Best Lens for family shoot?

TenThirteen

Ok, so SOMEHOW :dunno I got roped into shooting last minute Christmas Card photos for my Boss this Saturday. ACK!

Obviously I want these to come out great, so I am looking for advise on what to use as a main lens. I have a great shop out here that I can rent anything from, very reasonably, so if I need to rent a lens I am totally game for that.

I have a T2i, kit lens, a nifty fifty, 70-200 zoom, and a 10-20 wide angle.

They are all on the short side, father, mother, 9 yo boy, 7yo girl, 6 month old baby girl.

The shoot is at a local park, 3PM, I will have a reflector but no off camera flash (I guess I could rent a speedlight if you think I need it? I do have light stands and umbrellas)

HALP!!!!

WillCAD

I'm not a lens expert, but the first thing I thought about when I read your post was the sun.

3pm this time of year in Arizona will mean the sun is low enough to cause all sorts of problems for you. You may get very deep shadows, or it could hit your subjects right in the face and cause uncontrolable squinting, or you might wind up in a backlit situation, or the color may turn your subjects a deep orange or blood red; it all depends on the surroundings. And given that you'll need some set up and instruction time, you may not actually snap a pic till 3:30; by that time, the sun is moving FAST and lighting conditions change from minute-to-minute.

Rent the speedlight, definitely. No matter what the situation, a powerful flash unit to use as fill lighting is useful in most outdoor portrait situations.

Your reflector could come in handy, too. Any additional directed light source can be used as fill lighting; the hard part is setting the thing up and aligning it properly without an assistant. You better take your tripod, too, to hold your camera in a consistant position while you adjust your lighting and your subjects.

You should scout the lcoation at 3pm today or tomorrow to get a better idea of your lighting needs. Take your camera and make a few test shots; that may help you with lens selection, too. If you have a friend whom you can rope into going with you, take them, so you'll have a person in your test shots. Since you're shooting for your boss, you shouldn't have too much trouble getting a little time off in the middle of the day for the scouting mission. Heck, he might even let you stay onthe clock!

If the sun at that time of day is just way too unusable, try to reschedule for earlier in the day, or Sunday, or next week.

As to the lens, just take all three. You never know when you might want to shoot something different than what you planned - flexibility is everything! Take your entire camera bag with you.

divamum

Sounds like the thing you're most going to need is an assistant! Both to help wrangle the kids, and to hold the reflector. If it's a bright day, the reflector will probably be plenty if you shoot in open shade and bounce it back onto them; if it's predicted for overcast (does it get overcast in AZ?!), you may find you need a flash more to fill.

Sounds to me like the lenses you have are pretty suited for the shoot - since you'll be outside you can back way up to use the long zoom if you want and benefit from the separation/compression/boken those fl's give. What else did you have in mind? I now a lot of people rate the 17-55is very highly, so that might be something to consider for wider shots if you really feel you're going to need it, but with the fast 50 you and lots of space you may not need it. Have a look at kidzmom's shots for the kind of gorgeous work you can do with that lens!

TenThirteen

I've already promised my fiance a steak dinner if he helps, so I will have an assistant :-)

The park we are going to do it in actually has a lot of great places in the shade to work with, and thank god the kids are all really well behaved.

divamum

WillCAD wrote: »

3pm this time of year in Arizona will mean the sun is low enough to cause all sorts of problems for you. You may get very deep shadows, or it could hit your subjects right in the face and cause uncontrolable squinting, or you might wind up in a backlit situation, or the color may turn your subjects a deep orange or blood red; it all depends on the surroundings. And given that you'll need some set up and instruction time, you may not actually snap a pic till 3:30; by that time, the sun is moving FAST and lighting conditions change from minute-to-minute.

But overhead bright sun will always cause more problems, surely - don't we want it lower in the sky?

Granted, I'm not in AZ, but I just did a 2p-5p shoot on a very bright sunny day on the east coast and the light was GORGEOUS. It did vary throughout the afternoon and I did need all the lighting modifiers and enhancers I had with me (including off-camera flash), but it was pretty wonderful to shoot in:

With reflector


With fill flash




Sunlight

WillCAD

divamum wrote: »

But overhead bright sun will always cause more problems, surely - don't we want it lower in the sky?

Granted, I'm not in AZ, but I just did a 2p-5p shoot on a very bright sunny day on the east coast and the light was GORGEOUS. It did vary throughout the afternoon and I did need all the lighting modifiers and enhancers I had with me (including off-camera flash), but it was pretty wonderful to shoot in:

Well, every situation is unique, of course, but the thing that stands out to me is the possibility of harsh shadows from the sun being so low in the sky.

In 2 of your 5 examples (all great shots, by the way), the sun was not shining directly on the subjects; in #1 and #3 they were in the shade and you used supplemental illumination, so the sun was fairly superfluous. In #2 it wasn't hitting them harshly. And in #4 and #5 you used the sun artistically to create lens flares.

But we're talking about Christmas card photos, not engagement photos, and lens flares are unlikely to be appropriate. They might be, but then again they might not.

I guess it all depends on the actual setting, and the direction of the shot, and whether there are trees or building nearby to create shadows and reflections... There are a lot of variables. It just seems to me that the low angle of the sun later in the afternoon wouldn't make for the easiest shooting environment, nor would it be terribly appropriate for Christmas card photos.

But who knows? Maybe that's what the client wants, and I'm way off base.

divamum

Fair points about it being totally different styles, Will - absolutely. (and thanks for the kind words!)

I guess I've just had the "shoot late or early for best light" thing beaten into me so much that it's almost a mantra! I'd have thought that open shade would be the best for this kind of shoot regardless of the time of day, but later wouldn't it be a case of the shadows being *longer* rather than harsher? (I'm not arguing here, just trying to figure this out in my own mind for future reference for myself). I do know from experience that shooting earlier in the day when the sun is higher tends to lead to "raccoon eyes" unless there's a way of adding some kind of fill from below (which could be as simple as some lighter coloured pavement or a sheet on the ground, I suppose).

Where's Trudy/VacayMom? She lives down that way and I'm sure would have good thoughts about the light - maybe she'll see this and chime in?

tomnovy

Well I give you a comment as well:
The best lens for portrait photography is the Canon 85mm f1.2 L - it is my fav of all lenses.

TenThirteen

Tomnovy - That is for sure my next investment, everyone from portrait to wedding photographers rave about that lens :-)

TenThirteen

Here is a random shot from this afternoon. That family was adorable, and they ended up showing up pretty late, so this wasn't taken til around 4PM. By the time we were done it was well into Sunset...

WillCAD

I looked at the whole gallery. Overall, it's a pretty nice shoot, though the shadows were getting fairly deep by then. You definitely could have used a speedlight for fill-in flash on this shoot, as a few of them have uneven shadows to one side of the face or another. Clients are unlikely to notice that, though; the only reason I noticed it was that I've been surfing the Dgrin boards long enough to have some of that armchair quarterback mentality soak in.

My favorite shot is #9. Beautifully framed, classic kid pic, suitable for use in the clients' Christmas cards, or in your advertising. The open area to the left begs for a Christmas greeting, or your logo and info.

On some of your portrait shots, I see some vignetting, but only on the bottom corners. It's most noticeable on frame #10 and #11. Were you using a teleconverter, or an aftermarket lens hood, or some kind of lens filter? It's a little weird that I can see it most strongly on the portrait shots, and hardly at all on the landscape shots. A white vignette filter in Photoshop will cover it up and probably look good for a Christmas card. A Christmas style frame, like holly or pine garland or lights, would also work.

I really like the boket on most of them. Nice use of narrow DOF, something I'm trying (mostly unsuccessfully) to learn how to do myself.

I'm curious as to why the whole family is dressed in blacks, grays, and dark blues. Makes for a nice, matched set of portraits, but you said that they were going to use these shots for their Christmas cards, so I would have thought they'd dress in more reds and greens, if not actual Christmas-themed clothing like candy-cane sweaters, Santa hats, elf ears, reindeer antlers, etc. But that's on them, not on you, and the choice does make the pics useful as general, non-seasonal family portraits, which might be their reasoning. Still, the dark colors make them look like they're dressed for a funeral, not for a Christmas party.

That's a pretty park, too. Can you provide a link to show where it is? I love looking at online maps of places I've never been. Weird, but I love it anyway.

divamum

Thanks to Will pointing out you could get to it, I had a look at the gallery too Have you dodged and burned yet? If not, then I think it's worth having a crack at lifting the brightness on their faces in some of the darker shots. If you have PS, do it on separate layers there (I think that results in less noise than the dodge brush in LR - ymmv). I usually make the layer, delete the automatically applied "white" mask and then add (alt+mask on the layers palette) a "black" mask so I can paint in the adjustment just where I need it. It's great for things like faces since I can really control exactly where it goes and adjust the opacity accordingly.

You got some cute shots - now you just need Santa to bring you a flash!!!

TenThirteen

Wow, thanks for all the in depth comments guys!

Will- I did have an aftermarket lens hood on, and realized I didn't need it and took it off. As to their outfits, While they are going to use these this year for Christmas, they also have never had family portraits done ever! It's a shame! So I think they dressed to have these as more versatile than for just Christmas. Also, both Mom and Dad made a point of mentioning that they really liked the look of photos with burned/darkened edges, so I am trying to keep that in mind without overdoing it.

Diva- These are just the first few shots I put up so they could see a basic idea, but I didn't really have time last night to do a lot of editing. I will certainly try to work on their facial lighting more :-)

Overall, just looking at the RAW files, I think I have a lot more good shots to work with. This was only my second family portrait session, and IMHO I think my first one was a disaster, so this one is making me feel just a little better, lol.

TenThirteen

Oh - and here's a link to the park Will. Thanks to VayCayMom for the assist! ;-)

http://www.riparianinstitute.org/default.cfm

divamum

I just played around with a contrast layer selectively applied (in screen or normal mode) in PS on your shot above (I can post it if you want - just say) and the faces brightened up very nicely. I'd probably clone out whatever is in the upper right corner, too

Btw, while it's entirely manageable "manually", I was thrilled to note that the TRA actions I treated myself to during the Black Friday sale have two different ones to dodge/burn and lighten/darken - as I say, it's entirely possible to do the same thing manually quite easily, but the actions are timesavers If you happen to have the TRA actions, check out lights on/lights out and yin/yan.

Post the set when you get 'em done!

tomnovy

Now if you want to do it the PRO way - I mean the Dodge and Burn. Create a new layer in PS fill it with 50% of gray colour. Change the blending mode to soft light and use a brush (i use usually 10% opacity) and use white color to dodge and black color to burn. It is an amazing method and it kills all the other destructive methodes. Heheh I hope I did not offend anyone with that PRO expression If you need in depth tutorial for D&B then write me, maybe I can write it on my blog with some screenshots.

Best regards,

divamum

^^ I learned that method for skin dodging and burning from the Lee Varis book - he recommends it for minimizing wrinkles - and it is indeed amazing! Haven't tried it on larger areas yet, but I'm sure it's fabu

tomnovy

Great idea, but for me the method I was talking about works great for me and the portrait photography especially because it does not make the skin hmmmmm yellow, like some other methods do.

zoomer

Nice shot. Crop some of the bright area off the left. Darken the outer borders of the photo, effectively brightens the subjects.
Be very careful if you try dodging faces they wash out quickly.
Don't overdo the teeth and eyes, it is obvious if you do. Leave them alone is your best bet.
Not a bad photo at all, I like it, besides a few technical issues .

VayCayMom

TenThirteen wrote: »

Oh - and here's a link to the park Will. Thanks to VayCayMom for the assist! ;-)

http://www.riparianinstitute.org/default.cfm

hehee by the way if you shot with NIKON I know someone who might have loaned a lens to you,,,,, sorry had to rub it in, I am going to check out the gallery, I knew that location looked familiar. You can borrow a reflector from me, honestly I have been using mine a lot !

VayCayMom

TenThirteen wrote: »

Wow, thanks for all the in depth comments guys!

Will- I did have an aftermarket lens hood on, and realized I didn't need it and took it off. As to their outfits, While they are going to use these this year for Christmas, they also have never had family portraits done ever! It's a shame! So I think they dressed to have these as more versatile than for just Christmas. Also, both Mom and Dad made a point of mentioning that they really liked the look of photos with burned/darkened edges, so I am trying to keep that in mind without overdoing it.

Diva- These are just the first few shots I put up so they could see a basic idea, but I didn't really have time last night to do a lot of editing. I will certainly try to work on their facial lighting more :-)

Overall, just looking at the RAW files, I think I have a lot more good shots to work with. This was only my second family portrait session, and IMHO I think my first one was a disaster, so this one is making me feel just a little better, lol.

where is the link to the gallery?

WillCAD

VayCayMom wrote: »

where is the link to the gallery?

Click the sample pic that she posted and it will take you to the gallery.