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On Saturday night I attended a presentation of an awards party. The presentation was a success. However, the second half included diso dancing with only the disco lights illuminating the room. I used my 7D with 580 ex ii my camera settings were manual F.4 ISO 400 and shutter speed 1/250 on Alservo the flash was on ETTL +1. I may be totally wrong here but I feel that the shutter speed should have been much higher. The problem is I couldn't go any higher than 1/250. I would appreciate any help or advice anyone can give me on this. I have attached three photos for you to see what I mean.
Cheers
Bob
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Cheers
Bob
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Comments
You should have raised your ISO to 800 or even 1600 with a 7D, stopped down to f5.6 or f8, for greater depth of field, and lowered your shutter speed to 1/160th. Since your dancers are exposed by the flash, the slower shutter speed will not show them moving. You could even go to 1/60th, and turn on 2nd curtain synch. No reason not to leave 2nd curtain synch on all the time really. Camera in Manual Mode, flash in ETTL. You did not need ETTL +1, the subjects are overly bright to me. Properly exposed, even ISO 1600 will look very nice. I have lovely images shot with a 40D at ISO 1600, so a 7D will certainly do that. Makes it much easier for your flash to light the image, and will cut your flash recycle times dramatically.
I don't see anything in focus in your first shot - did you have AF turned off perhaps?
Read this thread too - http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=49999
Moderator of the Technique Forum and Finishing School on Dgrin
1/250th is the fastest flash sync your camera is capable of in normal flash mode. You may be able to use FP/HSS mode on the flash if the flash supports that mode and if you are using first curtain sync. FP/HSS mode would allow much higher shutter speeds but it does not stop action any better than normal flash sync. FP/HSS is also less efficient than normal flash sync, so it is not usually recommended for wide-angle or distance use.
FP/HSS mode is normally used to help control ambient light in bright ambient light situations.
If you are getting over exposure try using a minus Flash-Exposure-Compensation (FEC).
All of this is covered in your users manual, but now you know what phrases to look for.
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
Hi Pathfinder,
Jim, if only I had those details and settings I am sure the disco photos would have turned out better.
I used AF on a 17-55 IS 2.8 I must admit sometimes focusing was a wee bit lazy. I checked the LCD and as usual they all looked ok on the LCD. I didn't zoom in and check because I thought they were ok. (lessons to be learned)
I have read the 580 manual several times and I also purchased a DVD " Understanding the Canon 580 ex/480ex" I have to confess I am struggling with both.
I was aware of the max 1/250 shutter speed and understand the high speed synch.
Can you please tell me how to change from first to second curtain synch, and in simple terms which is the best to use and when?
I have looked at your link and all the photos and exifs and if I could produce photos like those I would be one happy old guy.
Whilst on this subject I have attached four photos of the Monte Rally Historique which passed through our area last week. Also three photos of a night rally which is held once a month. Can you please attempt to advise me of the settings for these type of events and which curtain synch to use?
Last of all am I using the correct lens from the lenses I have?
I hope I haven't gone on too long Jim but I always know I get a confident reply from you and also Ziggy whom I will be replying to next.
Cheers
Bob
1 17-55 lens F4 1/30 ISO 800
2 17-55 lens F3.5 1/10 ISO 400
3 17-55 lens F3.5 1/250 ISO 400
4 17-55 lens F4 1/30 ISO 800
5 17-55 lens F3.5 1/250 ISO 200
6 17-55 lens F3.5 1/250 ISO 200
7 17-55 lens F3.5 1/250 ISO 200
I always use AI-Servo when I am at the rallies. I asumed with the fast movement of the dancers it was best to use this setting. I was using the One-Shot AF mode when taking the presentation.
As I said to Pathfinder I have read the manual several times and also purchased a DVD on " Understanding the 580ex/480ex" but have to confess I am still struggling with it. I was aware of the max 1/250 shutter speed. Here I go again showing my ignorance how do I set HP/High Speed Synch on my 580 ex ii? I understand the FEC settings.
Once again Ziggy thanks again for all your kind help.
Cheers
Bob
On many of the shots you are doing well to get the focus as good as it is.
Even a 580 is not going to light up an entire street at night, so I might be trying to stretch the ISO further than you do, which should be easy on a 7D.
I use AI servo rarely and only when I want to track a single moving object - single runner, bird in flight, etc. With several people dancing and flailing around unpredictably I think I am asking too much of the system to keep everybody sharp. In the dance shots I would try to calculate DOF generously to incorporate the group of dancers I am interested in, set appropriate aperture, and bokey out the rest - do you really need the guys at the back bar to be sharp too? Either that, or try and capture some emotion from a single dancer and bokey out the rest.
On flash I have no ideas. I rely on automatic default flash settings, aperture priority, and am eager to learn more.
Thanks for replying and I appreciate what you say Goldenballs in respect of the Al-Servo I will certainly keep what you say in mind. Also about the DOF.
Regards
Bob
I couldn't find my manual for the 580exII, so I went online and found it here -- http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/cameras/speedlite_flash_lineup/speedlite_580ex_ii#BrochuresAndManuals
On page 26, it describes 2nd curtain synch. Here is that page.....
Notice the little arrow-ish looking area that has been encircled in grey on the page above. That is the 2nd curtain synch symbol, and there is a button on the back of the 590exII labelled with that symbol.......
The manual does not have a really good photo of the buttons on the back of the 580exII flash with labels on them. So I made some for you, Bob. (They are not all perfectly sharp, because it is hard to hold a pen in one hand and a camera in the other, and shoot macro photos with my P&S.)
If you press the HSS/2Curtain Synch button repeatedly, the flash rotates between Normal mode, High Speed Synch, and 2nd Curtain Synch mode. In 2nd curtain Synch the flash is not illuminated until just immediately prior to the focal plane shutter closing. In Normal mode the flash fires as soon as the focal plane shutter is fully open. So with long exposure - 8 or 12 seconds say - of a moving car, the image of the car will be when the shutter first opens, and the the image is less clear and more ghostly, as the car continues to move until the shutter closes. In 2nd Curtain synch, the car moves ghostly through your frame and is then finally brightly exposed just as the shutter closes, so it looks more like we expect it to look. Fire a few frames of moving vehicles and you will quickly see what I mean.
Here is the HSS/2nd CS button on your 590exII
Here is the flash after one press of the button turning on HSS
Here is the flash after two presses of the HSS/2CS button with 2nd Curtain Synch active
Press the button a third time to turn 2nd curtain synch off.
I agree with ZIggy that One Shot AF will be more productive in this kind of group shooting than AIServo.
AF on the 7d is quite good, but not as easy as it was on the 40D. The user has more choices, other than group or a single AF point. You can choose groups of AF points on the 7D, and I find it quite useful to do exactly that. At the top of page 90 in your manual for the 7D, is a description of Manual Selection of Zones, which lets you select from 5 seperate zones of your AF points - right, left, up , down, or central. While single point AF choice is potentially the most accurate for stationary targets, in low light and with moving targets, Manual Zone selection can be quite effective. And much faster, I use it a lot for wildlife shooting.
Moderator of the Technique Forum and Finishing School on Dgrin
Sorry Bob. I missed that there was a question in your post.
Refer to your user manual or grab a copy of the manual here:
http://a248.e.akamai.net/pix.crutchfield.com/manuals/280/280580exii.pdf
Page 17 contains the instructions but I'll also copy them here:
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
Thanks ever so much Pathfinder for taking so much of your time time to explain this to me. I can follow everything perfectly and I know now exactly what I am doing.
Thanks once again for all your kind help.
Cheers
Bob
Thanks once again Ziggy for all your kind help which I really appreciate. I do find it easier to read the manual from the computer than reading the manual I received with the 580EX.
Cheers
Bob