Smug Mug support does not reply-who will

PwF

I have sent this question twice to the Smug Mug group and received NO reply to either.:scratch
So I ask it here.
What does Smug Mug do for Pro members who shoot for stock?
I don't have much need to sell prints, even though I will if asked, but I see nothing on this site that says anything about promoting photographer's stock images.
Does it or doesn't it, and if so, what?

Andy

Hi, I checked our system and we did indeed reply, within about 20mins of you writing us on Feb 1, 2011. Here's the ticket (#225328) :



Perhaps it's stuck in your spam folder?

We'd love to have a marketplace for Stock, but we don't yet. Maybe one day. We do have pros who sell stock though, via their sites on SmugMug. Happy to help if you have more questions, thanks!

PwF

If you replied I didn't get it, but this answers some things.

As for the Buy Downloads feature,
why wouldn't that work just fine for stock image sales?
What else would downloads be good for? Even if some one wanted an image for their web use, that is still selling them a stock image.

Is there a page that tells about selling downloads?
It is not easy to find things on your site.
Smug Mug really needs a "sitemap or index" page like this one has.
As it is now I could go through a half dozen pages to find the one I want.
And even then I don't find it.

Pupator

You could search for "stock photography" on these forums and perhaps find some threads that would help you understand why it's not as simple as you think.

Perhaps this page - which was about 3 clicks from the homepage - is what you're looking for?
http://www.smugmug.com/help/sell-digital-downloads

Andy

PwF wrote: »

Is there a page that tells about selling downloads?

yes

http://www.smugmug.com/help/sell-digital-downloads
http://www.smugmug.com/prints/digital-downloads

PwF

Thanks! That tells me most of what I needed to know.
But now I have one last question about downloads.

The pricing & buying system this feature has won't work for me.
I sell for commercial uses, but I can not set one price for any and all uses.
An image for a background can sell for a few hundred dollars but the same image used for a sales ad can go for 10 times more, so my new questions is,
"does this site have any problem if I stated in my galleries that all images are available for stock downloads, and can be ordered from my web site."
Then I would price and sell the images from there.
Does anyone work this way that you know of?

Also, I saw one person that had an old Tintype image that they promoted and prices in their image caption. Is that ok to do on this site?

Thanks again!!!

Andy

PwF wrote: »

Thanks! That tells me most of what I needed to know.
But now I have one last question about downloads.

The pricing & buying system this feature has won't work for me.
I sell for commercial uses, but I can not set one price for any and all uses.
An image for a background can sell for a few hundred dollars but the same image used for a sales ad can go for 10 times more, so my new questions is,
"does this site have any problem if I stated in my galleries that all images are available for stock downloads, and can be ordered from my web site."
Then I would price and sell the images from there.
Does anyone work this way that you know of?

Also, I saw one person that had an old Tintype image that they promoted and prices in their image caption. Is that ok to do on this site?

Thanks again!!!

Yes and yes are the answers to your questions.

OffTopic

Paul right now Smugmug is only set up to do the simplest of RF stock sales...the bare basic one-size-fits-all license and pricing. I hope some day that changes, but I'm sure it would be a huge task to add the backside functionality that RM stock photographers would need and want and I'm not holding my breath. In the meantime...

I was able to successfully integrate LicenseStream Pro into my Smugmug site and it was working very well for me (it automates the entire process including follow up on licensing terms, content tracker, collection of royalty payments, etc.) and I wrote a few blog posts on it back then that still get me phone calls and e-mails, but I wasn't happy with the automated prices they were quoting from their database (sometimes outrageously high) so I stopped using it. You can set it to have every inquiry result in "Contact Photographer" so you can custom quote and still take advantage of all the backoffice functionality; at the time I figured that if I couldn't take advantage of the full automation I didn't want to pay $300 year for it. Currently I am using a custom Quote Form on my site, use the PLUS license embedder to embed the license into the image file, then I set up a private password protected gallery for the client to download the files and handling the billing manually (since frequently payable upon publication anyway). It works, but it's clumsy and a lot of manual work and if I'm on the road a client has to wait for me. I have been thinking about giving LicenseStream another try because I really liked the product aside from the price quote issues and it was so easy to integrate with my SmugMug site. Even if I have to manually quote every inquiry, I think the backoffice functionality alone is worth it if you do any kind of licensing volume. Another thing I liked about it is the integration with Adobe products, so it's very easy to make it a part of your workflow.

I'm sure there are other products that could be easily integrated into a SmugMug site as well, LicenseStream is just the one I am most familiar with because I was a beta tester for them.

Now what would be really sweet is if SmugMug partnered with a company like LicenseStream that offered us a nice discount on the service (hint,hint). LiveBooks is partnered with LicenseStream and they give a 20% discount...$60 discount isn't chump change these days.

PwF

Thanks Andy!

LORI - - - WOW, seems like a whole lot of overkill to do what seems like the simple job of setting a price for a set amount of image uses.
I do things the simplest way possible and all I want is for a buyer, seeing my work, to be able to contact me about an image, tell me what they want to use it for, and we will then work out a price for it. ALL of which can be done through an e-mail. Payment can all be done through PayPal, and then the image attached to the buyer when payment is received. I sure do not need any over-priced add-on programs to do that for me. And I don't usually care to deal with people who want everything yesterday, so being away when a request comes in is not a problem. There is usually no problem getting to it when I get back. In fact I will make sure the fact that "NO RUSH" requests may not always be able to be answered.

All I want Smug Mug for is to show and promote the online images, and when they do that for everyone, they do it for me.
The only thing that I see a problem with is that they do not do that promotions to stock buyers.
Their big deal is with studio type photographers who sell prints to every relative a customer has,
and doing those prints through Smug Mug.
Nothing the matter with that, but it limits Smug Mug to just one type of photographer.
I doubt that there are many people who order fine art prints to hang on their wall.
But then again that is another thing missing from SM as I asked about in the first place,,,
Does SM show how many sales their members make? If they kept track of just some of that then
people interested in joining would know what is possible as far as sales goes.
I know several gallery-type sites that do that and they get all kinds of new members because of it.
To me, not to show that fact says that their members don't really make all that many sales,
so I have second thoughts about paying for a membership that will do nothing for me but show my images online.
I can do that on my own site.
Still thinking about if I will join or not. I'll see what the 14-day free trial shows me.

Anyway, thanks again for the info.

OffTopic

My mistake, I thought you were looking to setting up a site that functions in a manner similar to a stock agency where the person enters the desired terms, a quote is automated, negotiation takes place via e-mail if need, when confirmed license is generated and payment/billing is automated. That's what I want.

You have to do your own marketing, for print or stock. SmugMug isn't a stock agency, the are no submission guidelines, there is no quality control, and I'm happy they don't promote my stock alongside someone doing microstock licensing for $5 with no quality control. They do give us the ability to build a great photography portfolio website with almost unlimited customization and unlimited storage and bandwidth for a very reasonable price (LiveBooks for example starts at $400, charges $50 for a logo change and $200 just to change your font! They have a 3GB storage limit and 50GB bandwidth limit). The print sales functionality is awesome especially for event/wedding/portrait photographers, the branding puts it over the top and we can give our customers a 100% money back guarantee for any reason on print sales. And they give us some great tools and functionality for marketing, including integration with social networking sites. Getting better every day on that end. But yes SmugMug is designed entirely with print sales in mind, not stock photographers.

Sales volume for all of SmugMugger's sites is meaningless; many people aren't trying to sell their photos, and SmugMug has no way to know the total sales volume of anyone doing sales, print or stock, on their own. Many photographers here use SmugMug as their portfolio website site and handle sales fulfillment themselves, print and stock. SmugMug doesn't track when I put a file into a private gallery and let a client download the original, and they wouldn't know if that was the result of a sale I made or something I gave away.

But you may find that what SM offers as a portfolio site doesn't have value to you as a stock photographer and that your current website suits you fine.

PwF

I agree that Sm is great for print sales. Probably the best one online.
There just seems to be too many unanswered questions about it.

I just wish I could find out if any stock type buyers ever look at the site to find images, and a rough idea of how many. Or even if there are ever any print sales made to people who just want a print to hang on the wall. But it doesn't look like SM has any idea if anyone ever makes a sale, unless those two print shops share the sales numbers. Which I think SM should get from them and use for members info. I have a hard time understanding why they would not want to use that info for promoting the site. That is the point of this web site isn't it, getting new members?

I may join for a year just to see if I ever hear from anyone.
Even if there were just some prints sales on the side to pay for the membership it would make it worth the cost.
But then there is that "if".

jfriend

PwF wrote: »

I agree that Sm is great for print sales. Probably the best one online.
There just seems to be too many unanswered questions about it.

I just wish I could find out if any stock type buyers ever look at the site to find images, and a rough idea of how many. Or even if there are ever any print sales made to people who just want a print to hang on the wall. But it doesn't look like SM has any idea if anyone ever makes a sale, unless those two print shops share the sales numbers. Which I think SM should get from them and use for members info. I have a hard time understanding why they would not want to use that info for promoting the site. That is the point of this web site isn't it, getting new members?

I may join for a year just to see if I ever hear from anyone.
Even if there were just some prints sales on the side to pay for the membership it would make it worth the cost.
But then there is that "if".

I rather doubt stock buyers come to "Smugmug" look for stock because Smugmug as a whole is mostly NOT stock photos so they'd be looking for a needle in a haystack. I know Smugmug intimately and I wouldn't even look for stock photos on Smugmug - I'd go to a site dedicated to stock photography where everything there is stock.

If you had your stock photos here on Smugmug, you would have to do all your own promotion to drive potential customers to your site. Smugmug will provide the infrastructure for displaying, organizing, searching and selling your photos, but they don't have a stock photo store that people come walking into looking to buy something. That just isn't what they are.

PwF

jfriend wrote: »

If you had your stock photos here on Smugmug, you would have to do all your own promotion to drive potential customers to your site. Smugmug will provide the infrastructure for displaying, organizing, searching and selling your photos, but they don't have a stock photo store that people come walking into looking to buy something. That just isn't what they are.

Thanks. That pretty much made up my mind to go to another site that I know of that has both print sales and stock sales.
I wonder how many other possible members Sm looses this way?
It is a highly traveled site, so I would think that stock buyers would check it out. In fact I know they will check out any site that possibly has images they are looking for. I know they visit, but it's just that SM does not know about it.

END of this thread for me - - - - - -

WinsomeWorks

PwF wrote: »

Thanks. That pretty much made up my mind to go to another site that I know of that has both print sales and stock sales.
I wonder how many other possible members Sm looses this way?
It is a highly traveled site, so I would think that stock buyers would check it out. In fact I know they will check out any site that possibly has images they are looking for. I know they visit, but it's just that SM does not know about it.

END of this thread for me - - - - - -

It's not that SmugMug doesn't know about it, nor is it that you can't sell stock from here, but it's just not the thrust of SmugMug. There are so many other things we're wanting Smug to do for us. Stock means having an infrastructure (either your own or the host company's) to deal with the various licenses involved & knowing what kinds of photos are even legally able to be sold with those licenses. In other words, the host company and the photographer are going to get in a whole lot of hot water if they're selling RF stock and, for instance, they're inadvertently selling an image with a brand name in it, or a house number, etc..... which cannot typically be sold as RF. Advertising agencies need RF. On the other hand, it would be a bit less complicated to sell Editorial Stock here... still takes an infrastructure though.

Here's the thing though-- I sell stock as well, but I have almost all my stock photos here as well. I really need both. I don't need those stock companies to have all these other amazing bells & whistles that SmugMug has. (even though sometimes I'd love to have them). But I need SmugMug's bells & whistles & would not be without their ability to be customized and to display almost any image I want to... because stock companies won't do that for me. It costs me nothing to submit my images to stock companies (except time), but I have to realize they're going to reject some of my images, and I can't customize much at all, and their displays will all have their big prominent watermarks and can't be tweaked at all the way we can tweak here to our heart's content.

So why not do both? The thing is, once you've done the required work on an image to prepare it for stock sales (color correction, keywording & other metadata, descriptions, etc.), that image is way beyond the necessary prep. to display it here. But you can put it here on SmugMug as well & do all kinds of other fun stuff with it, as long as you're not exclusive with a stock company somewhere else. (I won't ever go exclusive for that reason). And then you can also display & sell all kinds of other images here that you'll never get accepted onto a stock site as well. To me, it's a win-win for any of my images that I've worked up for stock. They get seen by a wide audience and I get the satisfaction of knowing they've been enjoyed & sometimes even sold, & I can sometimes know by whom & where. With the stock sites I'm on, I rarely get to know where they've ended up, and I only have hundreds of stock images so far, while having thousands of SmugMug images.

Of course it's your choice, but just realize the limitations of a stock site & realize you can have your cake & eat it too by putting your images on a site like SmugMug. Oh, and with print sales, yes.... I can sell some of my stock images for personal prints on those stock sites I mentioned, but the prints sizes & etc. are very very limited, and there are no products, etc. There are maybe 4-6 sizes, and no small prints. The printing capabilities don't even come close to all the amazing stuff we can sell (or buy for ourselves) here. If you need some links, send me a PM and I'll share some so you can see what I mean. Remember too that it can take 2 weeks to get images accepted for stock sales. If you want to order prints or someone else does, you can't just pop it into a gallery like we do here; you have to wait for their process, and they won't have 4x6 prints or anything like that.