasonable in my opinion. Orders are placed as any other print order and fulfilled through SM.

I receive tons of feedback from the parents and coaches about how much they like the quality and how satisfied they are. But, out of about 64 families, there were 20 orders last year and only 10 orders this year so far. Doing it this way is simply not worth it to me. At least in my area, parents are hit from all angles with different school portraits among other money raising efforts from the school. My only assumption is that there is simply not enough interest and if I set up prepaid packages, the results would be the same......not enough orders to justify my time/effort.

I'm not clear by your post if you are being asked to just do a team or the entire school. Of course my scenario wouldn't apply to the latter but maybe my experience with a similar sports team situation can shed some light for you.

jmphotocraft

Gerry, I hear you about the assembly line aspect of the job, and that is a mild turn-off for me as well, which is why I hadn't bothered to even think about it until people started asking me. But now that I am thinking about it, it seems like printing money! I already have a foothold as the official town baseball and soccer photog, so this could be very organic for me. My son is in 2nd grade now and since he was in Kindergarten the job has been done by two different large agencies, so it doesn't sound like any one photog is entrenched in the job. Hmmmmmmmmm...!

jmphotocraft

Danny, I've just been asked by a handful of my soccer and baseball parents if I would consider doing the school portraits because they didn't like the existing ones. Sounds like you are using the classic SmugMug business model of shoot-upload-email-pray for sales! I've been doing this for baseball and soccer because it is a labor of love and I regard it as a self-supporting hobby, but your results are similar to mine - about a 33% close rate. No matter how good the pictures are and no matter how many gushing compliments I get and no matter what incentives I give via expiring coupons, etc, I'll make about $120 per team. Multiplied by 50 teams it's a nice chunk of change at the end of the season, but it's not a way to make a living, and barely enough to keep my attention as a hobby. So for school portraits, which I imagine are pretty boring and tedious to do, I'd want to make some more serious bread. I think prepaid packages are the way to accomplish this.

GerryDavid

Its been my experience that people spend way more if you do sales in person than rely on a website. Its more time consumptive but its worth it in the end. That has been my experience with the ballet and gymnastic portraits ive done. I suspect some just want to do it online so they can just save the files, even with the ugly watermarks. But that will be a bit harder to do with school pictures since the parents are not there. Presold packages are probably the way to go. Around here the school photographer doesnt even let you choose the picture you get.

NostalgicDad

jmphotocraft wrote: »

Danny, I've just been asked by a handful of my soccer and baseball parents if I would consider doing the school portraits because they didn't like the existing ones. Sounds like you are using the classic SmugMug business model of shoot-upload-email-pray for sales! I've been doing this for baseball and soccer because it is a labor of love and I regard it as a self-supporting hobby, but your results are similar to mine - about a 33% close rate. No matter how good the pictures are and no matter how many gushing compliments I get and no matter what incentives I give via expiring coupons, etc, I'll make about $120 per team. Multiplied by 50 teams it's a nice chunk of change at the end of the season, but it's not a way to make a living, and barely enough to keep my attention as a hobby. So for school portraits, which I imagine are pretty boring and tedious to do, I'd want to make some more serious bread. I think prepaid packages are the way to accomplish this.

I agree wholeheartedly with you on the pre-paid route. And, your situation is quite similar to mine as I have been a booster parent for the swim team and became their official photog 3 years ago. Since it's a labor of love for me as well, I have simply donated my services for the swim meet so the kids can have some decent pictures. The prints are priced at my cost so I don't make anything from the meets. I do shoot all sorts of sporting events on the pro side of my biz but the swim meets have been my volunteer contribution over the years.

I also forgot to mention that I have given 10-20% of my profits to the booster club from the portrait sales but that hasn't seemed to matter much either. The portrait sales have resulted in only about $300 on average. It's surprising to me also based on the fact of the extremely affluent area most of the students are from.

GerryDavid

NostalgicDad wrote: »

I agree wholeheartedly with you on the pre-paid route. And, your situation is quite similar to mine as I have been a booster parent for the swim team and became their official photog 3 years ago. Since it's a labor of love for me as well, I have simply donated my services for the swim meet so the kids can have some decent pictures. The prints are priced at my cost so I don't make anything from the meets. I do shoot all sorts of sporting events on the pro side of my biz but the swim meets have been my volunteer contribution over the years.

I also forgot to mention that I have given 10-20% of my profits to the booster club from the portrait sales but that hasn't seemed to matter much either. The portrait sales have resulted in only about $300 on average. It's surprising to me also based on the fact of the extremely affluent area most of the students are from.

Going a bit off topic, but if people are willing to pay for the pictures, why are you doing them for almost free *charging actual print pricing*. Isnt this just bringing down the value of photography?

NostalgicDad

GerryDavid wrote: »

Going a bit off topic, but if people are willing to pay for the pictures, why are you doing them for almost free *charging actual print pricing*. Isnt this just bringing down the value of photography?

Please do stay on topic and I just knew someone would ask this question as soon as I typed it. I certainly thought I provided enough information to avoid this type of response and I apologize in advance to the OP for my ensuing attempt at an explanation.

Believe me Gerry.....I am one of the biggest proponents of charging for my services which I value tremendously and charge for it accordingly. I am continuously battling this topic in my local community and have called out other photographers for doing exactly what you are accusing me of. But, don't you think there just might be a time in our lives where you would provide your services for an organization that would benefit from such. Please note that I mentioned "VOLUNTEERING" my services......not giving them away. A huge difference. Giving away your photographic services/prints absolutely affects the photographic community and devalues the market. I personally despise it when I see this happening. But, this is not one of those situations and please do not make it into one. It is a HS swim meet for the kids who would otherwise have no decent pictures of their swim meets. Why do you think I DO charge for the team/individual portraits?? It's because that is an industry standard and I refuse to lowball or undercut any other area photographers in my area. I hate to sound harsh in my reply Gerry, but you touched a nerve and one that is ever-present on my mind on a daily basis.

jmphotocraft

Danny, you should definitely charge something for your efforts. Give the team/league a kickback if it will make you feel better. I live in a pretty affluent town too. I charge $2.95 for a 4x6, $5.95 for a 5x7, etc up the line. I've never had any complaints about prices and people thank me profusely for doing it - otherwise they'd have no quality pics of their kids playing sports. I live in a fairly affluent town as well (suburb of Portland). Think about it, these people pay $15/hr for babysitters, $20 for a bottle of wine, they can cough up $20-$50 for priceless photos of their kids taken by my $4500 camera+lens.

NostalgicDad

jmphotocraft wrote: »

Danny, you should definitely charge something for your efforts. Give the team/league a kickback if it will make you feel better. I live in a pretty affluent town too. I charge $2.95 for a 4x6, $5.95 for a 5x7, etc up the line. I've never had any complaints about prices and people thank me profusely for doing it - otherwise they'd have no quality pics of their kids playing sports. I live in a fairly affluent town as well (suburb of Portland). Think about it, these people pay $15/hr for babysitters, $20 for a bottle of wine, they can cough up $20-$50 for priceless photos of their kids taken by my $4500 camera+lens.

Jack.....I also stated that I do in fact give back to the team in the amount of 10-20% each year from the portrait sessions. You mentioned that it is a "labor of love" for you. I thought the definition of that meant doing something voluntarily and without compensation. Seeing your prices such as $5.95 for a 5x7 actually makes me scoff. I don't even offer 4x6 prints for portraits and my 5x7's start at $10, 8x10's at $16, and so on and that being on top of my session/event fees. It's important to be clear and to keep separate in this discussion my volunteering at the swim meets vs. the portrait sessions. I will just state once more that there is an appropriate time to volunteer your services, even (heavens forbid), in the world of photography. I'm not sure why that point gets missed here. I do charge all other organizations I shoot for.

I understand completely what you are trying to say but I will not get into a lengthy discussion regarding this since there will be no resolve in a forum thread with regards to our differing situations. I'll save my arguments for this sort of topic over on http://www.shakodo.com.

Hopefully my original post regarding your question about shooting portraits for a team and using SM shed a little light from another's perspective.

GerryDavid

NostalgicDad wrote: »

Please do stay on topic and I just knew someone would ask this question as soon as I typed it. I certainly thought I provided enough information to avoid this type of response and I apologize in advance to the OP for my ensuing attempt at an explanation.

Believe me Gerry.....I am one of the biggest proponents of charging for my services which I value tremendously and charge for it accordingly. I am continuously battling this topic in my local community and have called out other photographers for doing exactly what you are accusing me of. But, don't you think there just might be a time in our lives where you would provide your services for an organization that would benefit from such. Please note that I mentioned "VOLUNTEERING" my services......not giving them away. A huge difference. Giving away your photographic services/prints absolutely affects the photographic community and devalues the market. I personally despise it when I see this happening. But, this is not one of those situations and please do not make it into one. It is a HS swim meet for the kids who would otherwise have no decent pictures of their swim meets. Why do you think I DO charge for the team/individual portraits?? It's because that is an industry standard and I refuse to lowball or undercut any other area photographers in my area. I hate to sound harsh in my reply Gerry, but you touched a nerve and one that is ever-present on my mind on a daily basis.

I can understanding volunteering your time for an animal shelter, or some other institution that is underfunded, that can either raise funds for them, or help them out for something they cant afford. But why does the swimteam need free pictures? The only ones benefiting from that are the parents, and from what you said the town is well off, so it sounds like the majority of the parents can afford the prints. I can understand doing a "special" for the parents that are not well off, ive done that in the past. Or charging full rate and giving 100% of the sales to the swimteam if they are being underfunded. Im just trying to understand why to do it for free so well off parents dont have to pay for pictures.

Of course part of this is because I lost a cheerleading contract *grade 9 to 11* to some parent with a camera that offered to to the pictures for free and sell prints at cost from walmart.

freelancephoto

I think what some full time photographers just can't understand, is that the world of charging a kings ransom for prints has ceased to exist. Everyone has a digital camera including parents, and with that comes the thought of "why pay for what I can do for free myself?"

I'll agree, most parents won't produce the same quality image as a pro or enthusiast, but a price on quality is not something always seen by the client when comparing theirs and the pro's side by side. In addition, many people who buy at the lowball pricepoint, wouldn't even think of buying if the prices were any higher. It may be something old school pro's don't like to hear, but, with the utmost respect, it is the way things are and it will only become more common place as time goes on.

ColoradoSkier

Not much to add except that pre-pay always outperform online ordering for the sports and group portraits I do.

Sent from my Droid Incredible with Tapatalk

jmphotocraft

freelancephoto wrote: »

I think what some full time photographers just can't understand, is that the world of charging a kings ransom for prints has ceased to exist. Everyone has a digital camera including parents, and with that comes the thought of "why pay for what I can do for free myself?"

If you can't take a DSLR and create images which do not distinguish themselves against point-n-shoots or cell phones, then I agree, you won't be in business for long.

For a little while there, yes, point-n-shoots were killing professionals. A lot of people had them and took them everywhere and used them all the time and got pretty decent results that satisfied their need for photos of some quality. But now, the smartphones are replacing point-n-shoots, and the results are usually garbage (I base that on the sorry excuses for photos I typically see people posting on facebook). But the convenience is too great to not use them. People now use their phone like a point-n-shoot, and their point-n-shoot like a film SLR - only on special occasions. People are being conditioned to accept poor and mediocre quality as good enough and normal. So now when people see a well focused, well stopped, well composed, well lit photo with less-than-infinite DOF, it blows them away, and they think it's magic.

I'll agree, most parents won't produce the same quality image as a pro or enthusiast, but a price on quality is not something always seen by the client when comparing theirs and the pro's side by side. In addition, many people who buy at the lowball pricepoint, wouldn't even think of buying if the prices were any higher. It may be something old school pro's don't like to hear, but, with the utmost respect, it is the way things are and it will only become more common place as time goes on.

I agree that sometimes simply taking a photo with a DSLR isn't enough, and then you have to put yourself in a position to capture photos that the parent cannot take themself. That is when gaining special access to he sidelines of sports, or shooting school portraits with a backdrop and softboxes comes in.

One ridiculously simple thing you can do to set your youth sports photos apart from the parent-with-camera is shoot from a kneeling position. It makes the kids look like pros!

haring

jmphotocraft wrote: »

If you can't take a DSLR and create images which do not distinguish themselves against point-n-shoots or cell phones, then I agree, you won't be in business for long.

For a little while there, yes, point-n-shoots were killing professionals. A lot of people had them and took them everywhere and used them all the time and got pretty decent results that satisfied their need for photos of some quality. But now, the smartphones are replacing point-n-shoots, and the results are usually garbage (I base that on the sorry excuses for photos I typically see people posting on facebook). But the convenience is too great to not use them. People now use their phone like a point-n-shoot, and their point-n-shoot like a film SLR - only on special occasions. People are being conditioned to accept poor and mediocre quality as good enough and normal. So now when people see a well focused, well stopped, well composed, well lit photo with less-than-infinite DOF, it blows them away, and they think it's magic.



I agree that sometimes simply taking a photo with a DSLR isn't enough, and then you have to put yourself in a position to capture photos that the parent cannot take themself. That is when gaining special access to he sidelines of sports, or shooting school portraits with a backdrop and softboxes comes in.

One ridiculously simple thing you can do to set your youth sports photos apart from the parent-with-camera is shoot from a kneeling position. It makes the kids look like pros!

... it did! good job!

jmphotocraft

thank you!