LR3 export to JPG darker?

bgarland

I am having a terrible time when exporting LR3 edited images as JPGs. If the DNG image has been edited in LR3 to change the exposure, add fill, modify blacks or increase contrast many times the exported JPG image is much darker with extreme blacks or way too much contrast to the point all shadow detail has gone to black and the image is unusable.

The only way around it I have found is to go back into LR3 and lighten the exposure or add fill light just guessing each time and re-export the JPG. If I guess correctly then the JPG looks fine, of not, go back and try again with another adjustment in LR3.

If the LR3 DNG file was not changed much and is close to OOC exposure the exported JPGs usually come out pretty close to what I see in LR3 prior to export.

Has anyone experienced this same darkening of exported JPGs? It's driving me crazy! :scratch

Sam

Brad,

How about some more info? When you say export to jpg, what are the settings? Where are you exporting to, and what application are you viewing the exported image with?

If you can post a link, and / or e-mail an example dng, and the exported jpg exhibiting this I will take a look at it.

Sam

bgarland

Thanks Sam. I just exported a few JPGs from LR3 and this time they converted fine. I'll keep trying to fine a good example and send you the examples once it shows up again.

I am using LR3 to export the DNG file as a JPG with 100% quality setting. Resizing the 3000 pixles on the long edge. These are just exported to another folder on my computer. I then just preview them with the windows preview tool. If they are dark there they also have the same darkness if I upload to Sugmug.

I threw out all the bad ones this morning and re-exported them after lightening in LR so I don't have those examples anymore.

I have seen this same behavior several times before with images from earlier shoots. I have no idea why I can't recreate the problem now.

bgarland

I just tried a fresh import from my DNG backups of an image I know gave me a problem earlier. I did similar adjustments in LR and then exported as a JPG. This time there was no darkening at all and the images matched perfectly.

So what ever the problem is it comes and goes on my system. I'll just have to wait for the next time I experience the problem and capture the examples in the moment. Very goofy.

PilotBrad

I've noticed the same thing, but I've always chalked it up to the conversion to sRGB on export.

Out of curiousity, are you using Windows and how are you viewing the files once exported?

bgarland

I am running a Windows Vista system with LR3.3. When it happens I can clearly see the darkened image in the Windows image previewer or if I don't check first then I can see the same darkened image after uploading to Smugmug. I then have to go back and lighten the image in LR and re-export to correct the problem.

The goofy thing I don't understand is why it is not consistent. As I mentioned above even when using the same files that exhibited the problem I could not reproduce the same darkening effect when I tried to get Sam the examples.

Right now I am just waiting to see it happen again so I can capture the DNG file and exported JPG files that show the difference. When it happens it is not minor, the difference makes the JPG so dark it's unusable.

PilotBrad

It sounds like your problem while similar is much worse than mine.

I think I've been having broader color-management issues. What I have found is that after export Windows will open the image in its native viewer and it will look dark with the shadows all blocked-up. If I click the "Slideshow" button at the bottom of Windows photo viewer, the image will display in full screen mode and appear brighter and the colors will look better. Next time it happens to you, maybe you could hit the slideshow button as see if anything changes... I'd be curious to know.

bgarland

OK I'll try that. Thanks for the input. Hopefully we'll get to the bottom of this.

TheCheesehead

That happened to me when I had the Prophoto color selected. Looked fine when I went to sRGB.

bgarland

TheCheesehead wrote: »

That happened to me when I had the Prophoto color selected. Looked fine when I went to sRGB.

ProPhoto RGB color selected in LR3?

I am running LR using the ProPhoto color setting. I wouldn't want to set LR to sRGB color. I would think that would limit your color gamut way too much for editing RAW images effectively.

I could live with the Adobe RGB 1998 color setting if that corrects the problem though.

I do convert the image to sRGB when exporting to JPG.

pathfinder

I am sorry but I have to ask, is your monitor calibrated with a hardware device? Does the brightness of your screen match your print evaluation lighting?


Leave LR in ProPhoto as a working space, and export your jpgs as sRGB for the web. If you are going to print on your own fine art printer, and it is new within the last year or so, you might want your image to be aRGB if your printer ink gamut can really use the larger gamut. If you are not ceratin, stay with sRGB.

You said you are looking at your images with Windows Image Preview. Is that program color space aware? Photoshop and LR are color space aware as is Safari, some versions of Firefox, but not most other browsers.

I do know that the jpgs LR exports for me look the same in LR, PS, Safari, or on Smugmug via Safari. Prints from my Epson, and from EZPrints or Bay Photo all seem to match as well.

What kind of illumination are you using for your print evaluation stand?

bgarland

pathfinder wrote: »

I am sorry but I have to ask, is your monitor calibrated with a hardware device? Does the brightness of your screen match your print evaluation lighting?


Leave LR in ProPhoto as a working space, and export your jpgs as sRGB for the web. If you are going to print on your own fine art printer, and it is new within the last year or so, you might want your image to be aRGB if your printer ink gamut can really use the larger gamut. If you are not ceratin, stay with sRGB.

You said you are looking at your images with Windows Image Preview. Is that program color space aware? Photoshop and LR are color space aware as is Safari, some versions of Firefox, but not most other browsers.

I do know that the jpgs LR exports for me look the same in LR, PS, Safari, or on Smugmug via Safari. Prints from my Epson, and from EZPrints or Bay Photo all seem to match as well.

What kind of illumination are you using for your print evaluation stand?

These are all excellent questions and would apply to any consistent issues. Once I got the correct ICC file for my paper my ink jet prints always turn out as expected. I have not truly color clabrated my monitor with a hardware calibration tool but 100% of the time my JPG prints from LR come out exactly as I expect they would. It's only that 20% of the time when LR decides to darken the JPG exports that I am concerned about.

I will look for an example that I can share. Until then we have no idea.

arodney

When you export an image from LR (using Export of course), the color space you select (sRGB, ProPhoto) WILL match in Photoshop if Photoshop is properly setup to honor the embedded profile (check your color policies). I’d never use ProPhoto RGB for a JPEG, I’d use sRGB. For a TIFF master out of LR, I’d use ProPhoto 16-bit. In either case, LR embeds that color space in the document, Photoshop will match the color when it preserves that profile (OFF policy should NEVER be used).

Outside ICC aware applications (that Windows viewer), the embedded profile is not recognized. There is no guarantee that it will match what you saw in Lightroom or Photoshop. The closest color space for non ICC aware app’s would be sRGB (assuming you are not using a wide gamut display). Be even saving a JPEG in sRGB is no guarantee the previews will match in this non ICC aware app. Only ICC aware app’s produce matching previews by virtue of understanding the documents embedded profile AND by virtue of understanding the ICC profile of your display (hopefully properly calibrated).

TheCheesehead

bgarland wrote: »

ProPhoto RGB color selected in LR3?

I am running LR using the ProPhoto color setting. I wouldn't want to set LR to sRGB color. I would think that would limit your color gamut way too much for editing RAW images effectively.

I could live with the Adobe RGB 1998 color setting if that corrects the problem though.

I do convert the image to sRGB when exporting to JPG.

I think I misspoke. I use PSE9, and when I exported 16bit tiffs in Prophoto, they looked different in PSE9. I read somewhere that PSE9 doesn't read prophoto color space, and that I have to use sRGB with PSE9...I think....

arodney

TheCheesehead wrote: »

I think I misspoke. I use PSE9, and when I exported 16bit tiffs in Prophoto, they looked different in PSE9. I read somewhere that PSE9 doesn't read prophoto color space, and that I have to use sRGB with PSE9...I think....

It should. Or lets put it this way, if it recognizes embedded profiles (sRGB, Adobe RGB (1998), ColorMatch or even an output profile), it will have no issue with ProPhoto RGB. An app is either ICC aware, like Photoshop and Lightroom, or its not.

TheCheesehead

arodney wrote: »

It should. Or lets put it this way, if it recognizes embedded profiles (sRGB, Adobe RGB (1998), ColorMatch or even an output profile), it will have no issue with ProPhoto RGB. An app is either ICC aware, like Photoshop and Lightroom, or its not.

Thanks I'll look into that. I'll admit I have alot to learn with LR and PSE9.

jessg

bgarland wrote: »

I am having a terrible time when exporting LR3 edited images as JPGs. If the DNG image has been edited in LR3 to change the exposure, add fill, modify blacks or increase contrast many times the exported JPG image is much darker with extreme blacks or way too much contrast to the point all shadow detail has gone to black and the image is unusable.

The only way around it I have found is to go back into LR3 and lighten the exposure or add fill light just guessing each time and re-export the JPG. If I guess correctly then the JPG looks fine, of not, go back and try again with another adjustment in LR3.

If the LR3 DNG file was not changed much and is close to OOC exposure the exported JPGs usually come out pretty close to what I see in LR3 prior to export.

Has anyone experienced this same darkening of exported JPGs? It's driving me crazy!

Hey guys, I was wondering if you figured out what the problem was? I am having the same issues, and I have hundreds of photos to edit so this is posing a huge problem. In paint shop pro, lightroom, windows photo viwer (when i click on slideshow) and even as my desktop background the image looks as it should, but when opened in windows photo viewer in normal view, the blacks appear darker than should be, and almost have no detail at all. I tried unistalling and re-installing lightroom thinking it was the problem, but this didn`t solve anything. Only way around it is to go back into lightrom, and fill light the photo more. But this sometimes results in grain, and becomes really repetitive and annoying. Can anybody help me?

jww

arodney wrote: »

Outside ICC aware applications (that Windows viewer), the embedded profile is not recognized. There is no guarantee that it will match what you saw in Lightroom or Photoshop. The closest color space for non ICC aware app’s would be sRGB (assuming you are not using a wide gamut display). Be even saving a JPEG in sRGB is no guarantee the previews will match in this non ICC aware app. Only ICC aware app’s produce matching previews by virtue of understanding the documents embedded profile AND by virtue of understanding the ICC profile of your display (hopefully properly calibrated).

I believe the above is the answer to your question. Don't use Windows viewer as a point of reference. For quick looking at stuff like I think you are attempting to do, I use breezebrowser pro which is ICC aware rather than the windows viewer that will just drive you nuts.

http://www.breezesys.com/BreezeBrowser/

paddler4

Sounds to me like Windows viewer might be the problem. I have used LR for a few years and have never had this problem, but I never use Windows viewer. When I need a separate viewer, I use often use Irfanview. Every image I have uploaded to Smugmug or Flickr has looked as it should.

LR works in proPhoto. For any screen viewing, I export as JPEG in sRGB. It has always worked fine.

arodney

Windows Viewer is absolutely the issue, its not color managed.

Humminbird

I'm having suddenly having this problem, too.
I am exporting edited files from LR3 to a desktop folder to use for the web and I also had some to burn to disk. All are Srgb. I have done this tons of times with no problem. I printed these files earlier today from LR and they came out perfectly matching my calibrated monitor.
I burned the folder to a disk and also uploaded them to a website. The disk photos are horribly dark. The ones uploaded to the web are also dark but with strange color patterns. So then I opened them in photoshop and I'm getting the same problem. So it is not just the windows viewer.
I calibrated my monitor a couple of days ago with i1display pro, but as I said, I printed them today with no problems and they look fine in LR. It has something to do with the export.
I am using Win7 64 bit Any thoughts?
Thanks, Kathy

Humminbird

Okay, this is getting stranger. I did a test upload directly to smug from LR and that file is fine. I then uploaded from the exported folder on my desktop. Please see http://www.kathleenjohnstonphotography.com/Clients/test/19929113_DQ86Pbe for a comparison of the two. I only seem to run into the problem when I export to a folder on my computer. That's when everything is turning dark. Suggestions?

Humminbird

http://www.kathleenjohnstonphotography.com/Clients/test/19929113_DQ86Pb corrected link

jww

I am half asleep so please excuse my eyes and understanding. ..that being said, I don't see the 2nd as darker, but it does have many more artifacts due to being a much smaller file. Bascially the 2nd one is horribly pixelated and causing all sorts of banding and artifacts all over the place.

So to me (again I am asleep, but up from coughing and sneezing) it looks like you used completely different export settings between the two. Hope this helps!

Humminbird

Thanks JWW. I thought I might have used the wrong export settings also so I repeated the export to new folders on my desktop several times metiiculously checking the settings. I kept getting the poor files. As I said this is something I did regularly in the past with no problems.

jww

..and you are sure you have the quality settings set to 100%? Looks more like 10%. Definitely a huge difference between that and whatever you have set to go to Smugmug via LR. (now awake! lol)

Humminbird

I had been exporting as I always did in the past. I even did some test folders and kept getting these poor results. Then I looked at older files that I had exported to my desktop and they now looked horribly dark. It was almost like 2 separate problems - incorrect export in LR to account for the poor rez and poor viewing in Win7. Burning a cd from the exported folder resulted in the same dark, muddy files I saw on screen outside of LR. Viewing in LR was fine.
After reading a discussion in the Adobe forums that alluded to monitor calibration, I noted that I had calibrated my monitor the day before with xrite i1 Display Pro. Because I had printed yesterday with near perfect results matching print to screen, I hadn't thought that to be the problem. As a result of that post I did some digging and found a troubleshooting guide on xrite's site that cited possible conflicts with Graphic Card/video LUTs in Win7. (I am running Win7 64bit with 12 gigs of ram and an ATI Radeon 5770 card.) xrite went through some steps to correct the problem including removal of ATI's graphic controller software, ATI Catalyst, and some resettings that allows Win7 to use your own icc profiles from the calibration. I'm keeping my fingers crossed, but all seems to be working properly now. I still don't understand why this would affect the LR export quality, but I am a dope when it comes to understanding this stuff.

jww

It will always look fine in LR. I think you're export settings are just messed up on local drives in LR. Go through each parameter with a fine tooth comb. Something is set to downres your photos on export.

I seriously doubt it is anything to do with your graphics card or windows in this case.