Brolly questions... well, more like venting.

Kinkajou

So I finally just got my first umbrella (yeah, totally embarrassing that it took me this long... I know) and I was all excited to start using it. I did a few tests shots at home (indoors and out) and things seemed pretty ok... so I set up a shoot with a model and MAN WAS IT A PAIN!!!

I had an STE2 and when I would hit the pilot button, it would work. Then I'd try to actually take a shot and it wouldn't. So I'd try the pilot again, 4 or 5 times in a row. No problem. Line up the shot, no flash. Then when it would ocassionally work, it didn't always let me adjust the power of the flash. Whaaa...? Flash is too strong, it's in manual mode, I want to dial it down and oh! it won't let me. Five minutes later, no problem. Up 2/3rds? Please do. Down to -1? Why, go right ahead. Want to make another adjustment? TOUGH! :huh

I still have no idea why the STE2/OCF combo was so difficult to work with. I tried everything I could: new batteries, changed angles, got closer, offered it some nasty phrases, turned it all off and back on, etc., etc. Ugh. I have been using the STE2 and OCF at work and home without the brolly for over a year now and never have a problem like this.

Issue two - kept blowing over. I had all my gear piled up at the base and the legs as wide as they'd go. Tiny breeze and it was all done. So I guess I need to get sandbags or something? Are there any other options out there that don't require me to carry around an additional 50 pounds? Giant suction cups, perhaps?

It's starting to seem like my 'Quick and easy, I can carry it anywhere all by myself!' solution is just not... I ended up giving up on it and not using anything other than natural light for the second half of the shoot (fortunately it was not a paid gig!!!).

So yeah, how do you guys do it when you're shooting outdoors without an assistant? Any umbrella tips or suggestions? I'm sure with time I'll get more comfortable with it.... I hope...

heatherfeather

The only time I have issues is when I am shooting out of line of sight. I really do the combo you mentioned a LOT. Sometimes when I am shooting too short of lens I step too close and the sensor can't see me, but other than that, it works really well for me.

Sandbags / assistants are very necessary outdoors... though it sure is a pain sometimes.

In the next couple of weeks I'll either be a Poppers or Wizard's owner, so I am excited to do more things OUT of line of sight. What a glorious thing that will be.

divamum

Yeah, I use my brollies/modifiers + STE2 all the time, including with my flash INSIDE the Photek Softliter. It will sometimes misfire outside (it's definitely easier to use indooors), but if I make sure I have line of sight, it'll still work most of the time. At some point I'll go with radio transmitters, but for now those would be a luxury rather than a necessity, so I'll wait until I really need to make that jump.

I admit that I use it in ETTL rather than manual (only one of my flashes has a manual mode - the 420ex is ETTL only), so I can't comment on that aspect of things, but by dialling FEC up and down from the camera it usually responds well.

Do you have pullbacks of your setup so maybe we can see what might have been misbehaving, or interfering with it?

As for the blowing over... that's why I bought a Cheetah Qbox (very like the Lastolite EZBox, but 1/3 the price!) - brollies do tend towards Mary Poppins in a breeze...... I also use some wraparound ankle weights from Walmart ($15 and worth every penny!) - I velcro them around the base of stands as necessary. I also read somewhere that some people take gallon milk jugs and fill them with water onsite and use those; means you don't have to carry the weight.

Btw, you did remember to turn the red transmitter panel on the flash towards you and the camera, right? My flashes are often on thestands backwards/sideways, with the head rotated to compensate (you probably did that, but just checking )

ETA: Were you bouncing or shoot-thru-ing? It's easier with the latter, I suspect, because then the flash is on YOUR side of the brolly.....

Art Scott

First I always use actual brolly boxes....umbrella shaped softboxes and they are shoot thru's of course....It may have started to be bad if an umbrella heard you refer to it as a brolly...not sure but it could have been the start of an equipment rebellion..........


STE2 is infrared correct...was it a bright day and was the umbrella+flash in line of sight.....infra red does not work real good in bright light....I gave it up a long time ago.....also my EBAY flash triggers are tons cheaper than Nikons version of the STE2...for about $30 you can get 1 transmitter and 3 or 4 receivers (16 channel flash triggers)....I also use them in studio....the receivers run on AAA batts and the transmitter has a lithium 6 or 9 volt barrel, mine have been lasting over 2 yrs on the transmitter....I shoot in manual so I use an incident flash meter for getting exposure correct ....

Blowing over simple....2 walmart 99 cent black or what ever color they are now save the planet grocery bags......and a couple of gallon zipper bags.....keep these in your travel gear for use as sand bags to keep lighting gear from taking a tumble.....I use velcro ties to attach this to the light stand....

Qarik

are you sure the the IR window on the flash was pointing to the STE?

Matthew Saville

Bottom line- if you want something to "go bang every time", get a set of radio triggers. These days you can get reliable triggers in sets of three (remotes, that is) for about $60... So you have no excuse not to! (Sell the STE-2 if you must)

=Matt=

mpriest13

Matthew Saville wrote: »

Bottom line- if you want something to "go bang every time", get a set of radio triggers. These days you can get reliable triggers in sets of three (remotes, that is) for about $60... So you have no excuse not to! (Sell the STE-2 if you must)

=Matt=

What triggers do you use, Matt?

Art Scott

Here is an EBAY link to ones that look just like mine towards the bottom of the page there is a set of 4 recievers + 1 transmitter for $45 / free shipping....as I stated above mine have been running for 2+ yrs and no problems...it is radio signals and it will shoot thru umbrellas ...softboxes and a lot of times around walls into another room....have no idea why i dicided I had to try this but it worked transmitter was in studio with doors closed I was in another room about 50' down a hall door closed and I had a RF shutter release to fire the camera which would fore the flash...it all worked...so I am very pleased with my inexpensive 16 channel EBAY radio flash triggers and I am even more happy that the great Aussie Photog GUS {who no longer hangs on this site) turned me on to these great little inexpensive tools......

link again.................. http://tinyurl.com/4ry4yzl

Matthew Saville

mpriest13 wrote: »

What triggers do you use, Matt?

Art's link looks like a good bang-for-buck setup, if he vouches that it's worked for over two years!

They look similar to the Yongnuo brand that seems to be pretty popular among professionals and hobbyists alike.

The brand that I've used for about a year with much success, I got from Scott Robert Lim. His kit is a bit more pricey, ($200) ...but it comes with a master guide to flash photography that is a VERY good resource for anyone who is still learning and looking for inspiration.

http://scottrobertla.com/scott-robert-studio/srs-radio-trigger-system/

Scott puts a 1 year warranty on them, something you might not be able to get on Ebay buying from China. But I know they're available elsewhere, and maybe someone else knows what kind of triggers they are. I can never remember all the different names, the dang things are never lableled!


I'm also currently testing a brand new system for another friend who actually lives in China currently; and so far I'm very happy with their performance. They're much more versatile than the average Ebay trigger, you can use them for camera control as well, both wired and wireless. Not sure what they'll cost, but if they pass my torture tests I'll be able to reveal the brand and price. :-)


=Matt=

Ed911

If you want to try something a little more expensive and versatile, you might want to try the Radio Popper JrX triggers along with their RPcube. A studio kit consisting of one transceiver and receiver runs around $150 and the RPcube is under $30.

You can control the power of your Canon OC flash right from the camera via the use of one of three knobs on the transmitter...and do so for three groups of lights. (You will obviously need three receivers and three RPcubes to control three groups of lights.)

If you are using them on Alien Bees or White Lightnings you can control the power output from your camera as well. (doesn't work with other brands.) That's how I use mine.

If you are metering your subject...like with an L 358 light meter, you can stand where you are metering, fire your studio flash, using the transmitter test button, and adjust your light output without having to run over to your light. I find that to be pretty handy. Here's the link.

http://shop.radiopopper.com/

Just remember to get the JrX studio kit...

Kinkajou

Thanks for all of the ideas, guys. Looks like I have some more research to do!

As far as my setup, this was happening in an empty parking lot with as well as in a shaded area with a few trees, but the light stand was always within direct line of sight with no obstructions at all between me and the sensor. The thing that is really confusing though is that when I hit the pilot button to test it, it worked every time so I knew they were communicating. When I tried to actually take the shot from the same position, however, it frequently wouldn't fire.

I do like the ankle weight and the 'fill up with materials on site' ideas, so I will also look into that... and dragging around a friend/boyfriend/innocent bystander/assistant.

Thanks so much!

BlueSkyPhotos

I have been using YONGNUO RF-602 transmitters and receivers for about two years now. You can buy them on e-bay directly from manufacturer. Number of people reselling them on the US market for double the price. I saw them advertised in Professional Photographer and other magazines. They are very reliable. The specs say they have a reach of over a 1000 feet. I went 350 feet or so couple of times and had no problems with them.

mpriest13

How important does everything think it is to be able to use ETTL with radio transmitters?

Art Scott

mpriest13 wrote: »

How important does everything think it is to be able to use ETTL with radio transmitters?

Personally I don't.........but I started out using a handheld light meter cause my first camera did not have one.....and I kept on using them or I bracket..........I venture into iTTL every now and again.....but I do not find it liberating.....to me it is a headache and shooting with my meters is second nature.......but I am a dinosaur......:D:D

sara505

I gave up on using my STE2 outdoors almost immediately. It was too inconsistent, sometimes it worked, sometimes not.

Recently I picked Calumet's transmitter and receiver - radio triggered - and it rocks outdoors.

It's all-manual, but it took me two minutes to figure out how to set it up - very simple, you try a setting and if it's too much, lower it, etc. Once you get it set, that's pretty much the way it stays.

It's really fun, controlling light outdoors :-)

Icebear

divamum wrote: »

I also use some wraparound ankle weights from Walmart ($15 and worth every penny!) - I velcro them around the base of stands as necessary. I also read somewhere that some people take gallon milk jugs and fill them with water onsite and use those; means you don't have to carry the weight.

The wrap around weights work adequately and look good too. The milk jugs . . . surely you jest. If someone is paying me good money for professional photography, darned if I want to look like Joe-shit the Rag Man. Not worth the hit to my professional image. YMMV.

Dan7312

Syl Arena uses a long flash cable that he sells though his ofcgear.com site rather than an STE2. There is a bunch of info there on how to get a lot of mileage out of it.

The STE2 doesn't output much light and you can't adjust it's direction. Putting a regular Canon flash configured to only send the control signal on the camera will give you a better chance of working outdoors.

I suppose you could use an STE2 on one of Arena's long cables, but I don't know if that's been done before.

Kinkajou wrote: »

So I finally just got my first umbrella (yeah, totally embarrassing that it took me this long... I know) and I was all excited to start using it. I did a few tests shots at home (indoors and out) and things seemed pretty ok... so I set up a shoot with a model and MAN WAS IT A PAIN!!!

I had an STE2 and when I would hit the pilot button, it would work. Then I'd try to actually take a shot and it wouldn't. So I'd try the pilot again, 4 or 5 times in a row. No problem. Line up the shot, no flash. Then when it would ocassionally work, it didn't always let me adjust the power of the flash. Whaaa...? Flash is too strong, it's in manual mode, I want to dial it down and oh! it won't let me. Five minutes later, no problem. Up 2/3rds? Please do. Down to -1? Why, go right ahead. Want to make another adjustment? TOUGH!

I still have no idea why the STE2/OCF combo was so difficult to work with. I tried everything I could: new batteries, changed angles, got closer, offered it some nasty phrases, turned it all off and back on, etc., etc. Ugh. I have been using the STE2 and OCF at work and home without the brolly for over a year now and never have a problem like this.

Issue two - kept blowing over. I had all my gear piled up at the base and the legs as wide as they'd go. Tiny breeze and it was all done. So I guess I need to get sandbags or something? Are there any other options out there that don't require me to carry around an additional 50 pounds? Giant suction cups, perhaps?

It's starting to seem like my 'Quick and easy, I can carry it anywhere all by myself!' solution is just not... I ended up giving up on it and not using anything other than natural light for the second half of the shoot (fortunately it was not a paid gig!!!).

So yeah, how do you guys do it when you're shooting outdoors without an assistant? Any umbrella tips or suggestions? I'm sure with time I'll get more comfortable with it.... I hope...

Dan7312

If you want to use eTTL it's important, if you don't use eTTL it's not.

The PW Mini/Flex supports eTTL, but with its AC3 control it also lets you set the light levels in three groups from your camera. Even if you are only using manual that is useful. I think the AC3 controller is a must for the Mini/Flex, but that may just be me. Besides the price the also have a learning curve too.

mpriest13 wrote: »

How important does everything think it is to be able to use ETTL with radio transmitters?

angevin1

Kinkajou wrote: »

I do like the ankle weight and the 'fill up with materials on site' ideas, so I will also look into that... and dragging around a friend/boyfriend/innocent bystander/assistant.

Thanks so much!

Batteries were good, right? And you changed them anyway right?

You'll get the trigger thing figured out here obviously. But Unless you have an assistant, using an umbrella (Think Sail boat sail) will most always cause issues outside. The wind will be non existent until YOU show up with a Sail to use a light modifier. Which is another good reason to give other avenues of light modification outside a try. Like using an On-Cam light with a scoop or some such to give just a hint of added light, or using a Sheet on the ground, or even using a reflective building to light your path.

You also never mentioned or I didn't see: How far were you from light-stand, and subj.?

Cheers,

Kinkajou

angevin1 wrote: »

Batteries were good, right? And you changed them anyway right?

You'll get the trigger thing figured out here obviously. But Unless you have an assistant, using an umbrella (Think Sail boat sail) will most always cause issues outside. The wind will be non existent until YOU show up with a Sail to use a light modifier. Which is another good reason to give other avenues of light modification outside a try. Like using an On-Cam light with a scoop or some such to give just a hint of added light, or using a Sheet on the ground, or even using a reflective building to light your path.

You also never mentioned or I didn't see: How far were you from light-stand, and subj.?

Cheers,

Yeah, batteries were good but I swapped them out anyway. The light stand was always about 4-7 feet from the subject and I was probably at different times within inches (testing and getting frustrated) from the flash or up to 15 feet away. No matter where I was, the pilot button worked 95% of the time and the shutter button triggered the flash about 40% of the time.... even when I stuck the camera/STE2 right up next to the flash sensor.

So... I've been looking around a bit at some other options... we'll see what I end up with next time I have some cash to throw around

angevin1

Kinkajou wrote: »

Yeah, batteries were good but I swapped them out anyway. The light stand was always about 4-7 feet from the subject and I was probably at different times within inches (testing and getting frustrated) from the flash or up to 15 feet away. No matter where I was, the pilot button worked 95% of the time and the shutter button triggered the flash about 40% of the time.... even when I stuck the camera/STE2 right up next to the flash sensor.

So... I've been looking around a bit at some other options... we'll see what I end up with next time I have some cash to throw around

I read this way more in Canon than I do in Nikon, and I have no idea at all why. I am so sold on the Nikon version called commander mode, that I thought it was a fluke first time I read this with a Canon Camera. I have to say though, it does make me wonder if your STE-2 has an issue!

sara505

Kinkajou wrote: »

Yeah, batteries were good but I swapped them out anyway. The light stand was always about 4-7 feet from the subject and I was probably at different times within inches (testing and getting frustrated) from the flash or up to 15 feet away. No matter where I was, the pilot button worked 95% of the time and the shutter button triggered the flash about 40% of the time.... even when I stuck the camera/STE2 right up next to the flash sensor.

So... I've been looking around a bit at some other options... we'll see what I end up with next time I have some cash to throw around

I was disappointed (and mildly annoyed at having shelled out a fair amount of $ for this thing) that the STE-2 ended up being undependable for outdoors, thought about trying to sell it, but am keeping it for indoor work where it works great with multiple flash units with less hardware involved and with ETTL option. Will continue to enjoy the RC units - the total dependability - outdoors. I've even discovered that I love Manual.

Kinkajou

Yeah, it's been great indoors.

Live and learn, I guess

Kinkajou

OK - resurrecting this thread. So I've purchased the radio poppers and guess what? SAME THING!!!! When everything is set up, batteries are good, etc., I hit the test button on the transmitter/camera and everything fires properly. I go to take a shot and nothing happens. This is exactly what happened with the STE2. Has anyone had this experience before? I am about ready to give up on OCF entirely because this is so frustrating and really, really sucks when I'm trying to work the reception.

ilbcnu

I don't have the radio poppers but do use OCF quite a bit with my 7d, 580ex and cheap ebay triggers and before with my rebel xt. It seems from what you are saying - you can test and it fires - then maybe you have a setting in your camera stopping the fire when actually shooting? I don't know if that is even possible on your camera? Have you gone through and checked your in camera flash settings?

FlyNavy

I use Paul Buff Cybersyncs and love them!

Dan7312

Radio triggers are pretty reliable unless something is broken or not configured properly.

I don't have radiopoppers, I have pocketwizards but I know when I first started to use them it took a while to get things configured correctly for what I wanted to do. For example one thing that I missed was that you leave the flash configured for eTTL even when you are shooting manual.

I've seen a lot of messages over on the Accessories forum on radio triggers so you might get an answer quicker there.

There are a couple of kinds of radiopoppers and they work a bit differently so mention the model you are using. One of the models just attaches to an ST-E2, is that the one you are using? If that is the case and your ST-E2 was having intermittent problems, that may be what is causing the issue with your radio poppers.

Someone who uses radiopopper there will probably be able to give you a way to zero in on what is broken or what is not configured properly.

Dan

Kinkajou wrote: »

OK - resurrecting this thread. So I've purchased the radio poppers and guess what? SAME THING!!!! When everything is set up, batteries are good, etc., I hit the test button on the transmitter/camera and everything fires properly. I go to take a shot and nothing happens. This is exactly what happened with the STE2. Has anyone had this experience before? I am about ready to give up on OCF entirely because this is so frustrating and really, really sucks when I'm trying to work the reception.

tenoverthenose

Pocket Wizard +II's are pretty much unbeatable for reliability. I always keep a pair with me just in case...

BlueSkyPhotos

I just purchased set of Pixel Kings and I am very happy with them. They support e-ttl, groups (zones), work fine in a manual mode with ability to control all setting directly from the camera. Used them on 2 weddings and 2 e-sessions, not a single misfire. Receivers worked at 200 feet away from me, even with a fence in between. To test it, I also had my transmitter behind the wall with transmitter in the open field. No issues either. I bought it from this seller: http://bit.ly/nBQc6b. Delivered in about two weeks.

angevin1

Kinkajou wrote: »

OK - resurrecting this thread. So I've purchased the radio poppers and guess what? SAME THING!!!! When everything is set up, batteries are good, etc., I hit the test button on the transmitter/camera and everything fires properly. I go to take a shot and nothing happens. This is exactly what happened with the STE2. Has anyone had this experience before? I am about ready to give up on OCF entirely because this is so frustrating and really, really sucks when I'm trying to work the reception.

Now that you have that system. I would take advantage of their expertise and give em a call: http://radiopopper.com/support

Kinkajou

Thanks guys - I definitely plan on calling support. They are in fact the new fancy-shmancy pocket wizards (sorry about the terminology confusion there!). It's a very strange thing... I'm wondering if it might be my camera (hope not!) because the test button always works and the shutter button triggers them less than 50% of the time. Boooo.

Will let you know what I find out...