Would this technique help sales? Sports?

Ham1Ham1 Registered Users Posts: 303 Major grins
edited March 30, 2011 in Mind Your Own Business
So I have been talking to Gavin Phillips and I am going to get him to post here some examples, but I am wondering if his actions would help your sales?

Possibly show your clients something different with the hopes of increasing sales. He offers a Photoshop 3D Photo FX 'actions' and movie tutorials.

He claims to teach how to create this effect quickly in Photoshop.

He did set up a sweet exclusive 61% discount for SmugMuggers. Use coupon code: smug61 :clap:clap

Click below to see more examples and watch the demo movie,
http://www.photoeffects.biz/smugmug.html

Let me know what you guys think?

Markham
«1

Comments

  • aktseaktse Registered Users Posts: 1,928 Major grins
    edited March 26, 2011
    Ham1 wrote: »
    Let me know what you guys think?

    You want honesty? The guy is trying to take your money by charging almost $100 (without the smugmug discount) to show you how to create out of bound images (OOB) and there are already OOB images in the sports forum (along with tutorial links)

    From what I can tell this guy is selling a video of the OOB flow and some actions (basic stuff like funky paint saturated, vintage, etc)

    If you want to learn how to create OOB images, here are some tutorials on the web:
    Tutorial 1
    Tutorial 2
    Tutorial 3
    Tutorial 4
    Tutorial 5

    And there are many, many more.

    If you are the type that learns better by watching a video, then I think product is geared towards you and might help you. This product might also be for you if you have never used the various selections tools in photoshop. The key to this technique is extraction of people and objects in photoshop and it's usefully for collages and not use OOB images. I didn't buy the package, but I think he might try to give better tips on how to use the various masks features on photoshop. ne_nau.gif

    And yes, photoshop work like this does help differentiate a pro from an average shooter and may increase profits.

    Personally, I think your money is better off spent on a month of training on Kelby training or Lydia.com for photoshop/photography video lessons (like extraction, masks, layers, etc), but that's me.
  • ShimaShima Registered Users Posts: 2,547 Major grins
    edited March 26, 2011
    My personal opinion? I think they look very cheesy, not very high end... I wouldn't pay to learn how to do it if my results look like his. Just my 2 cents.
  • Ham1Ham1 Registered Users Posts: 303 Major grins
    edited March 26, 2011
    aktse wrote: »
    You want honesty?

    Glad you didn't hold back :)
  • GlortGlort Registered Users Posts: 1,015 Major grins
    edited March 27, 2011
    Ham1 wrote: »
    Glad you didn't hold back :)

    Given this reply i'm not sure if you were looking for honest opinion or just gratitous oohs and ahh's but i'm afraid I'm far from impressed as well.

    In reply to your question, Would this technique help ( sports) sales?
    No, not in a pink fit for the stuff i do most weekends.

    Furthermore, my 15 yo son who does all my graphic work looked this technique up about 6 months ago on some photoshop site and used it for the slick we present our Cd's in. I watched him do it and it took him very little time just doing it manually. I'm sure he could create a set of actions himself if we wanted to offer it.

    It works well for the application we use it but It wouldn't sell for clients.
    There is a lot of stuff I wouldn't think to offer my clients that sells in the US because in Oz there is a lot of stuff that would be seen as terribly cheezy that seems to get eaten up in America.
  • JoiJoiJoiJoi Registered Users Posts: 108 Major grins
    edited March 27, 2011
    Those look pretty bad, don't waste time or money on it... I could be mistaken but I am not sure it would affect your business level...

    Joi Cohen-Haroun
    Website :: Facebook :: Twitter
  • WachelWachel Registered Users Posts: 448 Major grins
    edited March 27, 2011
    I have to agree with everyone else. I can't see paying for this when there are plenty of free tutorials on this. I also don't like the look of it, personally.
    Michael

    <Insert some profound quote here to try and seem like a deep thinker>

    Michael Wachel Photography

    Facebook
  • SurfdogSurfdog Registered Users Posts: 297 Major grins
    edited March 28, 2011
    IMHO, the original photos look better than the "after" images. I would think clients would like them better as well.
    http://www.dvivianphoto.com

    Don't worry. I can fix you in photoshop.
  • orljustinorljustin Registered Users Posts: 193 Major grins
    edited March 28, 2011
    Shima wrote: »
    My personal opinion? I think they look very cheesy, not very high end... I wouldn't pay to learn how to do it if my results look like his. Just my 2 cents.

    Agree. Those are really bad. Especially the twisty turny corners of them.
  • GlortGlort Registered Users Posts: 1,015 Major grins
    edited March 28, 2011
    pretty unanimous opinions.
  • nikonmanicnikonmanic Registered Users Posts: 9 Beginner grinner
    edited March 28, 2011
    It appears I will be the only advocate. I bought it and it's selling pictures. I am excited to add it on as an option for my buyers. It may be cheesy, HDR may be cheesy, china doll complections may be cheesy, over saturated pics may be cheezy.....but I am so thankful for these looks/techniques. I rarely write testimonials but yesterday I did. I sent it to Gavin - I got an email from him with this link and he indicated the responses were negative. From the post above, I am surprised you guys are using digital cameras, shooting color. I am so so with Photoshop, it took me one hour to do my first and several minutes to do my 4th 3D. I have the process down now and will show my one member staff how to apply the effect today. I am sure there are tutorials on every subject under the internet sun.....and in time, perhaps, I could have figured it out. I don't have an abundance in time. For that reason I count on the Gavins in this world to help. I make a business decision and go with it. Some work many don.t. It is too early to tell how well this will do long term but so far so far, it has more than paid for itself, bigtime.
  • nikonmanicnikonmanic Registered Users Posts: 9 Beginner grinner
    edited March 28, 2011
    Ah, my second post. I wanted to complement this site. There is a wealth of help here!
  • mercphotomercphoto Registered Users Posts: 4,550 Major grins
    edited March 28, 2011
    nikonmanic wrote: »
    It appears I will be the only advocate. I bought it and it's selling pictures. I am excited to add it on as an option for my buyers. It may be cheesy, HDR may be cheesy, china doll complections may be cheesy, over saturated pics may be cheezy.....but I am so thankful for these looks/techniques. I rarely write testimonials but yesterday I did. I sent it to Gavin - I got an email from him with this link and he indicated the responses were negative. From the post above, I am surprised you guys are using digital cameras, shooting color. I am so so with Photoshop, it took me one hour to do my first and several minutes to do my 4th 3D. I have the process down now and will show my one member staff how to apply the effect today. I am sure there are tutorials on every subject under the internet sun.....and in time, perhaps, I could have figured it out. I don't have an abundance in time. For that reason I count on the Gavins in this world to help. I make a business decision and go with it. Some work many don.t. It is too early to tell how well this will do long term but so far so far, it has more than paid for itself, bigtime.

    Would love to see some of your examples of stuff that sold. Thanks!
    Bill Jurasz - Mercury Photography - Cedar Park, TX
    A former sports shooter
    Follow me at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bjurasz/
    My Etsy store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/mercphoto?ref=hdr_shop_menu
  • nikonmanicnikonmanic Registered Users Posts: 9 Beginner grinner
    edited March 28, 2011
    I have added four pics in the Lacrosse section

    goto: www.schsprep.com and then select Lacrosse, look at the last two games
  • nikonmanicnikonmanic Registered Users Posts: 9 Beginner grinner
    edited March 28, 2011
    One other site,

    www.dormancavaliers.com when I put the first pic up, I put it in the Lacrosse section. I got a number of emails inquiring on everything from "how did you do that" to "can you do that on one of my images"?
  • mercphotomercphoto Registered Users Posts: 4,550 Major grins
    edited March 28, 2011
    Big big big pet peeve of mine nikonmanic, DON'T MAKE GOING TO YOUR SITE MAXIMIZE MY BROWSER WINDOW!
    Bill Jurasz - Mercury Photography - Cedar Park, TX
    A former sports shooter
    Follow me at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bjurasz/
    My Etsy store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/mercphoto?ref=hdr_shop_menu
  • nikonmanicnikonmanic Registered Users Posts: 9 Beginner grinner
    edited March 28, 2011
    That is easy to fix. Don't go to the site......but you asked!
  • Ham1Ham1 Registered Users Posts: 303 Major grins
    edited March 28, 2011
    nikonmanic wrote: »
    I have added four pics in the Lacrosse section

    goto: www.schsprep.com and then select Lacrosse, look at the last two games

    Sounds like Gavin is selling something that can also be found free in a lot of places. Some people don't know where to look or what to look for so it could be useful to them.

    Thanks for the feedback.


    Hey I actually think this pic looks pretty good!

    http://www.schsprep.com/2010-11photos/jallcrovshs/slides/15g.html
  • mercphotomercphoto Registered Users Posts: 4,550 Major grins
    edited March 28, 2011
    Ham1 wrote: »
    Sounds like Gavin is selling something that can also be found free in a lot of places. Some people don't know where to look or what to look for so it could be useful to them.

    I've seen tutorials for this several years back myself. It looks hokey to me, but bottom line is the bottom dollar. If it sells...
    Bill Jurasz - Mercury Photography - Cedar Park, TX
    A former sports shooter
    Follow me at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bjurasz/
    My Etsy store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/mercphoto?ref=hdr_shop_menu
  • GlortGlort Registered Users Posts: 1,015 Major grins
    edited March 28, 2011
    nikonmanic wrote: »
    It appears I will be the only advocate. I bought it and it's selling pictures. I am excited to add it on as an option for my buyers. It may be cheesy, HDR may be cheesy, china doll complections may be cheesy, over saturated pics may be cheezy.....but I am so thankful for these looks/techniques. I rarely write testimonials but yesterday I did. I sent it to Gavin - I got an email from him with this link and he indicated the responses were negative. From the post above, I am surprised you guys are using digital cameras, shooting color. I am so so with Photoshop, it took me one hour to do my first and several minutes to do my 4th 3D. I have the process down now and will show my one member staff how to apply the effect today. I am sure there are tutorials on every subject under the internet sun.....and in time, perhaps, I could have figured it out. I don't have an abundance in time. For that reason I count on the Gavins in this world to help. I make a business decision and go with it. Some work many don.t. It is too early to tell how well this will do long term but so far so far, it has more than paid for itself, bigtime.

    You will understand if i think your very well written "testimonial" here sounds like an advertising pitch for the product through having all the hallmarks of a marketing piece.

    While it's nice that it's initially working for you, that Pic linked above makes my eyes hurt and initially feel off balance.
    In any case, the fact remains the technique is neither difficult nor particularly time consuming to do manually.
    If a person did want to offer it, the smart business move would be to offer it and then see the response before paying out for a tool hey may never get to use.
    Of course once a person did do it manually, I doubt they would bother buying an action to produce it.
  • angevin1angevin1 Registered Users Posts: 3,403 Major grins
    edited March 28, 2011
    nikonmanic wrote: »
    One other site,

    www.dormancavaliers.com when I put the first pic up, I put it in the Lacrosse section. I got a number of emails inquiring on everything from "how did you do that" to "can you do that on one of my images"?


    Congrats on the Inquiries! As Glort said, Americans eat this stuff up! So, feed 'em!:D
    tom wise
  • WachelWachel Registered Users Posts: 448 Major grins
    edited March 29, 2011
    Nothing wrong with cheesy if that is what people want....the customer is always right. Good for Gavin for coming up with something to sell. But you can't ask for opinions then be upset when you get honest responses.

    My issue is that it's easy to do without paying a lot of money. But if there are people that want to use it and there are people that want to buy it....BRAVO. Just not my style.
    Michael

    <Insert some profound quote here to try and seem like a deep thinker>

    Michael Wachel Photography

    Facebook
  • nikonmanicnikonmanic Registered Users Posts: 9 Beginner grinner
    edited March 29, 2011
    Interesting, I wish someone would pay me for a testimonial. I would write them all day long. Whatever! I love photography, at age 66 I am more excited about the direction our business is headed than I started. However, I also love making money, lots of it. Is it ART?........ don't know and don't care, will someone buy it and tell others?....... now that's where the rubber meets the road. In reality, I can't fill up my car for 50.00 or take my wife out to dinner. So to call it an investment is comical. I did not stew in my juices over this purchase. My only concern was, can I follow the process and duplicate it quickly.....more importantly can I teach my staffer to do it. I am not a master in PS....I do not have time to ramp that up. I keep a subscription to Kelby training and Lynda.com just to keep up with all that is going on. I don't mind paying for help. OnOne, Topaz, Nik, portraiture, and other software lines our studio shelves....and we will surely buy more. Some will get lot of use.....some none. From the beginnings though....and yep the jury is still out, this process is getting a lot of attention. Of the twenty two picture orders that came in over the weekend 7 asked if this effect could be used on their pic. With Lacrosse entering the playoffs and soccer, tennis, softball, baseball, and track lasting through May my guess is I will have a pretty good handle on whether this is a process that we will keep in our quiver. Is it something folks will tire of, I think so........ but until it does, ching ching.

    GLort........sorry my pic threw you off balance and you now have a case of hurting eyes. You might try taking the blinders off, a lot of my purist friends have done that and low and behold, "ching ching!"
  • GlortGlort Registered Users Posts: 1,015 Major grins
    edited March 29, 2011
    nikonmanic wrote: »
    Interesting, I wish someone would pay me for a testimonial. I would write them all day long. Whatever! I love photography, at age 66 I am more excited about the direction our business is headed than I started. However, I also love making money, lots of it. Is it ART?........ don't know and don't care, will someone buy it and tell others?....... now that's where the rubber meets the road. In reality, I can't fill up my car for 50.00 or take my wife out to dinner. So to call it an investment is comical. I did not stew in my juices over this purchase. My only concern was, can I follow the process and duplicate it quickly.....more importantly can I teach my staffer to do it. I am not a master in PS....I do not have time to ramp that up. I keep a subscription to Kelby training and Lynda.com just to keep up with all that is going on. I don't mind paying for help. OnOne, Topaz, Nik, portraiture, and other software lines our studio shelves....and we will surely buy more. Some will get lot of use.....some none. From the beginnings though....and yep the jury is still out, this process is getting a lot of attention. Of the twenty two picture orders that came in over the weekend 7 asked if this effect could be used on their pic. With Lacrosse entering the playoffs and soccer, tennis, softball, baseball, and track lasting through May my guess is I will have a pretty good handle on whether this is a process that we will keep in our quiver. Is it something folks will tire of, I think so........ but until it does, ching ching.

    GLort........sorry my pic threw you off balance and you now have a case of hurting eyes. You might try taking the blinders off, a lot of my purist friends have done that and low and behold, "ching ching!"

    The more someone trys to convince me to buy something on a forum, the more suspect I become of it. rolleyes1.gif

    As for taking the the blinkers off, I took your advise.

    To avoid any bias, I went to my son and said " I found this great new set of actions i'm going to get, check this out. "
    I said it with enthuasiam so as the only way he could be biased was towards it. I'm always more than happy to be proven wrong when it's to my financial benifit.

    I showed him the links and the demo.
    His Comments, "That's a complete waste of time Dad, what a load of S**t."
    Not to be put off, I said dont you think this would be something different they would go for? He said no. I asked why not, no one offers this.
    His exact words, " Its way too cheesy".

    He then said, " the 3d thing is the only thing that might be worthwhile but I have that tutorial on the effect and it's what I did for the Dvd covers. We could do a sample and put it up but I can tell you no one will want it and if they do, I can do it myself. The rest of the actions are a waste of time and no one is ever going to buy them".

    Now he could be wrong, no question, but the bottom line is I trust his judgement especially when it gells perfectly with my own opinion.
    He has pushed me to offer a few different products I thought would never fly and they are our best sellers and he's also warned me against things I was dead sure of and proved he was right. Given he is at least 20 years closer to the average age of our clients than I am, I have no doubt he is more in touch with them than i am.

    As such, all i can say is his track record with what sells for us has proven on the money and as such I trust his opinion.
    It would have been much easier for him to go with me rather than against me so at the end of the day with little confidence in sales and the ability to produce the only possibly worthwhile effect easily and for free anyway.

    If it's working for you, that's great and I wish you all the best with it.
  • nikonmanicnikonmanic Registered Users Posts: 9 Beginner grinner
    edited March 29, 2011
    Sound like you need to purchase a "key man" insurance policy on little Ansel - "up" his allowance. Glort if you were closer I would invite you over for a spot of tea........you sound like an very interesting guy. I am assuming you are a guy. By the way, are you familiar with Box Hill High School in Victoria? I shot a load of pictures of their basketball team when they toured the US.
  • nikonmanicnikonmanic Registered Users Posts: 9 Beginner grinner
    edited March 29, 2011
    I just visited the sites from those who have posted on this thread and am not too sure why you responded. Most of your work (excepting the guy who does cars) would not be a fit, period. I would have to agree. a bride busting out from a snapshot would be a little over the edge. The person who started this thread referenced SPORTS. Another observation, I didn't go to a site that wasn't photoshop dependent. That's not a bad thing, just be very careful throwing the cheesy word around.

    Glort, where are your pics, I would love to see your work!.....and your sons'.
  • ShimaShima Registered Users Posts: 2,547 Major grins
    edited March 29, 2011
    Glort wrote: »
    The more someone trys to convince me to buy something on a forum, the more suspect I become of it. rolleyes1.gif

    His Comments, "That's a complete waste of time Dad, what a load of S**t."

    His exact words, " Its way too cheesy".

    Well said sir, well said.

    The excessive amount of time trying to convince us of the usefulness of this is just sad and further proving that it's suspicious.

    Also I'd like to add that while my primary market is weddings, I do shoot sports on occasion too... and part of my sports shooting where I might one day consider using something like this (ONLY if it was actually done proper and looked nothing like these examples) would be for my martial arts portraits I do for the students every year, I think some of the younger kids would get a huge kick out of it. But again, if it looks like the examples posted for sale here, I'd stay far away from it.
  • WachelWachel Registered Users Posts: 448 Major grins
    edited March 29, 2011
    Nikonmanic: I am 100% sure this action wouldn't be a fit for my type of work. I was commenting as a person that has kids...in other words...a consumer. 90% of my photos don't touch photoshop.

    This product works for you. Great. Everyone else here is just giving their opinions since they were asked for them. Because most opinions here differ from yours you seem to be taking it personally. Respect other people's opinions as you would have them respect yours.
    Michael

    <Insert some profound quote here to try and seem like a deep thinker>

    Michael Wachel Photography

    Facebook
  • GlortGlort Registered Users Posts: 1,015 Major grins
    edited March 29, 2011
    The excessive amount of time trying to convince us of the usefulness of this is just sad and further proving that it's suspicious.
    Couldn't have said it better.

    I have seen a phenonomena on a number of forums before where a discussion takes place, ( always about a product or service) a new member of that forum appears, argues vigarously in support of the product and trys to convince everyone it works, is a miracle etc, posts ONLY on that single thread or topic and then dissappears as fast as they appeared never to be heard from again once they fail to convert the opinion of the respondents to their way of thinking.
    It seems a pretty well worn and now Transparent dodgy marketing tactic.

    Given this experience and the similarities I am detecting here, my suspicions about certain posters comments are certainly raised. Time may tell if my concersn are justified.

    I have an interest in an alternative fuel i have been running my car on for 5 years with great success. If someone tells me that it dosen't work or it will destroy my engine, etc, I don't go into rants about why they should use it with veiled insults and innuendo or try to tell them they are wrong for not using it.
    It really dosen't matter a damn to me if they use it or not or if they think i'm a lunatic. If people are ignorant or biased or afraid or whatever, so be it.

    I have nothing to gain ( or loose) if they try it or not so there is no incentive for me to try to change peoples mind, PARTICULARLY when getting a whole load of people onto the idea may in fact prove a disadvantage to myself.
    Now if someone asks about it, sure I'll tell them what they want to know but I tell them the facts and not try to convince them that they should be doing it.

    Another of my behaviours is that when i find something that I think or proves to be a marketing advantage over my competitors and will give me an edge over them, i'm kinda cagey who I tell and the last thing i try to do is convince all and sundry on a public forum that they should be doing it too. it's hard to get ahead in a competitive and oversaturated market so just like in any avenue of business, when you think you have got a an edge over the competition, the last thing you want to do is loose your advantage by putting them onto it.

    Of course if I was trying to market something and getting as many people to buy it as possible was the aim, then I would certainly have a different approach.

    And one final thought comes to my always suspicious mind that relates to when I did some researching on lying once.

    One key thing they say about spotting an untruth or a biased witness is to assess if the person is merely trying to relay facts or experiences or going to pains and effort to convince you of them and make you believe what they are saying.

    I have found that a very useful test of information to keep in mind.
  • nikonmanicnikonmanic Registered Users Posts: 9 Beginner grinner
    edited March 29, 2011
    I agree with you Wachel......your photography does not lend itself to Gavin's process. However if 90 percent of your pics are not retouched in lightroom, photoshop, NX2, Aperture.........then the 10 percent that are retouched populate your linked website. Surely you don't expect me to believe your site pics are out of the camera.

    For those hoping I will disappear.....that's gonna happen. It's spring break here and we are headed for Boston tomorrow morning then up the coast to Ogunquit Maine, we plan on taking a lot of pics.....will return on the 20th to face a few scheduled weddings, I so don't look forward to them.

    Cheers!
  • angevin1angevin1 Registered Users Posts: 3,403 Major grins
    edited March 29, 2011
    nikonmanic wrote: »
    I just visited the sites from those who have posted on this thread and am not too sure why you responded.

    I responded because I thought you were on the right track. Some folks DO eat up Cheesey stuff. And Some folks need to be there to collect the money when they want to buy it. it's not my gig, but I dig it when somebody else does it! Someone's got to feed the Cheese eaters~ Some folks call colorized Cheesey, and others call purists cheesey. I wouldn't get too attached to the label. The Color is: Green.
    tom wise
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