photographer 3-way?

mmmatt

Ha! Not that kind of 3-way!

I was recently approached by another photographer that I shoot with to meet with a 3rd photographer and form a little union utilizing each other as 2nd shooters in more of a "dual primary" situation.

This photographer was and is a mentor to me. He got me work when I was new and broke me into wedding photography. We are great friends and have great respect for on another as photographers. We have a ton of fun shooting together and customers love our dueling wit-icisms as we argue on who is the better shooter or how a shot should be done. He does mostly commercial work like quarterly reports and advertising headshots. Some contract magazine and product work, and weddings as they come up, but he does not advertise wedding photography because it isn't his focus.

The 3rd is a very nice young woman who is a primary for the biggest high-end multi-photographer studio in the area. She has a non-compete agreement with this studio that won't allow her to advertise weddings so her website advertises family portraits, baby, maternity and seniors. She gets a lot of weddings from her customer base and even from her non-wedding website. She is a great shooter as well, and really excels at details. She hates working for the photo-mill and is wanting to go on her own.

We met earlier this week and started with a little show and tell and talked about what we liked about our own images and offered suggestions and whatnot. We had a few drinks afterward and we had fun together. We all prefer shooting with another photog. We all far prefer shooting with a 2nd primary over an understudy. I don't foresee competing egos, and since we all advertise differently for clients I don't see much competition happening. we all shoot different techniques, have different styles and have different eyes, but we all like each others work and want to do this.

Since neither of these two advertise weddings they don't advertise prices so the pricing issue doesn't really affect them. They can sell the 2nd for whatever the bride will pay. I currently offer a 2nd for $500. the idea now is to pay an understudy $2-300 and the rest is for my extra time processing. We agreed that $100 per hr would be our minimum amount for the 2nd. We each do our raw processing and deliver only our selects with sidecar files. In theory we will be delivering images that can go strait into the deliver folder or go to photoshop for a little creative love. Reality will likely be that we will all have somewhat different tastes in exposure and white balance but even that will be simple enough to tweak as a batch.

So hmmm. I guess I am wondering if anyone has ever tried something like this before and if it worked. I am going to have to raise my pricing for a 2nd shooter a few hundred, or not take a cut of it. I may sell less 2 shooter gigs that way. I don't know! I guess I am looking for general reaction and advice on this one. Right now I feel I would be a fool not to take advantage of this. I am the least experienced of the three but probably the most passionate about it. We all have different strengths and this scenario would be best for our clients without question. I would have to drive home the 2nd primary concept. I will have free rein to both their ports to use if I wanted a 2nd shooter gallery which I think I would put together. I would get raw files and process them to match the rest of my port. I have a lot of stuff shooting with my friend where I could show "he shoots this angle while I'm shooting it this way" and I will be shooting with her the first time in September.

Sorry this rambles so much! Just trying to think this all through!! Any opinions or insights would be appreciated.

Matt

mmmatt

Bump... sorry for the thread title! has anybody approached something along these lines? Anyone else find success in shooting with a 2nd primary vs a typical understudy?


Matt

Qarik

to me that would just eat up too much of my own margin. The only way that would work is if the couple picked up most or all of the 2nd photographer..then it just becomes expensive and the couple may not even distinguish between a 2nd shooter and a 2nd main.

Daniel

konomaniac

Would the 2nd just be for the ceremony, or for the whole event?? If you're just using the 2nd for the ceremony, it might still work within your price structure.

editted to add - not sure how the client will like purchasing from 2 sources.

tenoverthenose

I found out recently that I am very odd when I use a second shooter compared to most of the industry. I actually hire a fully qualified photographer, not just someone to carry my bags. I let him shoot as he wants, not as I want him to. In the end, total delivery will be 40% his images. All he does is shoot and hand over the cards, I still want complete control of editing. I try to pay him very well for his work and charge my clients appropriately (I charge an extra 2000 for my second shooter). It's not necessary by any means, but some clients want to pay for it.

This is an arrangement that works well for us. My second is very talented with a camera, but doesn't want to mess with the business end of things. All he does is show up and shoot. You'll have to figure out if it works for you personality and business-wise.

mmmatt

tenoverthenose wrote: »

I found out recently that I am very odd when I use a second shooter compared to most of the industry. I actually hire a fully qualified photographer, not just someone to carry my bags. I let him shoot as he wants, not as I want him to. In the end, total delivery will be 40% his images. All he does is shoot and hand over the cards, I still want complete control of editing. I try to pay him very well for his work and charge my clients appropriately (I charge an extra 2000 for my second shooter). It's not necessary by any means, but some clients want to pay for it.

This is an arrangement that works well for us. My second is very talented with a camera, but doesn't want to mess with the business end of things. All he does is show up and shoot. You'll have to figure out if it works for you personality and business-wise.

Yeah... this is exactly what I am trying to do but there are 3 of us. I want control over editing as well, but it is nice if somebody does the primary sorting and color balancing/exposure tweaking in raw.

Quarik, yes this would be about charging the client more for sure.

kono, it will depend on the situation. My friend prefers to have the 2nd just from 1 hr before ceremony through formals, and that is it. I prefer the same but through cocktail and part of the reception, and the new girl likes all day, so we will approach that as it comes. The other photographer will never work with the clients to buy photos though... When we shoot 2nd for each other it would be just like a understudy shooting 2nd from the business standpoint. Whomever books the gig is the one who deals with the clients. The 2nd gives rights for main to sell his images or use them.

We also talked about not promoting our own businesses when shooting under someone else's name unless it is something that is agreed upon that the primary doesn't want to mess with.

Thanks for the comments guys.

Matt

Matthew Saville

tenoverthenose wrote: »

I found out recently that I am very odd when I use a second shooter compared to most of the industry. I actually hire a fully qualified photographer, not just someone to carry my bags. I let him shoot as he wants, not as I want him to. In the end, total delivery will be 40% his images. All he does is shoot and hand over the cards, I still want complete control of editing. I try to pay him very well for his work and charge my clients appropriately (I charge an extra 2000 for my second shooter). It's not necessary by any means, but some clients want to pay for it.

This is an arrangement that works well for us. My second is very talented with a camera, but doesn't want to mess with the business end of things. All he does is show up and shoot. You'll have to figure out if it works for you personality and business-wise.

This is my philosophy as well. An in-experienced, tag-along, bag-carrying "2nd shooter" is no use if I get hit by a bus a week before the wedding, ya know? ;-)

=Matt=

mmmatt

Matthew Saville wrote: »

This is my philosophy as well. An in-experienced, tag-along, bag-carrying "2nd shooter" is no use if I get hit by a bus a week before the wedding, ya know? ;-)

=Matt=

Matt, I think I have heard you say that you will 2nd shoot on occasion. Do you have certain photogs you work with in this capacity? Working as each other's 2nd?

Matt

Matthew Saville

mmmatt wrote: »

Matt, I think I have heard you say that you will 2nd shoot on occasion. Do you have certain photogs you work with in this capacity? Working as each other's 2nd?

Matt

Yes, I 2nd for my associates who are (roughly) as good as I am, and they assist for me as well. I also am part of a nationwide team that takes me to FL every now and then, and elsewhere. In this situation I do sometimes handle my own processing, but if that is required then I am VERY well paid, to the tune of $1-2K. And I only do it because the other photographer and I are a *perfect* team, I wouldn't dream of doing it with anyone I don't get along with amazingly well.

=Matt=

mmmatt

great. thanks for the info.

Matt