Nikon Newbie requests indoor basketball help

Lattaland

Hello Digital Grin Gang.

My name is Terri, and I have a Smugmug account.
The Superheros suggested I pick some stellar brains, on this site, about my various issues.

Here goes.
Shooting an Upward church basketball slideshow.

I have a Nikon D90.
Not pleased with what I'm able to do with the built in flash, or not a flash, thus far.

Red eye, blur, orange athletes....not a big fan of the Ompah Loompa look....to just name a few icks.

I'm editing my brains out....and not in a fun way.

I have the AF-S NIKKOR 18-105 mm 1:3.5-5.6G ED lens.
I have a longer zoom...but, am guessing I need a fast lens?

Help oh tech gods of the camera world...pretty please.
I am thinking a better lens, instead of an additional flash is the way to go?

I love some of the things I've seen your crew post.
Need to amp up my shots a bunch.

I'd appreciate any ideas, before I walk in the camera store in a tizzy.
However, I'm a tad dyslexic...so, I would appreciate watered down directions.
Very basic speak please...until I catch up with your pro lingo.

Thanks oodles.
Looking forward to chatting with you all.
Hope this post was okay.
Learning that too.

Terri
Snicker~Doodle Photography
Smugmug

Mitchell

Well, you picked one of the toughest sports to start with. Most gyms at your level are very dark dungeons and the action can be fast paced. Personally, I don't like flash for basketball unless you are able to use professional strobes mounted throughout the gym ($$$$). Please ditch the pop-up flash for these. As you found out, the photos will be terrible.

You have two basic choices. The easiest is to increase your ISO high enough to capture the action (1/250 at least) with your present lens. This will increase the digital noise in your photos, but at least they should be in focus. Better to have a photo in focus with noise than a blurry photo with no noise.

Another option woud be a faster lens. Even a fixed prime lens at f1.8 (50 or 85mm) would offer you several more stops of light over your present glass.

Tas67

Hi Terri!

I wouldn't go with flash. They can be very distracting to the players.

Personally, I would probably go with a faster lens...but it depends on your budget too. If your budget is small, you could just bump up the ISO, like Mitchell suggested. They'll be noisy but you can fix some of that in Lightroom or with Noise Ninja.

Hope this helps!

johng

Yes, if you can afford it, a better lens is the way to go. The problem with your current lens is that it is going to be very slow to focus - and when using focus tracking, you won't be using focus assist beam from a flash. So even if you master using external flash for sports (not easy to do) you're still going to be disappointed. The least expensive option with the most bang-for-the-buck would be a sigma 70-200 2.8 (they make a 50-150 but I've heard a lot more negative feedback on QC of that lens. Realize though that you'll be shooting at ISO 3200-6400 with a 2.8 lens. Another option is the Nikon 85mm 1.8 - it will give you the ability to shoot at a lower ISO, but it's more difficult to shoot with the prime lens - especially on a crop sensor body. But those would be the top choices (if you have the budget obviously the Nikon 70-200 2.8 vrII would bet the best choice but that's a lot of $$$).

Once the lens solution is taken care of, the next step is to set a custom WB in the gym to control the WB issues. A very small percentage of gyms have lighting so spread apart that the color temperature fluctuates to a great degree - meaning custom WB won't work. In those gyms shoot RAW. In most gyms though, lighting may be dim but it's constant enough given overlapping fields of light that custom WB works well - some fluctuation but tolerable.

jonh68

First cheapest thing to do is up your ISO. No cost.

Next cheapest is to get a sb-400 or whatever flash you can afford. For basketball, you can use flash and it doesn't distract the players.

The third is get a used 85 1.8 lens.

Lattaland

Thank you!
Thank you all who wrote back.

New lens it is!!!
Glad I didn't go buy a flash...
My wallet thanks you as well!

And...wondering what you all think of cards?
Which memory card will work best for my basketball in the gym shots?

I have an Optima SD HC 4GB/60HD...and some Scandisk Ultra 8GB 15Mb/s SD HC.

I'm clueless on what the difference would be.
Willing to buy a new one to use...if it will help.

Much appreciation for sharing your knowledge.

Terri ~

CFPhotography

Is this a one time event for basketball or will you be shooting multiple games? I don't know Nikon's lens lineup but using my canon I shoot with the EF50 F1.4 for indoor basketball. Sharp as a tack, super fast for indoor sports and perfect for sitting under the basket at games. I have shot alot of games with this lens this year..

The 70-200 would be good too, but it would be hard on a crop body to shoot under the basket with that lens. For the far end of the court, that lens is perfect, but if you want something under the baset go with a 50mm lens. I am sure Nikon has somehting similar to this lens.

Also, if it is just a one time event, I would rent the lens instead of laying down that much cash for one time event. I use lensrentals for my rental, easy online ordering and great prices... Anyway, good luck!

MDalby

CFPhotography wrote: »

Is this a one time event for basketball or will you be shooting multiple games? I don't know Nikon's lens lineup but using my canon I shoot with the EF50 F1.4 for indoor basketball. Sharp as a tack, super fast for indoor sports and perfect for sitting under the basket at games. I have shot alot of games with this lens this year..

The 70-200 would be good too, but it would be hard on a crop body to shoot under the basket with that lens. For the far end of the court, that lens is perfect, but if you want something under the baset go with a 50mm lens. I am sure Nikon has somehting similar to this lens.

Also, if it is just a one time event, I would rent the lens instead of laying down that much cash for one time event. I use lensrentals for my rental, easy online ordering and great prices... Anyway, good luck!

I have used my 50mm 1.4 a lot for games and you are correct that under the basket it is a nice fit... BUT... if you ever want to blow those shots up and if you have to do any cropping, the shots just don't look good. A smaller size and it is a nice lens, and pretty cheap too.

Dreadnote

It is obviously the subject of some debate about whether to use a flash or not for indoor sports, BUT a cheap set of ebay triggers and an inexpensive flash or even a pair of inexpensive flashes will cost about the same as an 85mm 1.8 and will be far far more versatile. I am of course assuming that these basketball photos will not be the only ones that you are going to take for the rest of your life. Before you spend your dollars I'd spent a couple of hours over at http://www.strobist.com and see if you don't think there is more bang for your buck out of a lighting setup then there is for fast glass. Even you you decide on faster glass (I did both) it will still most definitely be worth your time.

MJRPHOTO

Terri,
The equipment you have is not enough to shoot in any of the gyms I shoot in. To answer your question correctly We need to know what you want to do with the photos. I have gotten to the point where I must be able to print 12x18 prints minimum and up to 20x30 for the money shots if possible. The only way to do that is with a flash. Even with my D3 at 6400 ISO, SS at 1/650 min. I get grain in my 12x18 prints. They are ok until you see them next to the ones with the flash at 3200 ISO. Now if all you want are 4x6 or 5x7 than just get a flash and put it on the camera.

Here is one I shot last week:

Nikon D3
Nikon 70-200 VRII
SB-900 flash on camera @ 1/4 power
1/250 f4.5 @ 100mm
ISO 3200

Point the flash above there heads. Adjust ISO as required

JimKarczewski

You really need flash. As mentioned.. these gyms are DARK. Hell, even at gyms that aren't dark, people still use flash. I was amazed to see how bright D1 college gyms are when I shot down at Purdue. Guess what, they still use flash there too. Same with pro games. There isn't a pro basketball/hockey/etc indoor game you won't see them using flash at. There is a reason.. regardless of what all these people bitching and moaning about the use of flash and how it's distracting. It's not. Not a single person, fan, coach, ref, or other official has ever complained to me or any of the other local photographers that I work with regularly about using flash.

The cheapest way to get some off camera flash is something like Youngnou flashes. They are cheap and you can get some remote triggers from them pretty cheap too. I think for around $200 you could get 2 lights + transmitter + 2 receivers which is all you need. Clamps, well, you can find those at home depot for $1. I forgot who originally posted pictures about that, I think it was Strobist... you just need a couple clamps and lighting nipples and you are on your way.

MDalby

JimKarczewski wrote: »

You really need flash.

I agree with my man Jim and MJRPHOTO.

If you want to blow up any of your shots, you just have to use flash AND flash is really cheap compared to fast glass and really freezes the action.

JimKarczewski

http://strobist.blogspot.com/2007/02/on-assignment-speedlighting-college-gym.html

You'll see the "cheapy" green clamps in there..

hpazphotos

MJRPHOTO wrote: »

Terri,
The equipment you have is not enough to shoot in any of the gyms I shoot in. To answer your question correctly We need to know what you want to do with the photos. I have gotten to the point where I must be able to print 12x18 prints minimum and up to 20x30 for the money shots if possible. The only way to do that is with a flash. Even with my D3 at 6400 ISO, SS at 1/650 min. I get grain in my 12x18 prints. They are ok until you see them next to the ones with the flash at 3200 ISO. Now if all you want are 4x6 or 5x7 than just get a flash and put it on the camera.

Here is one I shot last week:

Nikon D3
Nikon 70-200 VRII
SB-900 flash on camera @ 1/4 power
1/250 f4.5 @ 100mm
ISO 3200

Point the flash above there heads. Adjust ISO as required

Hey Mike - i notice your thread and would like to get some advice. i will be shooting indoor basketball for the first time at a local community center. I have a d300 and will be using the 70-200 vr lens. can you give me a quick run on the type of settings i should have for my camera. what wb should i set at, etc.
your feedback is appreciated.

MDalby

hpazphotos wrote: »

Hey Mike - i notice your thread and would like to get some advice. i will be shooting indoor basketball for the first time at a local community center. I have a d300 and will be using the 70-200 vr lens. can you give me a quick run on the type of settings i should have for my camera. what wb should i set at, etc.
your feedback is appreciated.

I can't speak for Mike but I don't think Mike can really answer your question for you. You are going to have to take a reading there in the gym and determine what is best. If you are shooting young kids, you can get away with a slower SS. If you are not shooting with a flash, you can maybe use a SS as low as 500 and avoid most blur if you pan with the shooter. I don't like to shoot with anything less than f/3.2 or with flashes I like 3.5. That will give you more DOF and shots in focus and get more usable shots. But, that could kick up your ISO to very high levels if your gym is dark.

That is my .02 worth.

MD