setup high shuter speed with poket wizard?

sharagim1sharagim1 Registered Users Posts: 69 Big grins
edited March 7, 2011 in Cameras
i hope sombody able to help me, i"m so frustrated for trying to use high shuter speed with my canon 7d in daytime,
some time you need to use very high shuter speed on day for fill shadow and .... for this reson i bought 2 felex tt5 and one tt1, but i can"t use it for high shuter speed like 1000, 4000, even 8000,
any help would be great.
canon EOS 7D /canon 5d mark ll/ EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM/EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM/ canon lens 85mm 1.8

Comments

  • Matthew SavilleMatthew Saville Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 3,352 Major grins
    edited March 4, 2011
    Which flashes are you using, what modes are they set to, and what modes are the PW's set to? Achieving high sped syncing wirelessly is a VERY delicate task, but the new PW TTL system should be able to do it. It's probably a compatibility issue, a custom setting that got bumped, a loose connection, a low battery, something easy like that. (Especially if it's the finnicky 580 mk2)

    =Matt=
    “My first thought is always of light.” – Galen Rowell
    My SmugMug Portfolio • My Astro-Landscape Photo Blog • Dgrin Weddings Forum
  • sharagim1sharagim1 Registered Users Posts: 69 Big grins
    edited March 4, 2011
    Matthew Saville wrote: »
    Which flashes are you using, what modes are they set to, and what modes are the PW's set to? Achieving high sped syncing wirelessly is a VERY delicate task, but the new PW TTL system should be able to do it. It's probably a compatibility issue, a custom setting that got bumped, a loose connection, a low battery, something easy like that. (Especially if it's the finnicky 580 mk2)

    =Matt=

    thanks Matthew for response,
    i use 2 580exll with 2 flex tt5 and one flex tt1 and one ac3 for light flash control which is installed top on the ac3.
    i think i have to updtae to 5.2 fimware, i will do it and lets see whay will be happen,
    again thanks Matthew
    canon EOS 7D /canon 5d mark ll/ EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM/EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM/ canon lens 85mm 1.8
  • Dan7312Dan7312 Registered Users Posts: 1,330 Major grins
    edited March 4, 2011
    I use the mini/flex's with the 580's and a 7D and get HSS up to 1/8000 of a second.

    What is the problem you are running into? Are you using eTTL or manual? Are the images just black or partially cut off. Have you made sure you have the latest firmware (5.2) in the mini/flex. Use the PocketWizard utility to check and update if need be.

    Here are some settings that should work. Put the flashes in eTTL mode and off (not power off, just not master or slave). It's easy to think that your flash should be in slave mode when you use the mini/flex but that is not the case.

    Set the factory defaults in the mini/flex's by holding down the test button for at least 30 seconds.

    Make sure all the mini/flex's are set to group A and then turn them onto channel C1. Do this *before* turning on the flashes or camera. After all the mini/flex's are turned on then turn on the camera and the flashes.

    Do a test inside just to make sure that the sun isn't making it hard to tell if things are working.

    Pick a camera mode like T and set the shutter speed to 1\8000th. Take a picture but the first shot is just to sync up the mini/flex's with the camera and flashes. The take a picture, the entire image should be exposed, no bands at top or bottom.

    Keep in mind that depend on the difference between the shade on the subject and the brighness of the background you may not have enough flash power to light the subject.

    Let us know how it goes.

    And I just saw that you have the AC-3. The flashes must be in eTTL mode if you are using an AC-3, even if you choose the M setting on the AC-3.


    sharagim1 wrote: »
    i hope sombody able to help me, i"m so frustrated for trying to use high shuter speed with my canon 7d in daytime,
    some time you need to use very high shuter speed on day for fill shadow and .... for this reson i bought 2 felex tt5 and one tt1, but i can"t use it for high shuter speed like 1000, 4000, even 8000,
    any help would be great.
    Dan

    http://www.danalphotos.com

    http://www.pluralsight.com

    http://twitter.com/d114
  • JimKarczewskiJimKarczewski Registered Users Posts: 969 Major grins
    edited March 5, 2011
    Sorry, but if you are trying to overpower sun, HSS mode isn't the way to do it. HSS mode fires multiple bursts at lower power levels than having the flash set to full power on manual. Do your HSS shot, then go to 1/200 and put your flashes on manual both at full power and I'm sure you will see a difference in the amount of light that is actually making it to the subject in manual vs HSS mode.
    Jim Karczewski - http://www.jimkarczewski.com
  • Matthew SavilleMatthew Saville Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 3,352 Major grins
    edited March 5, 2011
    JimKarczewski wrote: »
    Sorry, but if you are trying to overpower sun, HSS mode isn't the way to do it. HSS mode fires multiple bursts at lower power levels than having the flash set to full power on manual. Do your HSS shot, then go to 1/200 and put your flashes on manual both at full power and I'm sure you will see a difference in the amount of light that is actually making it to the subject in manual vs HSS mode.
    That's the other thing, by the way. Your whole system might be working perfectly well, but if you're at 1/8000 sec the flash power of a mere 580 EX2 might not be able to "expose" more than a few feet away. You will NOT be able to use a flash that small at a great distance. I just did a quick test with my Nikon setup in high speed sync, with an on-camera flash, and by 1/1000 sec I was at ISO 200, f/2.8, and 1/2 power in order to illuminate a subject more than 10 feet away. I dunno what aperture and ISO you're trying to shoot at, and what your flash distance is, but at the higher shutter speeds you really do start to cut it close...


    So even if you CAN use high speed sync, it's still best to keep your shutter speed as low as possible because you WILL lose more and more flash power with every stop higher than the normal sync speed. I would NEVER go more than 1-2 stops higher than the sync speed, I'd rather stop down a little bit, or use a polarizer or ND filter. It's just so much more economical for your flash!


    For what it's worth, over the years I have shot hundreds of portrait sessions and events in bright sunlight , and I've never needed to go any higher than 1/500 sec while using flash. I simply look for other ways to modify light. I try and notice where light is softer, where it might bounce off, so that I can shoot without flash, or I use a polarizer or my aperture to cut down the light while staying around 1/250 sec...


    =Matt=
    “My first thought is always of light.” – Galen Rowell
    My SmugMug Portfolio • My Astro-Landscape Photo Blog • Dgrin Weddings Forum
  • Dan7312Dan7312 Registered Users Posts: 1,330 Major grins
    edited March 5, 2011
    Mini/Flex squeezes a bit more light out of the Canon flash in HSS mode than the Canon optical wireless does because it is able to maintain a tighter timing, but it still is not as much light as you get when you don't use HSS.

    However mini/flex also has Hypersync works at shutter speeds up above sync speed up to about 1/650th without using HSS so it is full power out. However it has to be tailiored to your camera. The PocketWizard utility lets you set the delay between when the camera shutter starts and when the flash actually occurs. The mini/flex instruction show how you go about figuring out what the delay setting is.

    In any case make sure HSS is actually working. BTW the PocketWizard has a video of Mark Wallace using HSS as fill for a model in the shade of a tree with a bright background. It was done with direct flash, no modifiers though. http://www.youtube.com/v/l-BD_xD43oA&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&version=3%22


    Matthew Saville wrote: »
    That's the other thing, by the way. Your whole system might be working perfectly well, but if you're at 1/8000 sec the flash power of a mere 580 EX2 might not be able to "expose" more than a few feet away. You will NOT be able to use a flash that small at a great distance. I just did a quick test with my Nikon setup in high speed sync, with an on-camera flash, and by 1/1000 sec I was at ISO 200, f/2.8, and 1/2 power in order to illuminate a subject more than 10 feet away. I dunno what aperture and ISO you're trying to shoot at, and what your flash distance is, but at the higher shutter speeds you really do start to cut it close...


    So even if you CAN use high speed sync, it's still best to keep your shutter speed as low as possible because you WILL lose more and more flash power with every stop higher than the normal sync speed. I would NEVER go more than 1-2 stops higher than the sync speed, I'd rather stop down a little bit, or use a polarizer or ND filter. It's just so much more economical for your flash!


    For what it's worth, over the years I have shot hundreds of portrait sessions and events in bright sunlight , and I've never needed to go any higher than 1/500 sec while using flash. I simply look for other ways to modify light. I try and notice where light is softer, where it might bounce off, so that I can shoot without flash, or I use a polarizer or my aperture to cut down the light while staying around 1/250 sec...


    =Matt=
    Dan

    http://www.danalphotos.com

    http://www.pluralsight.com

    http://twitter.com/d114
  • NeilLNeilL Registered Users Posts: 4,201 Major grins
    edited March 5, 2011
    Why would you need HSS for fill flash in shade? You can set the power of the flash to determine exposure up to synch speed. Is that not enough?

    As Matt suggested, what about modding the flash with a shoot through etc?
    "Snow. Ice. Slow!" "Half-winter. Half-moon. Half-asleep!"

    http://www.behance.net/brosepix
  • Dan7312Dan7312 Registered Users Posts: 1,330 Major grins
    edited March 5, 2011
    If you have a bright background and your subject is shaded and you want to use a wide aperature to throw the background out of focus then you will probably need a shutter speed that is higher than the sync speed to keep from blowing out the background.


    NeilL wrote: »
    Why would you need HSS for fill flash in shade? You can set the power of the flash to determine exposure up to synch speed. Is that not enough?

    As Matt suggested, what about modding the flash with a shoot through etc?
    Dan

    http://www.danalphotos.com

    http://www.pluralsight.com

    http://twitter.com/d114
  • NeilLNeilL Registered Users Posts: 4,201 Major grins
    edited March 5, 2011
    Dan7312 wrote: »
    If you have a bright background and your subject is shaded and you want to use a wide aperature to throw the background out of focus then you will probably need a shutter speed that is higher than the sync speed to keep from blowing out the background.

    Meter for the BG and meter the flash on S, make the balance what you want.

    Neil
    "Snow. Ice. Slow!" "Half-winter. Half-moon. Half-asleep!"

    http://www.behance.net/brosepix
  • Dan7312Dan7312 Registered Users Posts: 1,330 Major grins
    edited March 6, 2011
    I guess I'm missing something here. I you set your aperature to f2.8 because you want the background out of focus, then your meter says your shutter should be 1/8000th to properly expose the background, and your subject is in the shade, how do you use a flash without HSS?
    NeilL wrote: »
    Meter for the BG and meter the flash on S, make the balance what you want.

    Neil
    Dan

    http://www.danalphotos.com

    http://www.pluralsight.com

    http://twitter.com/d114
  • NeilLNeilL Registered Users Posts: 4,201 Major grins
    edited March 7, 2011
    Dan7312 wrote: »
    I guess I'm missing something here. I you set your aperature to f2.8 because you want the background out of focus, then your meter says your shutter should be 1/8000th to properly expose the background, and your subject is in the shade, how do you use a flash without HSS?

    Camera meter talks in 50% grey language. I don't think you need have either the BG or the S at 50% grey.

    You can use the zone technique. Meter highlight, meter shadow, meter S. Decide on the zone you want your S to be, and get as close to it as possible by adjusting exposure settings while trying to keep within the DR of your camera. The meter reading on S should include flash.

    Some external light meters will show the ratio of ambient to flash.

    Neil
    "Snow. Ice. Slow!" "Half-winter. Half-moon. Half-asleep!"

    http://www.behance.net/brosepix
  • Dan7312Dan7312 Registered Users Posts: 1,330 Major grins
    edited March 7, 2011
    That's true, but once you get all your measurements done you may find that in order to use f2.8 to throw the background OOF you will need a shutter speed that is beyond the sync speed of the camera. In that case HSS is needed to light a subject that is in the shade.

    Even if the shaded subject ends up within the DR of the camera you may want to add fill flash get the subject "to the right" in the histogram to preserve detail.

    Canon optical wireless supports HSS but often doesn't work in sunny locations. In those cases you need a Mini/Flex or some other radio trigger that supports HSS. Simple radio triggers don't support HSS.

    The OP had a question about getting HSS to work with mini/flex.
    NeilL wrote: »
    Camera meter talks in 50% grey language. I don't think you need have either the BG or the S at 50% grey.

    You can use the zone technique. Meter highlight, meter shadow, meter S. Decide on the zone you want your S to be, and get as close to it as possible by adjusting exposure settings while trying to keep within the DR of your camera. The meter reading on S should include flash.

    Some external light meters will show the ratio of ambient to flash.

    Neil
    Dan

    http://www.danalphotos.com

    http://www.pluralsight.com

    http://twitter.com/d114
  • NeilLNeilL Registered Users Posts: 4,201 Major grins
    edited March 7, 2011
    Dan7312 wrote: »
    That's true, but once you get all your measurements done you may find that in order to use f2.8 to throw the background OOF you will need a shutter speed that is beyond the sync speed of the camera. In that case HSS is needed to light a subject that is in the shade.

    Even if the shaded subject ends up within the DR of the camera you may want to add fill flash get the subject "to the right" in the histogram to preserve detail.

    Canon optical wireless supports HSS but often doesn't work in sunny locations. In those cases you need a Mini/Flex or some other radio trigger that supports HSS. Simple radio triggers don't support HSS.

    The OP had a question about getting HSS to work with mini/flex.

    Yep, all's well.thumb.gif

    It's the shadows and highlights that have to be kept in the camera DR as much as possible.

    Neil
    "Snow. Ice. Slow!" "Half-winter. Half-moon. Half-asleep!"

    http://www.behance.net/brosepix
  • sharagim1sharagim1 Registered Users Posts: 69 Big grins
    edited March 7, 2011
    i just wanted to appreciated, for help me,
    after update to version 5.2 now all the pocket wiazard working fine with hss.
    canon EOS 7D /canon 5d mark ll/ EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM/EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM/ canon lens 85mm 1.8
  • ziggy53ziggy53 Super Moderators Posts: 24,078 moderator
    edited March 7, 2011
    sharagim1 wrote: »
    i just wanted to appreciated, for help me,
    after update to version 5.2 now all the pocket wiazard working fine with hss.

    Great to hear it is working for you. clap.gif
    ziggy53
    Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
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