Bleh. Sending back the Nikon 85 f/1.8

PupatorPupator Registered Users Posts: 2,322 Major grins
edited March 9, 2011 in Cameras
My 85mm f/1.8 arrived yesterday. Today my LesnAlign kit arrived so I could set the micro-focus on all my lenses. It worked perfectly with the 35mm f/1.8, the 55-200 VR, and even the Tokina 12-24.

The 85 f/1.8 was a terrible experience. It was hard to identify any potential focus problems because the lens was so soft. Soft at 1.8, soft at 2, soft all the way until 5.6. Very disappointing. Back to Adorama it goes. I usually don't buy into the "bad copy" stories, but I don't know what else to think at this point. :scratch

Should I try the 50mm? Another copy of the 85?

Comments

  • Cygnus StudiosCygnus Studios Registered Users Posts: 2,294 Major grins
    edited March 3, 2011
    Example shots?? The 85mm is a very nice lens and everyone should one one. That doesn't mean that every example is perfect, every manufacturer makes a dud.
    Steve

    Website
  • HarrybHarryb Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 22,708 Major grins
    edited March 3, 2011
    I use the 85 1.4 and love it but haven't used the 1.8. All the reviews of the 1.8 have been extremely good and the users of the lens that I've met have been pleased with it. I would try another copy.
    Harry
    http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
    How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
  • catspawcatspaw Registered Users Posts: 1,292 Major grins
    edited March 3, 2011
    yeah, bad copy without a doubt. The 85 1.8 I use is pretty danged sharp in ALL conditions
    //Leah
  • PupatorPupator Registered Users Posts: 2,322 Major grins
    edited March 3, 2011
    This is VERY encouraging. I'll take it out of the box and give it a second try. If no success I'll order another copy. I really want this lens because the focal length is just right for outdoor portraits. I'll post a sample shot from my first round in just a second.
  • PupatorPupator Registered Users Posts: 2,322 Major grins
    edited March 3, 2011
    Here it is in all its disgusting "glory." 1/25 sec (tripod mounted, fired with remote + 2 second timer), f/1.8, ISO 400
    _PDM0377.jpg
  • DsrtVWDsrtVW Registered Users Posts: 1,991 Major grins
    edited March 3, 2011
    I have a 85mm f 1.8 and use it on my D7000 and have no issues. You must have had bad luck of the draw. I bought mine used in New condition. Love it. Send it back for a replacement.

    Here is one at f1.8 and 1/1600 shot through glass door ISO 400
    Curves adjusted no additional sharpening. I need to micro adjust it seems back focusing slightly
    1205098986_fFKah-L.jpg

    100% crop
    1205103585_f2miY-L.jpg
    Chris K. NANPA Member
    http://kadvantage.smugmug.com/
  • Cygnus StudiosCygnus Studios Registered Users Posts: 2,294 Major grins
    edited March 3, 2011
    Pupator wrote: »
    Here it is in all its disgusting "glory." 1/25 sec (tripod mounted, fired with remote + 2 second timer), f/1.8, ISO 400

    Have you tried this same shot at higher shutter speeds? 1/250 or 1/400 keeping the F stop and ISO the same?
    Steve

    Website
  • PupatorPupator Registered Users Posts: 2,322 Major grins
    edited March 3, 2011
    Maybe these are dumb questions, but:

    If I keep the f/stop and ISO the same, yet increase the shutter speed 10x, isn't it going to be a very, very dark image? Why would shutter speed matter on a tripod and fired with a timer/remote?
  • PupatorPupator Registered Users Posts: 2,322 Major grins
    edited March 3, 2011
    Here's a picture I took with the 85mm yesterday, before I was convinced that it sucked. I just now got around to processing it.
    1205127502_tuVLh-L.jpg
  • ziggy53ziggy53 Super Moderators Posts: 24,078 moderator
    edited March 3, 2011
    Oddly, I checked the EXIF on both images and they both show "exactly" the same subject distance. Is the lens autofocusing correctly?
    ziggy53
    Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
  • Matthew SavilleMatthew Saville Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 3,352 Major grins
    edited March 3, 2011
    I've shot with multiple copies of the 85 f/1.8, on both crop and full-frame, and have had some VERY sharp experiences with most copies. It's a phenomenal lens if you don't get a lemon.

    Having said that, if you've got a "LensAlign" gadget then clearly you've got money to burn, so I'd recommend stepping it up to the 85 1.4 AFD or, if you're not opposed to third parties, the new Sigma 85 1.4 EX HSM is honestly the best 85mm ever made, when balancing performance and value. No joke, and yes I've tested almost every 85 around, from both Canon and Nikon...

    =Matt=
    “My first thought is always of light.” – Galen Rowell
    My SmugMug Portfolio • My Astro-Landscape Photo Blog • Dgrin Weddings Forum
  • PupatorPupator Registered Users Posts: 2,322 Major grins
    edited March 3, 2011
    ziggy53 wrote: »
    Oddly, I checked the EXIF on both images and they both show "exactly" the same subject distance. Is the lens autofocusing correctly?

    Hard to tell. My hunch is, no. If you go to my galleries and check Kids-->2011 and look at the three most recent pictures you'll see a couple of other examples. They all look (just slightly) soft/OOF to me.
  • PupatorPupator Registered Users Posts: 2,322 Major grins
    edited March 3, 2011
    Matthew Saville wrote: »

    Having said that, if you've got a "LensAlign" gadget then clearly you've got money to burn, so I'd recommend stepping it up to the 85 1.4 AFD or, if you're not opposed to third parties, the new Sigma 85 1.4 EX HSM is honestly the best 85mm ever made, when balancing performance and value. No joke, and yes I've tested almost every 85 around, from both Canon and Nikon...

    =Matt=

    Ha ha ha. rolleyes1.gif A pastor with money to burn. eek7.gif

    The Lensalign was purchased for a very specific project. More on that later.

    I don't have a problem with 3rd party lenses at all, but both of those are out of my price range. The Sigma 85 is $917 on Amazon. The Nikon is $1174 for the f/1.4D and $2100 for the 1.4G. The 85mm f/1.8 that I have was about $300. I think my best bet is to figure out if this lens is fine (and the problem is user error) or to try another 85 f/1.8.

    Now the 50mm f/1.4 is certainly within my price range. (A used 85mm f/1.4D seems to be about $850. Still too high.)
  • Matthew SavilleMatthew Saville Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 3,352 Major grins
    edited March 4, 2011
    Pupator wrote: »
    Ha ha ha. rolleyes1.gif A pastor with money to burn. eek7.gif

    The Lensalign was purchased for a very specific project. More on that later.

    I don't have a problem with 3rd party lenses at all, but both of those are out of my price range. The Sigma 85 is $917 on Amazon. The Nikon is $1174 for the f/1.4D and $2100 for the 1.4G. The 85mm f/1.8 that I have was about $300. I think my best bet is to figure out if this lens is fine (and the problem is user error) or to try another 85 f/1.8.

    Now the 50mm f/1.4 is certainly within my price range. (A used 85mm f/1.4D seems to be about $850. Still too high.)
    Fair enough! :-) I guess I just wrongfully assumed that anyone buying a LensAlign tool is one of those money-out-their-ears gadget geeks. (I've always just used a tripod and a tree to calibrate my lenses. ;-)

    If you post a tripodded, f/2.0 or f/2.8 test shot of a real-world subject, we could tell you pretty quick whether or not the lens is adequately sharp. From the LensAlign image alone, if that's a 100% crop, I would indeed say that you've got a soft copy of the lens. Clearly you know what you're doing, with the tripod and timer delay etc, so I'm inclined to NOT blame user error. Test the lens one final time, use live view to zoom way in and test it manually, and then send it back if it's not satisfactory. You definitely don't need any of those f/1.4's to achieve decent sharpness at 1.8, nor incredible sharpness at 2.8...

    =Matt=
    “My first thought is always of light.” – Galen Rowell
    My SmugMug Portfolio • My Astro-Landscape Photo Blog • Dgrin Weddings Forum
  • PupatorPupator Registered Users Posts: 2,322 Major grins
    edited March 4, 2011
    Seymore wrote: »
    ps: If you're now shooting Nikon, might want to update the gear in your profile.

    Oops! Corrected, thanks. I'll take several test shots (real world) today and see what I get.
  • PupatorPupator Registered Users Posts: 2,322 Major grins
    edited March 4, 2011
    Today was my wife's birthday. And with her parents in town and us going to Old Salem for dinner I had a chance to use the lens in some real-life scenarios. Out of all the pictures I took (admittedly, I switched to the 35mm after a couple dozen) I only got two keepers. They were taken within seconds of one another before we even left the house. I'll give it a try again tomorrow.

    1205860010_QXW67-L.jpg
    1205860763_pqZet-L.jpg
  • angevin1angevin1 Registered Users Posts: 3,403 Major grins
    edited March 4, 2011
    Pupator wrote: »
    Maybe these are dumb questions, but:

    If I keep the f/stop and ISO the same, yet increase the shutter speed 10x, isn't it going to be a very, very dark image? Why would shutter speed matter on a tripod and fired with a timer/remote?

    I dunno Paul, 1/25th is darned slow. If I wanted to "test" a lens, it'd be fer sure lots faster than 1/25th! Thats as technical as I can get. 1/25th is simply slow allowing for any number of things, such as mirror slap to reverberate and give the image ever so slightly a push~It don't take much movement at that slow of a speed to really skew things~
    tom wise
  • ziggy53ziggy53 Super Moderators Posts: 24,078 moderator
    edited March 5, 2011
    Those last 2 images are much sharper, showing that the lens "might" have the right stuff. The distance to subject was greater than your first tests and you used flash with an exposure duration of 1/250th, lending some credence to the camera shake theory for the previous tests.

    I suggest an outdoor brick wall during daylight per my usual testing regimen and then, if the lens passes that test, revisit the Lensalign with flash illumination.
    ziggy53
    Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
  • newbnewb Registered Users Posts: 186 Major grins
    edited March 5, 2011
    ziggy53 wrote: »
    Oddly, I checked the EXIF on both images and they both show "exactly" the same subject distance. Is the lens autofocusing correctly?
    Pupator wrote: »
    Hard to tell. My hunch is, no.

    First off, Im not tryin to be a smart ass so please dont take this as such lol.

    Did you remember to flip the AF switch on the front of camera to the "AF" position?
    D7000/D5000 | Nikkor Glass | SB600's | RF602's | CS5/LR3
  • Matthew SavilleMatthew Saville Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 3,352 Major grins
    edited March 5, 2011
    angevin1 wrote: »
    I dunno Paul, 1/25th is darned slow. If I wanted to "test" a lens, it'd be fer sure lots faster than 1/25th! Thats as technical as I can get. 1/25th is simply slow allowing for any number of things, such as mirror slap to reverberate and give the image ever so slightly a push~It don't take much movement at that slow of a speed to really skew things~
    Actually, with a tripod and a cable release, many nature photographers make images WAY sharper at 1/25 sec than others might EVER make shooting hand-held at 1/1000 sec. Trust me, shake is not necessarily an issue.

    It is far better to test a lens' fine detail at a lower ISO for paramount image quality, even if that cuts the shutter speed way down. Of course you CAN fix the problem by shooting in the dark with flash, but I've found that a tripod and cable release work just fine.

    =Matt=
    “My first thought is always of light.” – Galen Rowell
    My SmugMug Portfolio • My Astro-Landscape Photo Blog • Dgrin Weddings Forum
  • PupatorPupator Registered Users Posts: 2,322 Major grins
    edited March 5, 2011
    Tripod, cable release, timer, mirror lock up - and I took about 20 of the "first" test shot, not 1. So trust me, camera shake was not the issue on those. And yes, the camera is in AF mode.

    Today the lens will get more use outdoors.
  • angevin1angevin1 Registered Users Posts: 3,403 Major grins
    edited March 5, 2011
    Seymore wrote: »
    Hey Tom... I'm seeing 1/250th sec on his last 2 shots. (OPanda) How did you get 1/25th?

    UPDATE: OH, I see you're talking about the first test shot, right?


    Yes, right, just the first. EXIF same as yours !~
    tom wise
  • HelenOsterHelenOster Registered Users Posts: 173 Major grins
    edited March 5, 2011
    Pupator wrote: »
    My 85mm f/1.8 arrived yesterday. ....It was hard to identify any potential focus problems because the lens was so soft. ....Back to Adorama it goes. ...

    Sorry to read of your problems; do email me if you need any help with this.
    Helen Oster
    Adorama Camera Customer Service Ambassador
    http://twitter.com/HelenOster
    Helen@adorama.com
    www.adorama.com
  • PupatorPupator Registered Users Posts: 2,322 Major grins
    edited March 5, 2011
    HelenOster wrote: »
    Sorry to read of your problems; do email me if you need any help with this.


    Thanks Helen. I've printed out the return form and have it ready to go, but I really want to make sure that the lens is the problem before I send it back. I really like the focal length and don't want to pass on this lens unless I have to. I'll make a decision by Monday and let you know.
  • angevin1angevin1 Registered Users Posts: 3,403 Major grins
    edited March 5, 2011
    Harryb wrote: »
    I use the 85 1.4 and love it but haven't used the 1.8. All the reviews of the 1.8 have been extremely good and the users of the lens that I've met have been pleased with it. I would try another copy.

    This is in keeping with everything I've ever heard about this lens. Send it back. You're out a bit of shipping ...but that is why you bought from a reputable source!
    tom wise
  • PupatorPupator Registered Users Posts: 2,322 Major grins
    edited March 9, 2011
    Today I took my son (and the 85 f/1.8) to the Children's Museum to test the lens in a real-world setting. After looking at the results, I'm more confused than ever and ready to send the lens back tomorrow. I took 70 pictures. 15 have a visible focus point. That is, in only 15/70 images is at least part of him in focus. I'm really not that bad of a photographer. I don't have this much trouble with my 35mm f/1.8. For the sake of simplicity, I used center point focus on every shot and aimed right for his eyes or nose. That's what should be in focus.

    The frustrating part is that it's not consistent. Some images show a front-focusing problem. Others seems to suggest that it's back-focusing. Here's a gallery where I dumped some unedited pictures from today.

    http://www.paulsclicks.com/Admin/working/2265747_dDMhU#1211472567_cAwca

    I read on NikonCafe about a user who was having a similar problem, but noticed that his shots taken with live view were in focus while his viewfinder shots were not. Using a tripod and a fixed subject he tested his theory and found that the camera was only focusing properly when live view was activated. I wondered if that might be my problem, so I tested many of the shots today with live view - yet I couldn't see a difference.

    I'm installing the Nikon software now so that I can see where the focus points were supposed to be for each image.
  • PupatorPupator Registered Users Posts: 2,322 Major grins
    edited March 9, 2011
    This image is a prime example of what I'm disappointed in.

    According to the Nikon viewer: 1/125, f/2.8, ISO 800, and the focus point is right on his eye. I would expect this to be tack sharp. (Click on the picture to see a larger version.)

    1211477192_qCwrB-L.jpg
  • PupatorPupator Registered Users Posts: 2,322 Major grins
    edited March 9, 2011
    Yep. It's going back. Just looked at some of the recent images I've taken with the 35mm in the Nikon software. Focus is accurate, pictures are very sharp, and the camera acts consistently. This is a bum version of the lens. Off to Adorama. I hope they have another and can just swap it.
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