Converting Color Profile to Working Space

sara505

I've set my CS5 color work space up to Adobe RGB 1998, and now every time I open a new file I get a msg telling me the file's embedded color profile doesn't match and asking me if I want to convert.

Is there a way set it up so I am not asked this question for every file?

I looked in Preferences, but don't see anything.

Thanks.

pathfinder

It is in the Color Settings

Go to Edit>Color Settings> and you will see this dialogue box, and you can set your choices about working space, and what to do about profile mismatches. I see that I have not set mine yet either....

pathfinder

I think this is closer to my preferences, I prefer ProPhoto for most tasks, except saving rendered files, and usually prefer to keep files in their existing color spaces, unless I have a specific reason to change it. Like when saving jpgs for the web.

sara505

pathfinder wrote: »

I think this is closer to my preferences, I prefer ProPhoto for most tasks, except saving rendered files, and usually prefer to keep files in their existing color spaces, unless I have a specific reason to change it. Like when saving jpgs for the web.

Thank you!!!!

arodney

Its all about the warning check boxes. Initially it is useful to know that images you open do not match the preferred working space you set. If you have the policies set to Preserve, no harm. And if you set the document to show you the color space (little triangle at the bottom of the document window OR Info palette), you can check to see what the working space is for each document. The Convert policy is somewhat dangerous and OFF policy just awful.

sara505

arodney wrote: »

Its all about the warning check boxes. Initially it is useful to know that images you open do not match the preferred working space you set. If you have the policies set to Preserve, no harm. And if you set the document to show you the color space (little triangle at the bottom of the document window OR Info palette), you can check to see what the working space is for each document. The Convert policy is somewhat dangerous and OFF policy just awful.

So, are you saying it's best not to convert to Adobe's working space?

pathfinder

I keep my files in ProPhoto ( in Lightroom ) unless I am converting them to 8 bit for printing or for export.

I use sRGB for files destined for web based images, or images I am printing on my Epson 3800. I can, of course, print from 16 bit ProPhoto files within Lightroom, but my printer does not really have a gamut to display ProPhoto colors, so I tend to use sRGB. One could easily choose to print from aRGB within Lightroom as well.

If you are having an image printed by an external printer or publisher who needs Adobe RGB then I would convert for files sent to them.

The gamut of aRGB is larger than sRGB, but the gradations are also wider in aRGB. I would not convert a ProPhoto file to aRGB just to store it or to archive it. I keep all 16 bit tiffs and psds in Prophoto myself. Others may disagree.

arodney

sara505 wrote: »

So, are you saying it's best not to convert to Adobe's working space?

Adobe space being Adobe RGB (1998)? Depends on when. If you have documents that are not in that space, then converting isn’t usually useful. Where did the documents come from? Are they in a wider or narrower gamut space? Blindly converting to this space is bad idea. The Convert policy does this with a warning if the check box is on, more dangerous automatically when the warning check box is off. There are few reasons when you’d want to automatically convert data into a working space, especially without a warning (the one workflow I could see is a web designer who always needs data in sRGB to post to the web, they just need an automatic conversion to do this). Otherwise, the Preserve policy keeps data in the original color space when opening in Photoshop. You can always convert after opening that data!

sara505

arodney wrote: »

Adobe space being Adobe RGB (1998)? Depends on when. If you have documents that are not in that space, then converting isn’t usually useful. Where did the documents come from? Are they in a wider or narrower gamut space? Blindly converting to this space is bad idea. The Convert policy does this with a warning if the check box is on, more dangerous automatically when the warning check box is off. There are few reasons when you’d want to automatically convert data into a working space, especially without a warning (the one workflow I could see is a web designer who always needs data in sRGB to post to the web, they just need an automatic conversion to do this). Otherwise, the Preserve policy keeps data in the original color space when opening in Photoshop. You can always convert after opening that data!

Yes, I have my CS5 color working space set to Adobe RGB (1998).

The documents that come through are sRGB, most everything comes via LR.

So, it seems, in general, that I should choose Preserve.

arodney

sara505 wrote: »

Yes, I have my CS5 color working space set to Adobe RGB (1998).
The documents that come through are sRGB, most everything comes via LR.
So, it seems, in general, that I should choose Preserve.

Yes, Preserve, but then the question is, why sRGB from Lightroom?

Anthony

sara505 wrote: »

Yes, I have my CS5 color working space set to Adobe RGB (1998).

The documents that come through are sRGB, most everything comes via LR.

So, it seems, in general, that I should choose Preserve.

...Or send out images as Adobe RGB(1998) from Lightroom of course! :-)

A little more seriously... I'm a little puzzeld as to why you might create output from LR in sRGB and then work in Adobe RGB(1998) in Photoshop. Better, I imagine to create output in Adobe RB(1998) and use that throughout.

Anthony.

arodney

IF you export low rez images out of LR for web output, sRGB is ideal. Using Preserve allows you to deal with the sRGB doc in Photoshop and move on. IF you are exporting full Rez images to LR for lots of work, then doing this is NOT a good idea, you’ve thrown away way too much color info. I have full size export presets for LR to produce ProPhoto 16-bit TIFFs. That data goes into Photoshop for all further pixel editing and becomes the new high rez master. I have Photoshop set for ProPhoto RGB as well but with preserve, the times I want to export low rez sRGB files for web work or similar, no issues. The images open in PS in sRGB and off I go.

So the option for the working space should be based on what you intent to do with the image.

Anthony

arodney wrote: »

IF you export low rez images out of LR for web output, sRGB is ideal.

[..]

Good points Andrew, fully understood. I suppose that my thinking was if further work was required on an image necessitating the use of Photoshop, then the later the image was converted to sRGB (ready for web use or whatever) the better.

Anthony.

arodney

I’d export in a wider space if the document needed editing and was going to other output devices (than web). One can easily resize and convert from larger (ProPhoto RGB) to small (sRGB) space later. You can’t go the opposite direction.

sara505

tbh- I have no idea where the srgb profile originates.

I process 99.99% of everything in LR before PS ever sees it. All I know is, since I changed the working space in PS, I get those "mismatched" messages.

Now I'm totally confused

sara505

The thing is, I don't remember ever touching the color settings in LR.

I'm in Preferences right now, and clicking through the options, LR seems to be suggesting ProPhoto RGB/16 bits "for best preserving color details..."

Apparently I have been clueless, thus far.

(and have somehow managed...)

sara505

But if I change to ProPhoto RGB/16 bits in LR, what happens to my color work space in PS?

arodney

sara505 wrote: »

But if I change to ProPhoto RGB/16 bits in LR, what happens to my color work space in PH?

There are two ways to get images into PS from LR: Export (you build as many export presets as you like, defining color space, size, film format) OR Edit in Photoshop which is where you are seeing this recommendation for ProPhoto.

sara505

arodney wrote: »

There are two ways to get images into PS from LR: Export (you build as many export presets as you like, defining color space, size, film format) OR Edit in Photoshop which is where you are seeing this recommendation for ProPhoto.

What I do is process all my RAW files in LR, export to a folder. When/if I need to further process in PS, I open PS>open file>select image(s) from folder.

This has become quite confusing.

sara505

arodney wrote: »

There are two ways to get images into PS from LR: Export (you build as many export presets as you like, defining color space, size, film format) OR Edit in Photoshop which is where you are seeing this recommendation for ProPhoto.

I'm seeing the recommendation for ProPHoto in LR, btw.

sara505

Thanks, everyone. Sam is rescuing me via phone.

pathfinder

Sarah, there is no need to export files from LR to a folder in order to edit them in Photoshop. Just right click on the image in LR which opens a dialogue box, and click on Edit in -->> CS5 or whatever your preference is -> LR will send a 16 bit ProPhoto tiff to CS5 for your editing. You can then save that file from within Photoshop in whatever manner your heart's desire - sRGB, aRGB, jpg, tiff etc. This saved file will then be imported into LR automagically, as you saved it. Done!!

If you prefer to edit an image in LR from a stage earlier than your final edit in LR ( maybe the original unedited RAW file ) , just click on the history panel in LR at the beginning, and hit ctrl-' and you will create a new virtual duplicate RAW file that you can edit in CS5 however you desire. That is the beauty of metadata editing - you can always return to an earlier location in your editing flow, and create a duplicate at that specific stage for whatever purpose you need.

On of the real advantages of LR over Bridge, in my opinion, is that EVERY STEP I perform in RAW editing in LR is always revoke-able, I can immediately return to an earllier step in the History panel, while in Bridge, I can change the values, but cannot see the result in advance the way I can with the history panel in LR.

Good onya Sam!!

Anthony

sara505 wrote: »

[..]

Now I'm totally confused

My apologies if my contribution has created any confusion... this wasn't my intention.

Anthony.

sara505

pathfinder wrote: »

Sarah, there is no need to export files from LR to a folder in order to edit them in Photoshop. Just right click on the image in LR which opens a dialogue box, and click on Edit in -->> CS5 or whatever your preference is -> LR will send a 16 bit ProPhoto tiff to CS5 for your editing. You can then save that file from within Photoshop in whatever manner your heart's desire - sRGB, aRGB, jpg, tiff etc. This saved file will then be imported into LR automagically, as you saved it. Done!!

If you prefer to edit an image in LR from a stage earlier than your final edit in LR ( maybe the original unedited RAW file ) , just click on the history panel in LR at the beginning, and hit ctrl-' and you will create a new virtual duplicate RAW file that you can edit in CS5 however you desire. That is the beauty of metadata editing - you can always return to an earlier location in your editing flow, and create a duplicate at that specific stage for whatever purpose you need.

On of the real advantages of LR over Bridge, in my opinion, is that EVERY STEP I perform in RAW editing in LR is always revoke-able, I can immediately return to an earllier step in the History panel, while in Bridge, I can change the values, but cannot see the result in advance the way I can with the history panel in LR.

Good onya Sam!!

Pathfinder - I have a much better understanding of the workspace situation, in both LR and PS (thanks, Sam!), so I think I know what I'm doing now.

The truth is, though, most of the time I am finished once I've done my editing in LR, so I send everything from there to a folder. Occasionally I do need to go back in and tweak something in PS, I access the folder from there.

I'm sure there's a better way to do this - I have yet to fully tap into LR's power - but for now, this works for me.

For now, I have my workspaces set, "preserve embedded" selected, with no pesky "do you want to convert" messages. :-)

sara505

Anthony wrote: »

My apologies if my contribution has created any confusion... this wasn't my intention.

Anthony.

No need to apologize. I am easily confused scratch

pathfinder

Sarah, no need to feel bad.

I prepare files for my Smugmug account, and sometimes after looking at them online, I decide they need just a tiny adjustment in one way or another, and I will pull the sRGB jpg into PS to make the adjustment.

Not the best approach theoretically, but one that works just fine for me if the adjustments are small just the same. Sounds kind of like what you are doing.

Dan7312

In general there are two reasons to export images from LR to a folder. One to make final jpg's you intented to post to the web, sell or whatever. The other is do further processing in Photoshop of the images. The exports you would do in each of these cases is different.

If you are exporting final jpg images that you intend to print, post to the web, or sell/give away, export these images as jpg's in the sRGB colorspace.

If you intend to to further processing of these images in Photoshop you want to preserve all the color information you can so you would do the export as TIFF or PSD and use the ProPhoto colorspace. That would give you the maximum flexiblity to do "fix ups" in Photoshop. Then from Photoshop you would generate the final jpg's in the sRGB colorspace (or possibly some other color space, depending on what the person who will get the images intends to do with them.

sara505 wrote: »

I'm seeing the recommendation for ProPHoto in LR, btw.

sara505

Dan7312 wrote: »

In general there are two reasons to export images from LR to a folder. One to make final jpg's you intented to post to the web, sell or whatever. The other is do further processing in Photoshop of the images. The exports you would do in each of these cases is different.

If you are exporting final jpg images that you intend to print, post to the web, or sell/give away, export these images as jpg's in the sRGB colorspace.

If you intend to to further processing of these images in Photoshop you want to preserve all the color information you can so you would do the export as TIFF or PSD and use the ProPhoto colorspace. That would give you the maximum flexiblity to do "fix ups" in Photoshop. Then from Photoshop you would generate the final jpg's in the sRGB colorspace (or possibly some other color space, depending on what the person who will get the images intends to do with them.

Thanks, Dan. This is pretty much what I learned from Sam the other day on the phone and it's good to see it reiterated - at least now I know Sam knows what he's talking about