Taking my own medicine, round II

divamum

Round I here

I'm definitely having one of those weeks where nothing quite works the way I want it to, but such is life ... :tough

In any case, I coaxed a reshoot out of Mini-D on a snow day earlier this week. Decided to take a completely different approach and go for more of the actor world's "commercial" look than the natural light (or operatic glamourous look) I usually favour; I still don't *like* this look as much (just personal taste, and if not done really well it always seems a little retro to me) but given the circumstances it felt like it was worth exploring... if only to practice and try to get my chops back in! I really feel out of the groove at the moment. This session was, in many ways, more about me trying to get my lighting right; fortunately, she was in a more "model-ish" mood, so she was switched on and posed herself much of the time. Can never tell which I'll get when I point the camera at her... :rofl

I'm beyond frustrated by my lack of space which I'm realising I have really outgrown - it's always been tight, but now I finally have some understanding of how to use my lights (and enough modifiers to play with) I'm feeling the limitations of not being able to use them properl because I quite literally keep running into brick walls. I keep making do with it because there's no other choice, but it's really frustrating. The room is ~10x14 which sounds fine until I add in that fact that it's my living room, complete with furniture. Even with everything pushed back and as out of the way as possible, it's TIGHT.

Anyway here's round II. C&C always welcomed!

1 I'm not generally a huge fan of 3/4 shots unless they show something specific, but this one worked for me for some reason, even with the folded arms (which don't read to me as block/defensive in this shot, although maybe I'm just reading it as "mom" instead of somebody else). I'm still not thrilled with how I've lit her nose, which isn't nearly as big as this makes it appear, but I like the expression. I think I needed more fill, but since flash #2 was on the bg, I have to fill with reflection and for whatever reason it isn't working quite right here.



2 A bit penny-plain, but it gets the job done with decent eye-connection to the viewer. Wish I could have got her hair smoother. :dunno



3. No matter how many times I try other things, I always find myself drawn to this look, even though I don't really consider it terribly "on trend" for headshots - I just *like* it as a lighting setup. Single flash in the Photek with a reflector on the other side. Simple and effective. Maybe I should stop trying to outclever myself and just go with what works... :rofl



4. We did some fun stuff, too (hey, we were iced-in!). I've actually got a bunch of fun faces which I may make into a collage for me - they're useless as headshots, but some great outtakes :thumb. I do need to flag my BG light a bit better to save myself work in post - and as I look at this here I think I overded the contrast boost in her hair as it's too dark now. Easily fixed, fortunately.

Hackbone

Diva, 14ft is really, really tight. Especially when you want your subject about 6ft from the background most of the time. What was your mm setting on the lens for these? The lighting and ratio looks pretty spot on. #2 might be alittle too hot on the tip of the nose. Good job.

zoomer

I like one, with a slight crop from the right. Darken the sweater front just a bit to separate more from the background.
I like 3, the light looks a little low, the highlight is in the lower part of her eye which puts the nose shadow up instead of down.
3 is my favorite has the most natural expression and best light, other than the nit mentioned.
She is cute, you are lucky to have willing model available .

briandelion

I'll leave the technical comments to the experts. Reacting to her expression, composition, etc. here goes:
1. I don't react to the folded arms as defensive at all. More like relaxed and confident. Beautiful expression and tilt of the head. I agree with darkening the sweater.
2. I like the eye connection too, but something about the smille appears tentative.
3. My favorite. Those day-dreamy expressions are always my favorite. They have a way of drawing you in. I would try lightening the shadowed eye slightly and maybe open up the shadowed part of the hair to reveal just a touch more detail.
4. Very cute. I can imagine this being included in a series of fun outtakes.

NeilL

Very interesting to watch you work through the various limitations you describe, thanks for that.

After reviewing this set (#1, 2, 3) a few times, and liking and disliking things in each - I think the way that you are handling shadows here is excellent, congratulations! - the "nice meter" in my eye tells me that I find #3 the most successful. The strongest reason I am most attracted to that one is the quality of the hair - light, colour and detail - but most of all its natural appearance. In the other shots the hair is not as well exposed, and it appears to me to have been "shaved" around the outline. I find the soft looseness of her hair in #3 very appealing, and it helps the feel in that image enormously.

In all of the three, my eye objects to the apparent closeness of the key. I know that you want brightness in the face, but to my eye the way the light is falling on the on-side of the face has the appearance of a source which is very close. I think it's to do with the radius of the fall off, which is sudden when the light is close, and this is detectable even though there are no shadows involved. I feel the tussle here between getting the bright look you want, with nevertheless extremely soft, minimal shadow, and getting a correspondingly soft highlight from the key. It's worth the struggle, for sure! Obviously part of the solution is to go into a bigger working space.

I also like the balance of light in #3 best. However, I also like the overall bright look of #1. And I think you know that I am really attracted to the idea of light dissolving into light.

I think my preference with make-up in these is for a little less, especially lipstick, and especially the gloss. The way that it picks up the light is a bit harsh and distracting to my eye. Another reason I like #3 is because it is less so in that one.

People-posing is one of the big challenges I find, and I am engrossed in that in my mind atm. Somehow with your own family it is harder to use the calculated, manipulative tricks that work well, the various ways of distracting the subject's attention from their own self-consciousness. But that can pay big dividends. I know that doesn't quite gel with the headshot for publicity aim here, but still I think that if something other than a pure in-your-face hotly lit static cut out of "ME" (I don't mean your images here, but the most common look in this genre) is in the shot it goes onto a different level.

Thanks again for sharing all this with us. I'm eager to see where you are going.

Neil

divamum

Thanks for all the great feedback, folks. As I've hinted at above, I don't really care for the whole HK setup as a look in general, although I will grant it's a verrrry useful look for this age group since it immediately has a kind of fun, fresh young feel to it which helps keep these sophisticated young teens looking their age a bit more; I'm very aware that my other setups add a maturity which isn't necessarily appropriate. But, it's useful to master it, so I'm glad I decided to have a go.

@Hackbone - yeah, it's really tight. For tight shots I'll use the 85mm, but more usually the 50mm 1.4, as in these. I actually find the width more limiting than the length - I can back up a bit through a doorway if necessary, but widthwise the flippin' sofa is always exactly where I want to put my lightstand and I can't get it far enough to the side. Short of actually getting rid of all my furniture, however (not an option - well, not if I want to stay married ), I'm stuck with it.

@zoomer - very helpful observations. She's... mostly willing, although we have to, uh, negotiate ;D

@Brian - thanks for the reactions to poses - very helpful.

@Neil - actually, the bg's are pretty much as photographed without any cutting out; I boosted the brightness a little (with only one light it's almost impossible to avoid hotspots no matter how I set it up), but that's essentially done with light. I did need to flag it a bit more but (once again) space really limited me since I couldn't pull her further forward away from the bg. I did clone/liquify wispies in her hair which is I think what you're seeing. The shot you like is about the only one of the entire set where the hair didn't need massive work because of bits sticking out in most un-aesthetic ways (definitely a bad hair day - hence why we tried the ponytails for a while!)

I'm interested to see where I'm going with this too - I'm not quite sure . I've got a client shoot sometime this month (a gorgeous redhead which should be a blast) - I'm glad I did these since I've been so distracted with other stuff recently that I haven't had time to think about this much. My reliable 1 light+reflector setup is fine, but I like to give my clients more looks than just that one classic style. Even if results in these two shoots weren't quite as fluent as I'd like, it's reminded me of things which can make help things run smoothly, so it's been an excellent exercise in preparation. I know when I'm shooting a LOT many of these things become routined but after a couple of months concentrating on the rest of my life I need to review my basics!

divamum

Did a rework on #1 - a little less boost on the background, less contrast on sweater, different approach to cleaning up the hair, slightly tighter crop (from the right, Zoomer ), softer/lighter (and hopefully more natural) lip lip colour. Better?

NeilL

Yes, I think it is overall an improvement, especially of the hair, and I think the crop on the right makes for a better composition. As I said before I think you have the shadows wonderfully in your control. For your daughter's face structure I think the best use of shadow is away from the broad lighting end, and with the source lower rather than higher (or the camera lower than higher). The lighting of #3 is ideal imo. The ribbon in the hair in #3 also balances the face nicely.

Neil

divamum

Thanks Neil. For my own aesthetics I agree with you about the light level and the basic look of 3 vs the rest, but i was definitely trying for a particular bright, HK style in the others. As I said in my first thread, this is not necessarily my preferred style, but I'm realising it does work very well for this age group, and is just a very useful look over which to have a command (well, attempt to ); I'm very glad I've been giving it a try so I have it "in my arsenal" for clients

NeilL

divamum wrote: »

Thanks Neil. For my own aesthetics I agree with you about the light level and the basic look of 3 vs the rest, but i was definitely trying for a particular bright, HK style in the others. As I said in my first thread, this is not necessarily my preferred style, but I'm realising it does work very well for this age group, and is just a very useful look over which to have a command (well, attempt to ); I'm very glad I've been giving it a try so I have it "in my arsenal" for clients

Neil

reyvee61

Diva I've gone coo coo looking at these again and again and I gotta tell ya.....you are being awfully hard on yourself as these are all great....fantastic lighting and shadow ratios and great exposures as well.
Kudos to Mini D for helping out (my little one has the flu and is out of service), she's a fabulous model.

I like #3 the best which happens to be your simplest setup!
Keep doing your thing, it's helping me out too

divamum

Thanks Rey! I just hoping to gain that seemingly effortless command of lighting that the best photoraphers have - not only for technical mastery (although of course that) but because if that part of the process is secure and reliable it leaves me free to really try and get that something special out of my subjects which is, after all, the goal of a headshot.

BradfordBenn

Hi Divamum

I think I let set #2 better, they seem more natural and inviting.I like the processing on shot #1 the second time a little better. I think the hair on the camera left side is still a little off looking but I can't quite put my finger on what it is beside saying it looks processed. I am amazed at what you are able to pull off in 14' very impressive.

divamum

Thanks for the feedback B.

I know what you mean about the hair - I've been looking at it for days now trying to figure out what it is! I think I've cloned a highlight that's too much the same; I may go back and patch/clone a little more with a different source to try and minimize it.

FWIW, here's the SOOC raw shot:


As far as the space, needs must - it's what I have, so it's what I use. The living room is easier than the (even smaller and more crowded) music room. Still, at some point I'm really going to need a more generous EMPTY space. Not quite sure what to do about that, but I'll cross that bridge when I get to it, I guess. For now, I just try to find a way to make it work!

Jane B.

divamum wrote: »

Thanks for the feedback B.

As far as the space, needs must - it's what I have, so it's what I use. The living room is easier than the (even smaller and more crowded) music room. Still, at some point I'm really going to need a more generous EMPTY space. Not quite sure what to do about that, but I'll cross that bridge when I get to it, I guess. For now, I just try to find a way to make it work!

I have no information to add at all about the shots taken but what you said about the two rooms made me think (was bookkeeper for a construction company for over 30 years)! Where are the music room and living room in relation to each other? Down the line would you be able to and want to remodel the house to combine them in a way that could still be used for all purposes (living, music & photos)?

divamum

Hahahaha Jane! That was part of the wishlist when we did the renovation on our 1928 house 4 years ago but it scrolled off the bottom of the list as other items took priority. At some point I'm dying to put French doors between the two rooms so they can be opened up from time to time (yet I can still keep my music studio separate for practice and teaching purposes). Course, with piano and living room furniture it's still not as much room as the resulting 20x14 dimensions would suggest! However, to do that properly (structural work and knock-on effect affecting other areas of the house), I need serious cashflow and the money certainly isn't available for that right now.

Alternatively, I'll just indulge my other someday-if-I-come-into-some-money fantasy, and build a double garage at the bottom of the garden, to be used as a studio. Apparently Once Upon A Time there was a garage way at the back of the property, torn/fallen down long before we bought the house - I didn't even know there'd been one until an elderly neighbour asked if we planned on rebuildling it and showed me where the foundation had been!

Hey, a girl can dream...

dawssvt

Very nice!