Softbox vs Shoot Through Umbrella?

vaio2006vaio2006 Registered Users Posts: 93 Big grins
edited February 21, 2011 in Accessories
I currently use a Shoot Through Umbrella - but looking into purchasing a softbox.

How different is the quality of light from a softbox vs a Shoot Through Umbrella?

AND also, are there any particular brands of softboxes? (I'm going to mount my Speedlight to it so it has to have one of those speedlight adapters)
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Comments

  • angevin1angevin1 Registered Users Posts: 3,403 Major grins
    edited February 8, 2011
    You may want to start by reading this recent thread: Here

    There really are a lot of options and choices...AND a use for both umbrellas and Sb's.
    tom wise
  • ziggy53ziggy53 Super Moderators Posts: 24,133 moderator
    edited February 8, 2011
    A softbox (SB) is more similar, by design, to diffuse window light. Most quality soft boxes are double diffused, meaning that they are very even corner to corner.

    A shoot-through umbrella (STU) is much more portable and easier to set up. It typically has a brighter area in the center than at the edges. Because of the shape of the STU it tends not to "wrap" the light as smoothly around the subject, especially used very close to the subject.

    Both have their place. I tend to use umbrellas for a more mobile setup, and SBs for a studio setup. I still also use reflective white white umbrellas for fill in either case.

    A "SoftLighter II" tends to be an excellent substitute for a SB when you need more portability. A 60" SoftLighter will provide similar light to a 45" square SB, but it tends to be much easier to setup. I use a 60" softlighter with a removable stem so that I can position the device very close to the subject if needed and for safety.
    ziggy53
    Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
  • NeilLNeilL Registered Users Posts: 4,201 Major grins
    edited February 8, 2011
    Another issue between the two is control of light spill. You can put a grid/baffles/barn doors on a SB, but not on an umbrella. You can gobo an umbrella but that's more work and gear. I think both small SBs and umbrellas are rather tricky used as key, and really work less problematically as fills.

    Neil
    "Snow. Ice. Slow!" "Half-winter. Half-moon. Half-asleep!"

    http://www.behance.net/brosepix
  • JustinThymeJustinThyme Registered Users Posts: 112 Major grins
    edited February 9, 2011
    You also have to be careful in your choice of shoot through umbrellas. Without calling out any name brands you will find that the cheaper ones will show the lines of the umbrella spines in reflection like the eyes or other reflective surfaces, not too appealing.
    Canon CPS Gold Member
  • divamumdivamum Registered Users Posts: 9,021 Major grins
    edited February 9, 2011
    Like Ziggy, I'm a huge fan of the Photek Softliter - for under $70 you effectively get something which can act as a softbox, shoothru umbrella or bounce umbrella, giving you the three most popular modifiers in one small, easy-to-set-up package. I use the 45" in a small shooting space and almost all of my favorite shots have been taken using it. It controls spill better than an umbrella, but it also offers a lot of "wraparound" light. This is great for general portraits, although NOT so good if you really want to restrict and tighten up the light. For that, a SB is a more effective tool, especially with grids and other attachments to help control it even more.

    A softbox is also easierto use outside, since it doesn't suffer from the Mary Poppins syndrome quite so much! I use my small Cheetah SB for that, for fill, or for more focused (yet still soft) lighting; the included grid is great (see the thread Angevin linked for my review of that item - that thread also includes a link to a bigger discussion about SB vs umbrellas, and has suggestions for quite a few different products).
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  • rpcrowerpcrowe Registered Users Posts: 733 Major grins
    edited February 12, 2011
    Hotshoe vs. Studio Strobe With Modifiers...
    I once did a test using a hotshoe flash and a standard studio strobe firing into a white reflective umbrella and through a softbox. Unfortunately, I don't have the photographic results of that comparison between hotshoe and studio flash because it was done on film, not digital media.

    The standard studio strobe had a reflector of 7" in diameter while the hotshoe flash had a reflector about 1x3" or so. The area of the studio flash reflector was over 154 square inches while the area of the hotshoe flash was somewhere around 3 square inches. That is a major difference in size.

    The rod of the umbrella was also centered almost exactly through the center of the studio reflector and the studio strobe fired directly into the center of the umbrella. Because of the need for an adapter, the umbrella rod was below the reflector of the hotshoe flash and the flash fired towards the top half of the umbrella.

    The light from the studio flash bounced into the umbrella was more even and softer than the light from the hotshoe flash.

    The studio flash vs. hotshoe flash modified by a softbox was even more startling. With the hotshoe flash, the softbox was attempting to spread out and soften the light which had been concentrated into a specular beam by the reflector of hotshoe flash; while the softbox was used to modify the bare bulb light of the studio strobe which, because the reflector had been removed, was already diffuse and even.

    The hotshoe/softbox combination did diffuse the light and did make the tiny reflector into a larger light source. But there was no comparison in softness and even lighting between the hotshoe and studio results.
  • Art ScottArt Scott Registered Users Posts: 8,959 Major grins
    edited February 12, 2011
    ziggy53 wrote: »

    A "SoftLighter II" tends to be an excellent substitute for a SB when you need more portability. A 60" SoftLighter will provide similar light to a 45" square SB, but it tends to be much easier to setup. I use a 60" softlighter with a removable stem so that I can position the device very close to the subject if needed and for safety.

    At 60" is this good for full length portraits for 1-3 people??

    If the softlighter is you Key light what are you using for a fill??

    Thanks they look interesting
    "Genuine Fractals was, is and will always be the best solution for enlarging digital photos." ....Vincent Versace ... ... COPYRIGHT YOUR WORK ONLINE ... ... My Website

  • ziggy53ziggy53 Super Moderators Posts: 24,133 moderator
    edited February 13, 2011
    Art Scott wrote: »
    At 60" is this good for full length portraits for 1-3 people??

    If the softlighter is you Key light what are you using for a fill??

    Thanks they look interesting

    A SoftLighter is measured the same way as an umbrella, i.e. across the splines. As such it has a smaller opening than the measurement indicates. A 60" SoftLighter has about the same opening as a 45"-48" softbox. I would recommend using 2 of either devices for a typical full-length shot using a short-lighting/Rembrandt or broad-lighting setup.

    Fill light is generally from a reflective umbrella and flash, but I'll use whatever I have. I sometimes use direct light at a distance for fill. Sometimes I'll use a reflective surface at an angle contra to the key light.

    I'll try to get some comparative shots of the openings for my 48" softboxes vs the 60" SoftLighter later.
    ziggy53
    Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
  • divamumdivamum Registered Users Posts: 9,021 Major grins
    edited February 13, 2011
    No comment on the larger size, Art, but I regularly use a 45" softliter+ fill reflector for headshots:

    912386353_A5Vnx-M.jpg

    1176500744_c7BLo-M.jpg
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  • NeilLNeilL Registered Users Posts: 4,201 Major grins
    edited February 13, 2011
    rpcrowe wrote: »
    I once did a test using a hotshoe flash and a standard studio strobe firing into a white reflective umbrella and through a softbox. Unfortunately, I don't have the photographic results of that comparison between hotshoe and studio flash because it was done on film, not digital media.

    The standard studio strobe had a reflector of 7" in diameter while the hotshoe flash had a reflector about 1x3" or so. The area of the studio flash reflector was over 154 square inches while the area of the hotshoe flash was somewhere around 3 square inches. That is a major difference in size.

    The rod of the umbrella was also centered almost exactly through the center of the studio reflector and the studio strobe fired directly into the center of the umbrella. Because of the need for an adapter, the umbrella rod was below the reflector of the hotshoe flash and the flash fired towards the top half of the umbrella.

    The light from the studio flash bounced into the umbrella was more even and softer than the light from the hotshoe flash.

    The studio flash vs. hotshoe flash modified by a softbox was even more startling. With the hotshoe flash, the softbox was attempting to spread out and soften the light which had been concentrated into a specular beam by the reflector of hotshoe flash; while the softbox was used to modify the bare bulb light of the studio strobe which, because the reflector had been removed, was already diffuse and even.

    The hotshoe/softbox combination did diffuse the light and did make the tiny reflector into a larger light source. But there was no comparison in softness and even lighting between the hotshoe and studio results.

    Yes, that's what I was seeing, and commented on.

    Neil
    "Snow. Ice. Slow!" "Half-winter. Half-moon. Half-asleep!"

    http://www.behance.net/brosepix
  • WarpedWarped Registered Users Posts: 98 Big grins
    edited February 17, 2011
    This article by Zack Arias and the images that go along with it is one of the better explanations I've seen shwoing the difference between softboxes V umbrellas.

    The main difference is the "spill" as NeilL first mentions in the 3rd of 4th post to this thread and that article shows what that means quite nicely.
    If at first you don't succeed - maybe sky diving isn't for you.
    www.warped-photography.com
  • Manfr3dManfr3d Registered Users Posts: 2,008 Major grins
    edited February 19, 2011
    +1 for softbox because it allows to controlls spill much better (a grid further improves this)
    “To consult the rules of composition before making a picture is a little like consulting the law of gravitation before going for a walk.”
    ― Edward Weston
  • Art ScottArt Scott Registered Users Posts: 8,959 Major grins
    edited February 20, 2011
    Softlighters and Octoboxes would probably be ok for me.....but I HATE square catchlights in portraits....Thanx Ziggy.......My studio is decently large on the flo0r but only have a height of 9 foot ceiling..... I am looking for better light......brollys have served well and I like them but....it just may be time for new modifiers.........I may have to stack my mains and use a single fill
    "Genuine Fractals was, is and will always be the best solution for enlarging digital photos." ....Vincent Versace ... ... COPYRIGHT YOUR WORK ONLINE ... ... My Website

  • Manfr3dManfr3d Registered Users Posts: 2,008 Major grins
    edited February 20, 2011
    Art Scott wrote: »
    Softlighters and Octoboxes would probably be ok for me.....but I HATE square catchlights in portraits....Thanx Ziggy.......My studio is decently large on the flo0r but only have a height of 9 foot ceiling..... I am looking for better light......brollys have served well and I like them but....it just may be time for new modifiers.........I may have to stack my mains and use a single fill

    You can just cut a round hole in a black piece of cardboard and stick it in front of a softbox, thats what I do sometimes. Not very elegant but it surely removes those squared catchlights.
    “To consult the rules of composition before making a picture is a little like consulting the law of gravitation before going for a walk.”
    ― Edward Weston
  • MileHighAkoMileHighAko Registered Users Posts: 413 Major grins
    edited February 20, 2011
    I'm sure I'm in the minority, but I like square catchlights. The geometric variance against the iris draws me in. :)

    Cardboard with a round hole in front of the soft box is a great tip though, thanks.
    http://www.adamcartwright.com
  • WarpedWarped Registered Users Posts: 98 Big grins
    edited February 21, 2011
    Art Scott wrote: »
    Softlighters and Octoboxes would probably be ok for me.....but I HATE square catchlights in portraits....Thanx Ziggy.......My studio is decently large on the flo0r but only have a height of 9 foot ceiling..... I am looking for better light......brollys have served well and I like them but....it just may be time for new modifiers.........I may have to stack my mains and use a single fill

    Have you looked at adding a Beauty Dish to the lighting collection?
    If at first you don't succeed - maybe sky diving isn't for you.
    www.warped-photography.com
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