FAIL - First attempt at remote strobes w/D700

MDalby

Wow, this didn't go as I had planned. A lot of changes in my gear this week.

- First shoot with a D700
- First shoot with Cactus V4 Triggers
- First shoot with remote strobes

I didn't have my second Speedlight yet. That should be coming today or tomorrow. So, I only had one Speedlight that I was bouncing off the wall behind the basket at 1/2 power. Ideally, I would have another bouncing off the ceiling and have them at 1/4 power.

The gym had very poor lighting that caused cycling issues but I obviously have settings incorrect. Even with 1 strobe and a D700, I should have been able to get better results than this.

Here is a shot in the gym next door with the same lighting but I used no flash.



Here is a shot using the remote flash so you can see the ceiling and the lighting with the cycling issues, no post processing.



Here is a BEFORE shot using the remote flash, no post processing.



Here is an AFTER shot using the remote flash, after Lightroom changes.



Here is my Exif info.



I set up my flash manual and entered the aperture etc..

QUESTION: How do you set up your flash for cactus triggers?

HELP!

Thanks in advance everyone for your help.

MD

kdog

Your first problem is that by shooting at 1/800s, you were exceeding the maximum sync speed of a cactus trigger which is 1/600s. Make sure you have HSS (high speed sync) enabled on your camera as well, otherwise you're looking at a maximum sync speed of somewhere around 1/250. I suspect you're going to want to throw a lot more flash power at the problem as well. HSS eats flash power.

JimKarczewski

-Skip High Speed Sync.

- DON'T BOUNCE. EVERY single photographer I know that shoots for the papers is direct flash, nobody ever bounces. Waste of power. Set your flash to 1/8, Zoom to 50mm and point the flashes just over the heads of the players or somewhere high up pointing down. You kill your recycle time shooting 1/4 power. At 1/8 I can consistently shoot 1/200 (my max sync) @ 4, ISO 1600 for 10-12 frames for an entire game.

And 1/200 or 1/250 (depending on your cameras sync rate) is PLENTY to freeze the action. Lights are only on for somewhere around 1/1000 - 1/2000 of a second depending on the flash, that will stop your subjects, where as if you shot that speed with no flash it would be blurry. However, this is where the flash really pays off.

MDalby

JimKarczewski wrote: »

-Skip High Speed Sync.

- DON'T BOUNCE. EVERY single photographer I know that shoots for the papers is direct flash, nobody ever bounces. Waste of power. Set your flash to 1/8, Zoom to 50mm and point the flashes just over the heads of the players or somewhere high up pointing down. You kill your recycle time shooting 1/4 power. At 1/8 I can consistently shoot 1/200 (my max sync) @ 4, ISO 1600 for 10-12 frames for an entire game.

And 1/200 or 1/250 (depending on your cameras sync rate) is PLENTY to freeze the action. Lights are only on for somewhere around 1/1000 - 1/2000 of a second depending on the flash, that will stop your subjects, where as if you shot that speed with no flash it would be blurry. However, this is where the flash really pays off.

Do fans complain about flash being in their eyes in the bleachers if the flash is just over the eyes of the players?

sgriggs2006

Funny you should post this...just last night I was playing w/ some cowboy studio triggers and had a BLAST w/ them. Using a D700 w/ 2 SB-600's on light stands.
Took a little fiddling, but eventually settled on power set to 1/16 on both. I was up on the stage at one end of the gym (essentially right under the basket).
When you accounted for the stage height (4ft) and the height of the lightstand (maybe 5ft) we were prob 9-10 feet above the floor.
I was delighted w/ my first attempt.
The CS triggers never failed (I had set the flashes to NOT go on standby).

I am a little hesitant about the triggers because they don't hold the flashes real well. Wobbly!! I actually taped the whole getup to the lightstand...

I will either get some CHEAP flashes so that if they go crashing to the floor (errant ball, kids, players, congregating coaches etc) I won't be so sad...any suggestions?

At work now, but can post some pictures late tonight.
cheers,
sue.

MDalby wrote: »

Do fans complain about flash being in their eyes in the bleachers if the flash is just over the eyes of the players?

JimKarczewski

MDalby wrote: »

Do fans complain about flash being in their eyes in the bleachers if the flash is just over the eyes of the players?

Nope. Not a single complaint.. OK, I lie.. One girl complained because she was looking right at them.. I told her, "well, don't look right at them?" The lights were behind her and she turned around and stared at the light. Well, yeah, that's gonna hurt!

donek

Mark,

I didn't look too close when I e-mailed earlier. I have the V2s triggers, not the V4. You do need to set your shutter at 1/200 or 1/250. I bounce, but I do have 4 flashes with lead acid batteries. With 2 flashes, you'll need to point over the players heads. You don't have enough power to bounce and stop the action.

MDalby

When you guys say I need 4 flashes to stop the action, is that 4 flashes for the half of the gym that I am shooting on or one in each corner of the gym?

If I have 2 flashes and move them to the side of the gym that I am shooting on, is that sufficient or I still need 4?

Thanks,

MD

JimKarczewski

You don't need 4, only if you want to cover both sides of the court. You aren't running back and forth, so 2 lights covering one baseline is just fine.

MDalby

JimKarczewski wrote: »

You don't need 4, only if you want to cover both sides of the court. You aren't running back and forth, so 2 lights covering one baseline is just fine.

OK, that is what I was hoping. but, I still need to have direct lighting and not bounce? I am just hoping the fans and players don't get after me. I will give it a shot and hopefully it will be OK.

Thank you for the help.

MD

JimKarczewski

You know, after doing about 20 games now this season, nobody even notices. Besides, ask them what they are going to do if they go play college ball? Ask them to stop "flashing those big bright lights on me?"

At least in Indiana, the governing authority, IHSAA has said, flash is OK @ basketball games but is under the discretion of the referees. First couple of games I ever shot with flash I asked, refs said, "dont care." After than I stopped asking.

I was trying to google the CHSAA but see you came up with the same thing, no regulations regarding flash. Just put it this way, I shot middle school tournaments with flashes set up and nobody questioned them there either. It's not like you are shooting 3000w/s strobes at full power. 1/8 power flashes are barely noticeable when you are actually on the court.

MDalby

JimKarczewski wrote: »

You know, after doing about 20 games now this season, nobody even notices. Besides, ask them what they are going to do if they go play college ball? Ask them to stop "flashing those big bright lights on me?"

At least in Indiana, the governing authority, IHSAA has said, flash is OK @ basketball games but is under the discretion of the referees. First couple of games I ever shot with flash I asked, refs said, "dont care." After than I stopped asking.

I was trying to google the CHSAA but see you came up with the same thing, no regulations regarding flash. Just put it this way, I shot middle school tournaments with flashes set up and nobody questioned them there either. It's not like you are shooting 3000w/s strobes at full power. 1/8 power flashes are barely noticeable when you are actually on the court.

Thanks Jim!

mattdan12

JimKarczewski wrote: »

I was trying to google the CHSAA but see you came up with the same thing, no regulations regarding flash..

Not that I have anything to add from a technical standpoint, but my wife is friends with one of the Associate Commissioners with CHSAA. I could ask her about flash regulations at games if you like, or put you in contact with her.

MDalby

mattdan12 wrote: »

Not that I have anything to add from a technical standpoint, but my wife is friends with one of the Associate Commissioners with CHSAA. I could ask her about flash regulations at games if you like, or put you in contact with her.

I see those shooting for papers using flash often. I will this weekend. Jim has talked me into it.

jonh68

With a D700, you should be able to bounce with one flash, either off a back wall, or the ceiling depending on the color of the ceiling. You do need to enable auto FP sync speed, and you should be able to get away with speeds around 1/500, and ISO 3200 to 6400. When you bounce for fill, it will help your exposure and noise as proper exposure reduces noise. The D700 is very capable at ISO 6400.

These were bounced using a D3s and SB-900 at 1/8 power.

donek

mattdan12 wrote: »

Not that I have anything to add from a technical standpoint, but my wife is friends with one of the Associate Commissioners with CHSAA. I could ask her about flash regulations at games if you like, or put you in contact with her.

I shoot with flash at CHSAA games with no problems. Never had a ref complain at basketball, volleyball or wrestling. I've had spectators complain once to the AD. I just repositioned them and everyone was happy.