First paid event, Please Help!!!
rickp
Registered Users Posts: 346 Major grins
I've been approached with a possible project taking pictures for a young girl's 15th B-Day party. To be honest this would be my first paid gig and I really don't know how much to charge her. From what I've been told, the event is at a ball room hall and should be about 3 to 4 hours in length. So far this is all the info I have. I have done an engagement shoot for a family member in the past, but that was probono work.
So with this information, what is an acceptable rate for the event?
Also, please share any consideration you might have for me, I'm sure I haven't thought about many.
Thanks
R.
So with this information, what is an acceptable rate for the event?
Also, please share any consideration you might have for me, I'm sure I haven't thought about many.
Thanks
R.
Canon 5DMk II | 70-200mm f2.8 IS USM | 24-105mm f4.0 IS USM | 85mm f1.8 prime.
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Comments
An acceptable rate is a relative term. You are the only one that can determine what your hourly rate should be. A lot of people like to base their rate on other area photographers or their level of experience.
Are you simply taking the images and handing them off to the client or are you going to have to edit the images also?
How many images are they expecting?
Will the images be placed on a disc?
Will you be printing these images?
Will you upload them to your site for purchase?
What allowable uses are you granting for the images?
There are simply too many factors for a standard rate. I can tell you that for 4 hours we charge $650.00
Then we add to that depending on how they want the images or how they are using the images. There can be added charges for travel, food, or other expenses.
Figure out what you want your hourly rate to be. Figure out your expenses and quote that price.
Website
That's exactly the considerations I was looking for. I didn't think of most of those.
My assumption (and we know what happens when you assume) was that I was going to take pictures of the event and it's guest, edit them to give them a nice look, maybe some effects to really make them pop and I was going to give them to the client. I didn't think of how many images I was taking or the medium of how to give them to the client. I was probably going to give them to her on CD. You're printing point is a great point. That can really change the cost of things, especially when you add materials.
Let me ask you something, when you shoot an event, who owns the images, you or the client? Some of your points suggest you. Am I reading that right?
R.
It can depend. If the client wants to do a "for hire" shoot where they own the images, we are willing to do that for an additional fee.
For a price, our studio will do our best to comply with any desire of the client.
Here is a post that I wrote about charging clients: This will add more questions, but in the end will help:
If you are charging for your time, your effort, your skill, you are at least for that moment a professional. So, you must be a professional for that time.
That does not mean giving up your day job, running out and buying the best equipment, or even having mastered the craft of photography.
It does mean that your service should be 100% professional.
So why do pro's charge so much? This one is easy. They have the correct equipment, they have the experience, they have the knowledge of what it takes to deliver a finished product to the client.
Now that you believe you have the right to charge a person for your abilities, ask yourself if you have the three qualities that the pro's have.
Is your equipment good enough to deliver professional results? A true pro can deliver great images with any acceptable system.
Do you have back up memory cards?
Extra batteries for your camera and flash?
Extra lenses?
Extra camera?
Have you thought about what happens if you can't make it to the shoot?
What do you do if the client is unhappy with the final images?
What happens if your computer crashes during the editing process and you lose all the images?
What if the client gets hurt during the shoot?
What happens if you get hurt during the shoot?
What happens if you can't get the images to the client on time?
What happens if you can't get to the shoot on time?
How are you billing the client?
Do you need a model release?
Do you need a property release?
Do you have a contract? Do you need one?
What do you say to the client if they want the copyright?
What kind of usage agreement do you offer to the client? And for how long?
Are you offering the images on print? On cd? on dvd?
Are you offering full resolution images?
Do you place a watermark on the images?
I am sure that if you have read this far you are starting to get the point. This is not meant to scare you, or keep you from finding paying gigs. It is however a beginning to the questions that you have to ask yourself before making the move to professional photography.
Once you charge, you are professional. (if only for that shoot)
You can be sued, you can have your budding photography career shortened by receiving a bad reputation. Simply because you were not prepared.
If this were easy, everyone would be doing it.
Insurance for your gear is not cheap.
Liability insurance is not cheap.
The correct gear is not cheap.
However, all of these are cheaper than the lawyer who will defend you in a lawsuit.
Keep in mind that in the states, getting money in a lawsuit is far easy than playing the lottery. Also keep in mind that your lawyer will charge you the same rate whether you are right or wrong.
While it is cool that your friend is offering $50 to come out and shoot the kids, the decision has to be based on sound business logic.
So the next time you wonder why the pro's charge so much, spend a few minutes considering all the things that we put up with each and every time the contract is signed.
Website
As for the legal side of things, how did you come up with a contract or liability form? Is there a place I can download one and then edit it to fit my needs?
Thanks
R.
How man images are you taking or gving the client at the end during this type of event?
R.
I had my attorney draw up all the contracts, liability releases, etc.
This is up to the client. We simply adjust our pricing to meet their needs. Events like this are usually simple candids and a handful of portraits. 50 or so images are usually more than enough. We would charge a small rate for the images and throw in web size (for facebook, etc) for free.
Website
That's a good idea though about supplying web size images for facebook and stuff.
R.
Do not guarantee any number of photos, but they get a disk of proof images (watermarked ) for facebook or web use (with digital you should be able to easily pull off 300 - 500 good images....but you need to find out who all is going to be there such as grand parents, aunts and uncles (how many family members etc etc etc) , boyfriend, other friends....if she knows of the party have the Birthday girl give you a list of who she wants pix of also as well as who mom and dad want....it is HER day after all
get to pick upto 50 - 120 images for a book (proof books still available at camera stores....real camera stores (B&H and others), not ritz or wolfs or any other chain store)
Shoot event do quick edit / process in Lightroom (or other similar software) make a disk of all edited images....and upload to a private gallery...have them pick the ones for the book print the images for the book and give them the memory book...or make a press printed book from Mpix or some other PRO lab that doesn't break you......Or offer the printed book as an upsale from the 4x6 memory book.........or bump your price for a 2nd package.......After all is said and done 150-200 images are more than enough to have in the final gallery of finished pix for purchasing enlargements and keepsakes from
I would use a flash bracket (camera rotator....not a flash rotator) for this event that raises my flash above the camera at least 6 inches (stroboframe RB4).....they keep your flash up and centered on the lens axis and they also drive the shadows mostly out of the pix.....if you have an assistant to carry your flash you can do the flash on a stick to have real mobility of the flash...
I am assuming that you can do wireless flash with you camera....if not then the flash bracket is the way to go...flash bracket + TTL cord is awesome and nearly fool proof.
Yes I can do wireless, that's a good idea. I was planning on using my fiancee as my assistant. Let me ask you any specific technique for using the wireless?
Also, the book your talking about, the proof book, any particular style of size (how may images and sizes) do you recommend? I've never used one. How many images go in a book like that?
As far as software I have CS5 and LR3, but what website are you using to allow them access to see the images but not be able to download them? What online gallery do you recommend?
As far as printing the images, I have a place by my house that does a good job printing, I just need to get pricing and what type of package deals they have.
R.
R.
The bit that I would add is you need to avoid the cardinal mistake of not haveing an agreement in place before you start. i'm not talking about some watertight legal contract. what I'm saying is you need to get together with the client and spell out in black and white what they will be getting and what you will be getting monetarily in return. No you may know these people and think that is un nessacary but it is the most important thing of all. You can do a fantastic job and give them heaps more than even they envisoned but if it is not what they were expecting and counting on, then they will be unhappy and very liklet to cause problems.
there are accounts of this happening every week.
Get on the phone or in front of them and say waddyawant? Or here's what I can do for you and this is what this that and the other will cost.
Add in extras like if they want photoshop editing or a coffeetable book made or extra prints of different sizes.... the more you spell it out and the more everyone knows whats going on the more pleasant the deal will be.
What you ant to avoid is them coming back and saying " oh, we didn't want 50 beautifully edited prints in an album for $100, we only wanted a copy of all the pics you took on a disk for 50. " And don't ever think giving the client more than what they bargained for is going to automatically make them happy.
The other thing I have to say is my repeated experience, birthday parties and the like are a pain in the but and people expect them for virtually nothing. These people are obviously dropping some serious coin on this party but don't think for a minute it nessacarily extends to you. If I hear someone complain about the undervalued price I quoted them to start with and tell me oh, we didn't want to pay that much, we only want a few snaps taken" , I think I'll snap!
They ALWAYS will tell you " We just want this or that and it will be quick and easy" then on the day it snowballs and they want double or more what they first told you.
I have had it happen to me an hour ago. I'm shooting an engagement party tonight for some people that obviously have far more $ than sense to help a shooter friend out in training him up for these things. At teh moment he has all the gear but no idea so I ( probably regretfully) agreed to him asking me to help.
already the 2 hours they oiginally asked for has blown out to 4 and now they want us to arrive even earlier for pics before the party starts.
FFS! If we do the pics before it starts, WFT are we going to do in the next 4 hours?
Of course my friend being green automatically agreed without talking any extra money so now we are stuck with it and I'm just wondering what else they will try and screw him over for before the night is out. They might be in for a tate of reality when I rock up if they try anything on.
I have to say I hate doing these things. Weddings have more of a structure and opportunity to create interesting shots. Engagements, Christening receptions, anniversatys and birthdays can be covered in 30 min and are boring as to shoot. Done my way, I get there before everything starts, Do the posed shots such as cutting the cake etc, shoot the family and guests if needed as they arrive and maybe, just maybe, I'll stay till they walk in and sit down then i'm outta there and I have every shot they will actualy want, use or buy. Yeah, they always want the 2 yo dancing but they never buy so many of those whimsical pics they pester you for at the time. Good reason to charge by the hour for attendance because that has a great effect on making them see reality.
Dose anyone else think my pre-disposed jaded attitude to these events probably means it's best I avoid them? :0)
Anyway, ake sure you talk what they want or are going to get and money before you worry about ANYTHING else and write it down on a bit of paper ( or better still email it to them so you have a verifyable copy) and then go from there.
Website
Wireless Event....I shoot Nikon D300 + SB900....so i set my pop up flash as a commander with no real output...I set my off camera flash for TTL ....not balanced TTL (just have not got it to work for me......sometimes I have to back to books to get what I am after but I try to keep the PRE flashes down...I prefer no pre flash......If I am shooting of a flash bracket i set that SB900 to commander and use as my main flash and the second SB900 to remote and either ttl or set it to be at a set power.....it depends on situation......
Tap (Taperral Loomis sp??) albums and there many other companies that make Proof / Memory books....the size is really subjective to what you are doing for Pr0ofs a 4x6 album in either 60 or 120 or so...for a memory book get 5x7 or 8x10 120 - 175 maybe 200 really good shots......Books will run from $25 and up...a lot of 1 hour places carry nice books from Pioneer Albums.....the expensive books will be sold separately: covers will cost $50-100 (or more) and each page will run $2-5 depending on styles mats and so on.....for a 15yr old keep it low and cute.......a printed book can actually cost less than a custom tap album if you shop carefully.
Website: I use Smugmug for hosting my site and set up my clients with private galleries for viewing and choosing what they want to go into the books, in the security settings set for no right click and limit the size of the pic to nothing larger than xl ...I usually limit mine to Large which is good enuff for viewing and choosing....my clients have been very conservative and do not go for Press Printed books even teenagers seem to want PHOTO ALBUMS......Always sign your work......Lower corner at least a 1/4 inch from bottom and I prefer 1/2 inch up and 1.5 inches from the side....with low dollar clients I use Photoshop to sign my work (find a font that matches real close to your own handwriting)...signature...not a © copyright statement (looks tacky) but a signature looks professional and shows it was done by a pro so no legitimate picture processor will copy (scan) and print...also if it is in the photo it can't be removed.
Yes you can ask me anything.......I always try to help........
I build my own if possible....if the cleint is booking months in advance and we have time to make the list and for me to memorize it (never carry a shot list) nor agree to get every shot on the list....every ones adrenaline is running high and events change quickly...be ready for the kiddy fight to break out....if the time is too short then charge for an assistant to keep things straight.....this assistant is like a coordinator and is in charge of the list...then you shoot what the coordinator tells you and keeping an eye open the happenings around your also.......
R.