Huge question about copyrights in state AA sanctioned events

JimKarczewskiJimKarczewski Registered Users Posts: 969 Major grins
edited February 24, 2011 in Mind Your Own Business
So, girls semi-finals are upon us, so I started looking up information about requesting credentials for the Finals in March. I'm just wondering... unfortunately I don't have a sports shooter account, how the state athletic associations, get away with this statement (specifically from Indiana's IHSAA):

IHSAA is the owner of the rights to and the copyright holder of all IHSAA Audio & Visual
Works, which includes all still photographs taken of IHSAA Tournament Series
events, all film, videotape and audiotape of IHSAA Tournament Series events
and the live audio and visual broadcasts of IHSAA Tournament Series events

but they don't state anything about fair compensation if they want to use your images to plaster over every billboard in the country.

Just curious if anyones ever run in to this before?
Jim Karczewski - http://www.jimkarczewski.com

Comments

  • angevin1angevin1 Registered Users Posts: 3,403 Major grins
    edited February 15, 2011
    JimKarczewski wrote: »
    I'm just wondering... unfortunately I don't have a sports shooter account, how the state athletic associations, get away with this statement (specifically from Indiana's IHSAA):


    How about this First line: " On April 26, 1976, Phil N. Eskew, Ward E. Brown and Charles F. Maas, as incorporators, executed and filed in the office of the Secretary of State of the State of Indiana, Articles of Incorporation for Indiana High School Athletic Association, Inc., under the provisions of the Indiana Not-For-Profit Corporation Act of 1971."

    I'd say they have a right to it! I bet you're thinking open to the public and all that...but I don't think it's like a puclic event. it's an organized event, and they have a Brand, n'es pas?
    tom wise
  • ChrisNChrisN Registered Users Posts: 25 Big grins
    edited February 16, 2011
    Overly ambitious lawyers. Just because someone says something belongs to them does not mean that it actually does or that they have any right to it. From the copyright act:

    Chapter 2 §201 · Ownership of copyright
    (a) Initial Ownership.—Copyright in a work protected under this title vests initially in the author or authors of the work. The authors of a joint work are coowners of copyright in the work.

    Chapter 2 §204 · Executionoftransfersofcopyrightownership
    (a) A transfer of copyright ownership, other than by operation of law, is not valid unless an instrument of conveyance, or a note or memorandum of the transfer, is in writing and signed by the owner of the rights conveyed or such owner’s duly authorized agent.

    My understanding of the copyright law is that the photographers owns the copyright as soon as it is taken and a copyright transfer can only take place via a written document signed by the copyright owner.

    In my opinion this is as ridiculous as me stating that I own the copyright to any photograph that any photographer ever takes of my because I am in it. While I could certainly make the statement it sure doesn't mean that anyone would take me seriously or that a court would side with me if I demanded free photos from a photographer.
  • GlortGlort Registered Users Posts: 1,015 Major grins
    edited February 16, 2011
    " Pop corn, Peanuts, git yer Hotdogs here!"

    I can just see where this thread is going to go! rolleyes1.gif
  • orljustinorljustin Registered Users Posts: 193 Major grins
    edited February 16, 2011
    JimKarczewski wrote: »
    IHSAA is the owner of the rights to and the copyright holder of all IHSAA Audio & Visual
    Works, which includes all still photographs taken of IHSAA Tournament Series
    events, all film, videotape and audiotape of IHSAA Tournament Series events
    and the live audio and visual broadcasts of IHSAA Tournament Series events

    Laughing.gif, that is funny stuff. They certainly are owner to all of the IHSAA works that they create, but they certainly do not hold copyright or usage rights to anything you shoot.
  • angevin1angevin1 Registered Users Posts: 3,403 Major grins
    edited February 16, 2011
    Glort wrote: »
    " Pop corn, Peanuts, git yer Hotdogs here!"

    I can just see where this thread is going to go! rolleyes1.gif


    Scoot over cause it has gone South!
    tom wise
  • Cygnus StudiosCygnus Studios Registered Users Posts: 2,294 Major grins
    edited February 16, 2011
    orljustin wrote: »
    Laughing.gif, that is funny stuff. They certainly are owner to all of the IHSAA works that they create, but they certainly do not hold copyright or usage rights to anything you shoot.

    Almost every large sports organization from car racing to football have express views about what they feel is theirs.

    Can they forbid your actions? Absolutely.
    Can you shoot those actions? Absolutely.
    Can you sell those images? Absolutely.
    Can they sue you until you are selling a kidney to pay the legal fees? Absolutely.

    Organizations build brands and some are more willing to protect that brand than others.

    They state their legal belief in writing for all to see.

    If you wish to challenge that legal belief, you are more than able to try.

    You may get away with it, you may be buying your attorney a new addition on their house.

    The best part is, life is full of choices.
    Steve

    Website
  • angevin1angevin1 Registered Users Posts: 3,403 Major grins
    edited February 16, 2011
    Steve, Very Well Put!
    tom wise
  • AngeloAngelo Super Moderators Posts: 8,937 moderator
    edited February 18, 2011
    Glort wrote: »
    " Pop corn, Peanuts, git yer Hotdogs here!"

    I can just see where this thread is going to go! rolleyes1.gif
    angevin1 wrote: »
    Scoot over cause it has gone South!


    add butter to the popcorn and pop a cold bottle of beer and I'll join you in the bleachers,


    .
    www.angelo.smugmug.com

    Moderator of: Location, Location, Location , Mind Your Own Business & Other Cool Shots
  • angevin1angevin1 Registered Users Posts: 3,403 Major grins
    edited February 18, 2011
    angelo wrote: »
    add butter to the popcorn and pop a cold bottle of beer and i'll join you in the bleachers,


    .

    :d It does begin to add up Doesn't it?
    tom wise
  • MomaZunkMomaZunk Registered Users Posts: 421 Major grins
    edited February 23, 2011
    So Jim...

    What have you decided to do?

    Shoot your pics and stand behind the "no written contract means their mine", or another approach.
    Dee Zunker

    Website
    Facebook Twitter Google+
  • JimKarczewskiJimKarczewski Registered Users Posts: 969 Major grins
    edited February 24, 2011
    Nothing yet. Laughing.gif, Finals aren't until March 26th.. Sectionals/Regionals start next week. Talking to some newspaper photogs I know about this as well to see what they've encountered in the past.
    Jim Karczewski - http://www.jimkarczewski.com
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