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Inexperience in wedding need advice for upcoming wedding.
Hello Wedding Guru's,
I am inexperienced in weddings, a total noob and need advice for an upcoming wedding I am doing for a family member (actually not blood related but like a mom to me as she was one of my late mother in laws closest friends). Her daughter is getting married :barb.
Most of my expereince is with anything but weddings.
Details:
This will be an outdoor ceremony around 2-3PM in mid september in North Carolina so lighting will be border line OK. The reception will be held indoor at a reception hall nearby. The bride, groom and bridal party are african american. My wife ,Son and I will be covering it. I prefer using a flash, off camera, and indirect as much as possible.
Advice
I would like advice on scheduling. When I need to do an e-session, formal bridal portrait to have printed and framed before the wedding and for the newspaper.
What kind of questions do I need to ask to get a sense of their photographics style, traditional or more modern.
Is there anything I need to watch out for an outdoor wedding.
Any tricks on how to properly expose the range of skin tones that will be in the same frame. This is something I struggle with with very dark skinned people next to lighter skin.
Timing of events before and after the ceremony specifically I would like to get the formals done as quick as possible.
Any other advice ya'll mayy have.
I know this is a lot to ask but I appreciate ya'll for taking the time to help.
I am inexperienced in weddings, a total noob and need advice for an upcoming wedding I am doing for a family member (actually not blood related but like a mom to me as she was one of my late mother in laws closest friends). Her daughter is getting married :barb.
Most of my expereince is with anything but weddings.
Details:
This will be an outdoor ceremony around 2-3PM in mid september in North Carolina so lighting will be border line OK. The reception will be held indoor at a reception hall nearby. The bride, groom and bridal party are african american. My wife ,Son and I will be covering it. I prefer using a flash, off camera, and indirect as much as possible.
Advice
I would like advice on scheduling. When I need to do an e-session, formal bridal portrait to have printed and framed before the wedding and for the newspaper.
What kind of questions do I need to ask to get a sense of their photographics style, traditional or more modern.
Is there anything I need to watch out for an outdoor wedding.
Any tricks on how to properly expose the range of skin tones that will be in the same frame. This is something I struggle with with very dark skinned people next to lighter skin.
Timing of events before and after the ceremony specifically I would like to get the formals done as quick as possible.
Any other advice ya'll mayy have.
I know this is a lot to ask but I appreciate ya'll for taking the time to help.
0
Comments
metering...do not rely on cameras reflected meter...use a handheld INCIDENT flash / ambient meter for best results.
that way you are not relying on the clothing or skin to reflect the light back to the camera for a reading, plus incident meters are from my experience much more accurate than camera meters in most cases......
Shoot in raw....for ease of processing
Posing and Shots: sent PM reply by email to included email addy............
Pick a style that will work for YOU....You need to have a style to offer and stick with it, so it becomes second nature to you........
yes use flash, do not see what you shoot with, but with Nikon the I-TTL system is great
I do recommend using a camera rotating flash bracket to keep flash up over the lens and high enuff to not get red eye in all shots, a diffusing doem or some modifier (I like the domes that Nikon inludes with teh SB900's , similar to STO_FEN) and LumiQuest soft boxes...light weight and do a great job.......Mostly any more I am shooting more and more with the Dome modifiers............
Use a tripod as much as possible especially outdoors....wind is a problem here in Ks ..........
Watch out for....hmmm.......unruly children, seems when a wedding moves outdoors then people do not play by the same rules etiquette and allow the kids to run and roam freely even during the ceremony......wind mussing up hair, dresses, tuxes etc etc..........
I would go through all of the stickies in the forum, it is an absolute wealth of information. Also take a moment to try a search some of your questions, I'm sure you'll find many answers there as well. Lastly, research, research, research. Look at as many photos as you can, read as many articles and posts and blogs about it as you can and you'll be doing yourself a favor.
That said, here are my two cents:
I can't help much with your first question with regard to the newspaper - I've never had that experience. I would take the opportunity to do both the e-session and the bridal shoot separately so you'll get some critique and a chance to learn in between.
What kind of questions do I need to ask to get a sense of their photographics style, traditional or more modern.
--> Without your own examples to draw from because this is your first wedding, I would give the couple a very short list of a few of your favorite photographers who's styles you draw inspiration from and see if there is one that they prefer over another.
Is there anything I need to watch out for an outdoor wedding.
--> There will be tons in the stickies and archives on this... there is a lot of information to cover so start doing some serious research on this!
Any tricks on how to properly expose the range of skin tones that will be in the same frame. This is something I struggle with with very dark skinned people next to lighter skin.
--> I would over-expose by one-half to one full stop on the lightest section of the lightest skin. Use spot metering to measure this. You may have to adjust some tones in post as well.
Timing of events before and after the ceremony specifically I would like to get the formals done as quick as possible.
--> Work on the schedule with the bride. Count backwards and forwards from the start of the ceremony to figure everything out and build in a lot of extra time. I know we have multiple posts on this topic in the forum...
Any other advice ya'll may have.
--> Your job during the day is to stay calm and cool, the couple will probably count on you to help make sure that the day flows well, so do your thing efficiently, be friendly and tactful, and keep a calm front even if there is total chaos.
+1 on Art's comment about RAW... get another CF card if you need the extra space, but I think just about everyone will agree that RAW is 100% necessary for weddings.
Also, do not be afraid of reflectors. I'm a big advocate of using them outdoors. Get a silver and a sunlight reflector and recruit an assistant to help you out. Some clean, beautiful light can be achieved by placing the subject in the shade and bouncing some sunlight into the space. They're cheap and very useful tools.
Exhibit A:
Spread the love! Go comment on something!
Don't try to do lots of new things all at the same time, you'll just end up getting stressed, and that's when cock ups happen. Concentrate on getting well exposed (RAW gives you some wriggle room) in focus images of all the main moments during the day.
Practice taking shots of people walking towards you (aisle shots), at least light won't be in short supply so that helps a lot. Also practise 2 or 3 simple poses for couples, brides and grooms.
When outside, keep aware of the direction of the sun and position yourself and use fill flash accordingly (AV mode with high speed sync is an easy option).
BTW, personally I wouldn't bother with the separate meter, the in camera system is pretty good in my experience, certainly if you're shooting raw. Using a meter will kill spontaneity and make you miss shots.
Get the shoe shot and the cake shot...make them interesting...think angles...look for the direction of ambient light...as maybe it washes across the cake...casting a slight shadow...shoot from several angles looking for that special light that best defines the cake.
Dress shot...be sure to bring a good hangar...something with fluff...you'll be surprised how many expensive bridal gowns are hung on cheap plastic hangars. Look for a cool place to hang it...in front of a window as outside light washes over it...etc
Get the ring shot separately...off of their hands...find a flower...or some other interesting background and try some optional lighting...
Detail shots...like table set up...bride's maid's flowers
Get some behind the scenes images...more if the family is heavily involved in preparation, if not, less. They seem always to be a big hit with the bride and the involved family...time permitting.
Kissing...generally it's better if you capture the just before and the right after...no puckering...hardly ever looks good...do the movie star stuff...lean in, lips slightly parted...snap just before their lips touch....or just as...and then capture the look of satisfaction after the kiss...the smile, etc.
Be aware of your ambient light when outside...sun behind and fill flash from the front...it's nice to be able to use the sun as a rim light...and fill from the opposite side. Experiment here...find out what works with your style and your camera...you will generally want to reduce your flash output by what is needed in order not to over-light the subjects...start at -1 f-stop...and work from there. Regardless of what people tell you, you will not be able to judge the quality of your image using the camera's rear LED display...it's too small...and even if you have time to zoom in...you will not catch the small things that can blow your image...so, that's why I say take several of each when shooting the bride /groom...and one or two of the others as you see fit. I've found that when you cover all the right people with adequate shots...that even though you don't incorporate some of what you thought were better shots, the client usually doesn't miss them. I think my motto has become, "okay...one more." Always look for shade...an interesting tree...or somehthing that will block the sun for your formals outdoors...harsh shadows are your enemy.
The Bride getting ready, the groom getting ready. Much more bride than groom...remembering always that it's her special day...
Dress shots...bridals...engagement shots (This depends on how fast you will be able to get them out to the bride for publication and how fast they are. Note that the bride...may want to use your pictures...bridals / engagement shots at the wedding...so you'll have to give them lead time in order that your images can be chosen, printed and framed.)
Watch out for flash shadows in the formals. If you don't use an umbrella...to scatter / diffuse the light, you may find out that you have some nasty shadows behind your subjects...so be careful here. That way you avoid the aha...oh crap words in the same sentence...lol.
Be sure to capture shots of everyone the bride and groom hold dear...their parents, grandparents, best friends...friends of the family. Get a shot of the officiate...pastor, preacher, etc. Sometimes the bride and groom are very close to their pastor. Get location shots...indoors, and outdoors....
Get many shots of the bride in her dress...before, during, and after the ceremony...first dance with husband, father, or significant other...do the same for the groom. They will want them...and you will need as many good shots as possible. You'll find yourself culling some of the shots that you thought were nice due to OOF, background problems, irksome facial issues during candids, that's where you shoot what you know is a killer image...say the bride is interacting with her brides maids...only to find out that she has a very unflattering smirk or weird lips...well, you get the picture...those are culls and not to be presented to the bride for review.
When shooting...take several of the same shot...zoom in...normal...and zoom out. You'll never know how many great shots can't be resized due to not enough room to properly crop to the right ratio for the desired print size.
The best over all advice is to be calm...watchful...always working...and get the shots you think they will want, and the ones you want. Be mindful of angles, people in the BG, people intruding from the sides...wall's with vertical lines in the BG...where light in your BG can go from one color to several shades darker right in the middle of the image...just because of an alcove...or change in the wall dimentions...so flat is better...or should I say continous...oh well.
Be aware of daylight bright windows appearing/spilling sunlight into your photo from behind. You don't have to shoot too many of these to realize what I mean.
You should always be looking for shots that evoke emotion, and especially be aware of any interaction between the bride/wife, and groom/husband. Capture the tender moments, and the funny moments...those are sure to be keepers.
One more note before I sign off...whew...shoot within your ability. If you are used to using your camera in P...and not familiar with shooting manual...then that's what you do. Otherwise, you are going to set up a manual shot...move to the next room / position...and not change the settings and miss some shots...and...with weddings...things are often continous...so no do overs...panic can set in really quickly...causing your mind to go blank while you, with one eye, watch the ceremony, dance, or whatever go by as you try to figure out what to do to get back to shooting good images with the other eye...lol. Has it every happened to me...yes...not a good feeling. It's funny how a very expensive camera can seem like a very cheap brick all of a sudden...
Well, that's my rant...hope this gives you some ideas.
Educate yourself like you'll live forever and live like you'll die tomorrow.
Ed
This is great advice and I am glad I asked for help on this wedding section. I am even more grateful for you to sacrifice a part of your day to help me.
Thank ya'll so much for
Art- The posing and shot list is awesome, all of your experience is reflected in this list. I'll memorize it so it will be a mentalist, thank goodness I have time. I agree with you about using incident meters. The camera will lie, and in my experience Ligthroom and Photoshop auto exposure will lie too (uh oh I prob. shouldn't have said that) I should probably post about that, it will be an interesting discussion.....
Thank you for sharing your professional experiences so we may be better for it, you are a gentlemen and a scholar.
P.S. My wife loves this list, as I mentioned in my email she is a planner, and your list is a stress lifter.
Kristin-Thank you for sharing your advice, I'll defiantly research the forum this is a great place to learn, as well as other areas in books and on the web to learn more. I will post a few examples of stuff I have done so you can see some of my work. I agree with over exposing. I usually overexpose 1/2-1 full stop over b/c lowering exposure does not introduce noise and you can adjust people in a group shot individually based on their skin tones. That being said getting exposure correct in full sun using a flash is really hard using the camera's metering so my Sekonic L-358 helps with that. I do use reflectors almost all the time and always shoot in RAW. RAW has saved me from time to time.
BTW your Exhibit A:
A must stand for awesome! This shot looks like it should be in a magazine.
?The DoF between the subject and background, did you PS this or did this come out of the camera like this? Impressive!
Sarah- Thank you for settling the battle I was having in my mind. Your advice was a blessing that has calmed my me and I am sleeping better
You see, I do live event stuff where I take a shot and using an Eyefi card send it through the air to software that processes and gets ready to print. I was thinking about incorporating this to have a slide show play of photos I was taking for the formals between the ceremony and reception. I have one of "my helpers-aka my son(s)" select the best ones for the live slideshow. Technically I can do it but I will take your advice and "Keep it Simple". After all its just something else to worry about right now.
The whole sun, clouds, people moving thing is a challenge and I will have to practice. I have a cancer walk event coming up at the end of the month that should provide good practice for this.
Ed- Fellow North Carolinian! Thank you for your help! I'm an ECU graduate and love NC especially eastern NC.
The coat hanger advice "priceless". You are so right, my wife’s $1000(in 1995) dress was on and still is on a metal hanger.
“Kissing...generally it's better if you capture the just before and the right after...no puckering.” Yes!!!!!! This is one of my pet peeves, you know the full on get a room kiss shot. I have told couples to play a game and see how close they can get without touching lips. This works on many levels, its fun, they forget about me taking pictures etc. I need to try to dig up one of these shots to show.
“Be aware of the ambient light outside…” OMG panic attack… I have to take formals outside, oh no I hopw there is shade, …. Remain calm David remain calm………
I will have to go and scout this location, it’s somewhere in Winston Salem….. to take some test shots or I will be way to stressed.
I will have to remember your best advice over all is to be calm and stay within my comfort zone.
Thanks again!
DavidBroadwell.com, My Smugmug Home
#1 Swim team photo at 6:00PM on June 101F
Full sun is behind to the right. Fill flash is in from to the left.
Took a meter reading, I believe I set camera settings to contribute 50% of light to flash
This is a different subject every minute or so I set my camera then will adjust shutter as needed based on the histogram in the back.
#2 Senior shot at late evening light
Used 2 remote flashes slightly behind and to the left of subject.
I wish I captured her hole left foot.
More of her
#3 Shot this at a wedding reception for a coworker as a background - mood of the event type shot.
I have actually sold prints of this one to complete strangers...go figure
Other shots of the dinner. The venue had mirrors every where ----nightmare! The middle photo of the groom and his friends, I was inspired by Platon for this type shot.
Chef and wait staff - Dude with patch, always cool.
#4 This is the sports stuff I do. This example is post processing effects clients can request.
more sports
Live event stuff
my wife took the AirForce one....I love that composition, this shot was done with a point in shoot and it is straight out of the camera.
DavidBroadwell.com, My Smugmug Home
I hate to have to say this but in your best interest I must tell you frankly that the selective DOF (via PS I assume) around the water borders is pretty butched on this shoot... I'd advise going back to the 'keep it simple' motto or just refining it a bit since the sky borders are fine, but its very sketchy in the water. The wand tool should have zero problem getting those bits that have been missed since there's so much contrast between the warm skin tones and cool background compounded with the focus point.
I'm going to shoot my first wedding quite soon myself so that's how I came upon your posts. I had to say something constructive... that's what this place is for!
Ed - fantastic list!
Hey Art, would love learn about your posing as well
Thanks for the critique Ed.
You cought me
I agree with you about the PS croping! You see, the pool was supposed to be closed during the swimteam photos but it wasn't. The backround had kids splashing, towels a lot of people arround etc. I used the wand tool but I struggled b/c it gave a slight blur on the edge. I could have done a better job but had a tight deadline of getting 40 or so images to the lab in 3 days.
I have leraned now a better way to do it is to use the extract filter. Next time I'm going to shoot 3/4 view of them in the water looking up at the camera.
What I wanted to show was how I used the off camera flash to expose in direct sun. One thing I wish I had done better was to have another flash or reflector bumping up the lower half (legs) of the swimmer to evenly expose. Her face is brighter than her legs.
DavidBroadwell.com, My Smugmug Home
(All of the following images were taken late morning, mid-day, or mid-afternoon, telephoto, with zero flash or other light modification and as far as I can remember, no burning / dodging... I know they are not "formal" portraits, and to do that you usually do have to follow a bit stricter requirements, but either way I would rather shoot tele and shallow than have to do anything in PS...)
=Matt=
My SmugMug Portfolio • My Astro-Landscape Photo Blog • Dgrin Weddings Forum
I love all of 'em - probably because they aren't. lol
(#4 the face seems slightly washed)
=Matt=
My SmugMug Portfolio • My Astro-Landscape Photo Blog • Dgrin Weddings Forum
Thank YOU for the Kind words......
Be careful....some grooms are going to do the tongue thing as he kisses and it normally makes the BRIDE angry...but generally just as the lips meet one during and then just as they separate....also I think in the "list" you re-do in the intimates so you get really nice romantic kiss shots, but do not be afraid ....if you have any questions do not hesitate to email, pm or post here also......yes the get as close as you can without touching lips is a fun one, I forgot to include.....I also like the nose touch especially if the groom is tall enuff to look down into her eyes..........Do not PANIC...or take a hit of Valium....just kidding....:D:D:D
Shade is always good but if none then again use the incident meter especially on the white dress....there are some great shot ideas on this forum for when shooting out doors......
Matt,
Dude, rockin' images I like your work! All of your models are absolutely beautiful and you do them justice.
Great idea about the shade(darker background to seperate the sub). I agree with you about shooting tele, but unfortunately sometimes you don't have the realestate to do so. Long shadow light is the best but it seems all my sports photos are going to be in devils light b/c the shoots are scheduled arround practices.
The wedding will be at 3:00 in september so the light should be good then here in NC.
Thanks for the "tiny piece of shade".
Art- That would be awesome if that happens and the bride gets mad. The photo of the brides rxn would be priceless! Thanks for the heads up so I will be watching it.
Question - Should I meter the brides dress and the highlights of her face? I don't know how dark skinned she is.
DavidBroadwell.com, My Smugmug Home
And if the bright sun is locking you down at f/11 or whatever and ruining your beautiful depth, your next best friend if you can't do tele and fast is a ND filter on a 50 1.4 or something. Kill everything by ~5 stops, crank up the flash power, and shoot at f/2! :-)
I actually do a lot of jobs involving children as well, but they're mostly theater so I have the good fortune of a PITCH BLACK background, haha. Makes everything sooo much easier!
=Matt=
My SmugMug Portfolio • My Astro-Landscape Photo Blog • Dgrin Weddings Forum
with an incident meter the darkness or lightness of skin and whiteness of dress rarely make a huge difference....normally the difference will be so small that a very slight bump in post is all that is needed.....Just put the dome of the meter towards the camera and meter either ambient or flash...set camera and go......
Here is a couple non wedding pix I can show...did not have subject near the meter when I set up....I sat on stool used meter to fire flashes and was done.....
1-
and without changing anything......
2-
I use a Sekonic L558 but a lesser expensive L358 will do just great or anyone of several other brands of incident flash/ambient light meter........
have not done any 1st time brides in a while so no white dresses to shoot or display.......the church I run sound at is having an authentic African Wedding this summer, unfortunately the family is bringing in their own photographer and African wild game for eating....but I will be on had to see this festival as the church is invited.
What f-stop reduction/optical density do you suggest? 0.3, 0.9, 1.2, 5 stops would be 1.5?
DavidBroadwell.com, My Smugmug Home
Thanks Art for the examples, great work.
This is why I use a meter b/c if you get the exposure correct it will give room to work on the hot and cold spots.
This is the closest thing I have done. The white karate gi and the male is very dark skinned with his wife who is lighter. This shot is straight out of the camera. I was shooting chroma-key which was difficult-impossible to keep the blue from spilling on the white- thats a different topic all together.
I do remember taking a class and the teacher said if the subject was in the shade meter at 50% flash. You can dial the Sekonic L358 to adjust exposure with 100% of light attributed to flash down to something like 10%. Anyway he said 50% of light from the flash will expose the best in the shade.
DavidBroadwell.com, My Smugmug Home
I'm in the same exact situation right now! my wedding is happening in May, I got this book, glad I did! I read it in 4 days! it's a wealth of information!
sorry the pic is fuzzy...
the Author is Glen Johnson - John Wiley & Sons (2006)
It is vain to do with more what can be done with less. - William of Occam (c. 1288-1348)
I've read this book...one of the best I've come across. Highly recommended.
Educate yourself like you'll live forever and live like you'll die tomorrow.
Ed
Just use the sunny sixteen rule of thumb, and kill stops down from 16!
=Matt=
My SmugMug Portfolio • My Astro-Landscape Photo Blog • Dgrin Weddings Forum
Kill the stops!! Killll
Art. I've enjoyed reading some of your posts. I shoot senior portraits and weddings and was wondering if you cared to share your poses list for weddings with me. Thanks!
KC