Time limit on family shots?

trevorb

Does anybody give a time limit for family shots in their contract? My last wedding I was taking family pics for what felt like 40 minutes. I had someone directing and moving people through, I was taking one shot after another, they just wanted so many variations. I have thought of putting in my contract that I allow 20 min for family photos but I don’t know if that is kosher.

Art Scott

anything over 20 minutes is waaaay too long.....I try to keep it at 15 minutes for all posed formals after the ceremony
in sanctuary....that was an imposed time limit at the catholic churches here, as weddings are big business for them here
and the fathers get quite rude if you take too long........just write you a script to follow that lays out your shots and learn it.....
memorize it......that is the key...do not try to follow a list......just do it by memory and never give out a shot list, that can
be damning for a photog..............

trevorb

Thanks Art! I hear ya, I never had had that happened to that extent before and I do think anything over 15 minutes is way too long, it’s just not fair on everyone else attending.

trevorb

Richy- I typically do the bridal party separately from the family group shots and usually have a shot list for them (the bridal party) though it’s just in my bag as a backup. When I meet with the bride and groom before the wedding day I ask them to pick someone from the family that can help bring all the people together for the family shots, though they don’t always find someone and I am often getting everyone together which is not that big of a deal to me but I do make sure they have a list of group photos they want. Just this time they went way beyond the list. I am one of those all you can eat photographers so I probably heap this problem upon myself. I do have a feeling as I raise my prices I will not encounter this problem as much.

Art Scott

richy wrote: »

Are we talking about B&G formals or family formals? I get time being short in a church when they want to rock out weddings but the ones I work with do one wedding a day only so perhaps that explains the time difference thing?

Thank You for the nice compliment.


Yes Both somewhat....directly after recession...I shoot a series that encompasses Bridal party and minister...then BG with brides family and then with both families and then with grooms family....these are formal....no lissy smoochy or huggy pix around statues or anything else......after the formal groups are done i do a short 5 -10 minutes of the B/G "intimates" (huggy kissie shots and I try to incorporate some of the candles....I normally shoot with an assistant to keep things moving and also if the church has a coordinator I get them involved also.

trevorb

Richy-The last wedding, the bride said she needed 45 min to prep, ya… Talked her into 2 ½ hours set aside to getting ready and they still fell behind. I think you right on, it’s really key to walk through the wedding day step by step with the bride and groom. And again as I raise my prices I will encounter more weddings that have wedding coordinators which should also help. I know, I don't know why I got miffed about taking so many family pics, I mean ... I have a camera in my hand and I am not stuck in some office.

Art Scott

richy wrote: »

1- Re shot lists, I don't mean one where it goes b&g standing by signing table, b&g kissing by statue of mary etc, but rather just groups of specific ppl. I found it very useful to talk to the couple about the people coming, you find out stuff like uncle mildred might not be here next year and great aunt purple hair is the brides favourite person in the world etc. I wouldn't have a shot list of poses for the b&g formals but I would normally have a list of what group formals the couple want as on the day they may forget they really wanted one with a specific person.

YMMV

2- edit: just for detail, straight after the ceremony I will do maybe 15 minutes with the couple alone whilst they are in that zone, then group formals which is normally 15-45 minutes then back to working with the couple if they want it. Most of the time as guests are released they are going to a cocktail hour Gradually everyone gets there and the b&g make their entrance last. This works really well for sunset style weddings as well.

1- exactly.....gotta know who is who for both families.....a lot of time I will ask a minister just before they release the guests to ask for certain family members to stay seated for the photos, when i get this kind of cooperation it is great and make getting the photos done quicker


2- This is good if the time allows.....here wedding ceremony ends....then it is straight to reception and if B/G are not there with in 20 minutes the guests will leave....yup happened once....I repeat only ONCE.....people here are well rude at these types of functions.......no cocktail hours for us here.....but they will drink like whales at the reception..............

Because of the way it is done here is exactly why I could shoot 3 weddings each Saturday...of course Sunday I was dead...........and Monday was always a trip to my friendly chiropractor for adjustments and electric shock treatments after my regular 40 hr a week job......

Now I rarely do more than 1 per Saturday....nothing to do with age...but I want to enjoy my work...not do wedding mill work.....don't like puppy mills.....don't like wedding mills or portrait mills rofl

Moogle Pepper

I don't know if I would ever let family shots have a real long timeline, since, that could take away from other shots that could be done and could be very well much more fun for the b+g. Hence, I typically tell the b+g after being told how large the families are, a decent amount of time- I had a decent range of 20 to 40 minutes. 20 minutes with a smaller family but also with their family friend directing all the members to get there or else.

The most important part on family shots, get a family member or someone who can and will pull family members out.

heatherfeather

Well... going against the flow....
Way before the wedding, the bride groom and I make a list of the different combintations and schedule them. Family knows when and where to be, so no one is standing around waiting. I schedule 3 minutes per combination (which is generous, but I would always rather have extra time than not enough). If the bride wants more combos, then we do more combos. If she wants less, then we do less. I don't restrict or require. I figure it is her wedding so however she wants to do it is fine with me, and I charge accordingly.

heatherfeather

I should also add that we also schedule at least 1/2 hour just for the bride and groom. I usually push for two 1/2 hour sessions in the day with just the two of them.... and if I can manage it, make sure one ends up during sunset.

Matthew Saville

I think it has less to do with the fear of "gosh they're gonna keep me here all night!" and MUCH to do with issue of "they're totally eating up their private portraits time!"

What I mean is, I don't care if I'm there all day, I don't care if I have to shoot formals for an hour, as long as I ALSO get the bride and groom alone for some time...

So the problem is when the couple designates 60-90 minutes for BOTH the formals and then the private portraits, thinking they can get fifteen groups of ten people done in five minutes, and then spend an hour doing the private portraits. Inevitably, you wind up spending 45-60 minutes on the formals, PLUS even if you have enough time after that for just the couple, by that point they're probably sick of standing in front of your camera, they're missing their cocktail hour, and it will show in the photos.

So the solution is simply to talk about the schedule in advance. If at all possible, talk them into seeing each other before the ceremony. Talk them out of taking twenty different arrangements of formals, unless they have someone else who knows people's faces and can play drill instructor and gather / direct people to keep things moving nicely. Or at the very least, if they don't want to see each other before the wedding AND they have a bunch of formals to get to, just be honest and realistic and tell them that they'd better plan for 90-120 minutes, or something else extravagant. Then, when the formals run 45 minutes late, and they get bored after another 30 minutes, you can still wrap up "early" and seem like the friendly, understanding photographer...

(EDIT) I guess it sounds quite opposite of the notion found in a few other replies along the lines of "they're the one paying you, so you should do whatever they ask; why try and influence them??"

HOWEVER, I think that as professionals it is not only our job to do whatever the client wants, but to HELP them if they're hiring you for the wrong reasons; if they're bent on paying you to shoot 90% formal group photos that probably any uncle bob could do for free.

So yes, I am saying that if a client comes to me and doesn't care to dedicate much time to private portraits, or doesn't appreciate my dimly lit, candid reception images but is instead asking me if I can go around to each table and get a pic of EVERY person at the wedding, ....I WILL actually tell them that I think I'm over-priced for what they need, or they need to re-think which pictures are important to them in the long run.

In my opinion, there are two things that make an experienced professional worth what they charge - the client's TRUST, and the photographer's VISION. If you can promise to deliver amazing photos no matter what, that's worth something. And if your style is different from anybody else's, that's also worth something. I guess it's possible that the way you shoot formals is different from anybody else, but usually it's the lighting and posing of the bridal portraits, and the composition and timing of the candids throughout the day, that truly determines one's value...

Good luck!
=Matt=

Icebear

Matthew Saville wrote: »

In my opinion, there are two things that make an experienced professional worth what they charge - the client's TRUST, and the photographer's VISION.=Matt=

Yup.

trevorb

Matt- Thanks, I needed that. The way you broke it down was perfect not just the quote below but I really did enjoy the whole reply.
"So yes, I am saying that if a client comes to me and doesn't care to dedicate much time to private portraits, or doesn't appreciate my dimly lit, candid reception images but is instead asking me if I can go around to each table and get a pic of EVERY person at the wedding, ....I WILL actually tell them that I think I'm over-priced for what they need, or they need to re-think which pictures are important to them in the long run."(Matt)

Art Scott

richy wrote: »

I have instant karma

bowbow

Matthew Saville

richy wrote: »

I'm not trying to be an arse about this but aren't we hired not just because we can create and anticipate situations that make awesome shots but also because we can create awesome shots out of potentially mundane situations?
.......

Absolutely agreed. If your "style" is to take your own personal spin on ANY photographic situation, to be able to create something artistic, unique, and/or simply FUN, ...then by all means, go for it! That's your STYLE, and hopefully that's the REASON clients hire you.

So, my original point still rings true- people should hire the right photographer for their job. I'm NOT the right photographer for the type of job you just described, and I'm happy to tell clients that. I'll be sure to send them your way!

I only want to do the work I LOVE to do. I don't want to get tied down in a bunch of situations where I simply don't feel very creative. Plain and simple, they're much better off hiring someone else.

Maybe I was a bit generic and dismissive when I said that they should just hire uncle bob, though. As it has been pointed out, there's always an opportunity for creativity and GOOD images.

Of course oppositely, there are always people who simply aren't very capable of recognizing and appreciating artistic, creative images. Period. If you try and do a fun, fisheye party shot with a stiff, non-drinking crowd of formal conservatives, ...yeah.


So the bottom line is still, I only want clients to hire me because they love the images that *I* love to make. That seems fair enough, right? I want clients who appreciate an image such as this:





Take care,
=Matt=