Canon Tilt and Shift Lens

Dan7312

I'm not a pro but I'm looking at the different Canon tilt and shift lenses because it's something I've want to try my hand at for a long time. I've got a bunch of questions here because I want to understand the trade-offs and differences between the T and S lenses Canon offers.

The 17 and 24 have a "rotate" function that the other do not appear to not have. I think I understand the geometry of swings and tilts, though I never used a camera that had them, and I assume the tilt and shift means the about the same thing, but I don't know what rotate means other than the obvious that your can rotate the axis of the tilt and shift. Why is this a useful feature? If I get a T and S lens it will be for a 7D. I want to get because I want to remove the convergence of lines in the image, not PS, and I want to pull near and far into focus too.

One of the T and S lens is 90mm. It seems like T and S lens would intrinsically be wide angle. Why is there a 90mm T and S lens and is it used a lot? Is it just that it took a long time for Canon to make a wide angle T and S lens?

The manual for the lenses recommends using a FF camera. On the 7D the FOV will be smaller, but that is true for any lens. Other than that why does Canon specifically recommend FF camera? Wouldn't using the 17 on a 7D be about the same as using about a 26 on an FF?

The 17 looks to me like a fish-eye lens because the glass sticks out, but the images on the Canon site appear to have perfect perspective and straight lines. I assume that one of the things that makes these lenses special is the fact that they don't distort the image. Is that the case?

The 24 looks like it is the newest of the series. Does it that imply something the others don't have?

Looking at the MTF charts of the 17 and 24 (I only have a basic understanding of them and I know they are not the be all and end all of IQ) it looks like a mixed bag in terms of comparing resolution between them. As much as you can tell from the sample images on the Canon site they seem to be similar in IQ. Is that the case?

I think one of the purposes of these lenses is architectural photography. I know I'm not very specific about what I would use the lens for but as an amateur I'm mostly trying to learn to apply new things.

Thanks in advance for any info/insights!

Qarik

I have the nikkor 45mm T/S fyi. I imagine the concepts are identical in either system. Regarding rotating the tilt/shift axis..Lets say you are shooting landscape mode..the tilt (which gives you DOF control) is for example is configurable in the vertical direction, the shift (the perspective control) is only configurable in the Y direction. "Rotating" allows you to switch the X and Y. This very important because if you intend to shoot architecture and you could not change your tilt/shit axis then you would be stuck with perspective control in only 1 direction..so then you would be stuck shooting building in only portrait mode for example.

with regard to near short telephoto T/S lens...think portraits. Architectural work is not the only application. There are some wedding guys who shoot T/S (like me!).

As far as the bulbous front end of the 17mm, that in itself does not indicate "fisheye" at all, though fisheyes lens are often bulbous. The nikkor 14-24mm (the most optically perfect WA zoom ever made) has an extremely bulbous front element.

DavidTO

The rotate does exactly what you said. Sometimes you want to tilt/shift horizontally and sometimes vertically.

The lenses will be fine on your camera. I wouldn't worry about Canon's comment too much. They are both very big and heavy. I have the mark one model of the 24mm and I can tell you the new one is significantly larger. The 17 and the new 24 both have better IQ than the mark one 24mm, but you could get the mark one for a much lower price. It might make sense for you. I shot with this tilt lens on my 20D.

I believe you can't put a filter on the 17, btw. Something to think about if you want to use a polarizer or something.

Maybe you should rent them first, see what you think. You can rent the older and the newer model 24s, as well.

Dan7312

Thanks for the info!

Are you using the T/S at weddings because of it's IQ or do you make use of T/S? It seems like it would be pretty time consuming to setup the T/S.

Qarik wrote: »

with regard to near short telephoto T/S lens...think portraits. Architectural work is not the only application. There are some wedding guys who shoot T/S (like me!).

As far as the bulbous front end of the 17mm, that in itself does not indicate "fisheye" at all, though fisheyes lens are often bulbous. The nikkor 14-24mm (the most optically perfect WA zoom ever made) has an extremely bulbous front element.

Dan7312

Thanks for the info!

Doing a rental is a good idea as I don't have a specific purpose.

DavidTO wrote: »

Maybe you should rent them first, see what you think. You can rent the older and the newer model 24s, as well.

Scott_Quier

I have the 24mm T/S (Mark II) and here's some of what I've found:

• The rotate function allows one to set the axis of these two function independantly of the other. Users of the Mark I would sometimes make a DIY bench mod to re-align the tilt and shift to suit thier needs. I belive Andy is one of those that did this. But this is something you can't do in the field. With the Mark II, you can change the relative alignment from one shot to the next. Indeed, the axis of each need not be on the 90° points.
• The IQ of the 24mm Mark II is said to much better than the Mark I.
• Some have said the Mark II is heavy. It may be heavier than the Mark I - don't know. I've found it to be about the same (weight and size) as my EF 24-105 f/4L.
• The T/S is now my "go to" lens for landscape photography.
• One of the neat functions of the shift for landscape work is you can use this adjustment to make two images that will combine (in post processing) to form a small(ish) pano without moving the camera between shots. Assuming you have the camera decently leveled before making the exposures, this make the stitching process go very nicely.
• The learning curve to use the 24mm is not as steep as I thought it would be, but the lens is different from any other I have.

Dan7312

Thanks for the info!

So to make a mini-pano you would set the tilt axis so that it is vertical, tilt the lens to, say, the extreme left, take a shot, then shift to the extreme right (or maybe step in the middle) and take a shot, then stitch in post? So you are tilting the lens instead of "tilting" the camers, that sound pretty neat to me.

Do you re-focus between tilts? Is parallax an issue when you do this? I guess I'm over-analyzing and I should rent this lens to try it out.:D

Scott_Quier wrote: »

I have the 24mm T/S (Mark II) and here's some of what I've found:

• One of the neat functions of the shift for landscape work is you can use this adjustment to make two images that will combine (in post processing) to form a small(ish) pano without moving the camera between shots. Assuming you have the camera decently leveled before making the exposures, this make the stitching process go very nicely.
• The learning curve to use the 24mm is not as steep as I thought it would be, but the lens is different from any other I have.

ziggy53

Dan7312 wrote: »

Thanks for the info!

So to make a mini-pano you would set the tilt axis so that it is vertical, tilt the lens to, say, the extreme left, take a shot, then shift to the extreme right (or maybe step in the middle) and take a shot, then stitch in post? So you are tilting the lens instead of "tilting" the camers, that sound pretty neat to me.

Do you re-focus between tilts? Is parallax an issue when you do this? I guess I'm over-analyzing and I should rent this lens to try it out.:D

I don't believe that you use the "tilt" mechanism, rather you use the "shift" mechanism, oriented in the direction of the intended panorama.

Tilt alters perspective and you want to avoid tilt if possible to maintain the same geometry during this type of stitched panorama.

divamum

Dan, hopefully Qarik will pop back in and share some of his awesome TS wedding shots, but the short answer to your question is: DOF control. You can achieve some wonderfully creative and artistic effects with extreme DOF using a TS lens.

You can also create a sort of "miniature" effect (especially when shooting from above onto a scene). Some people think it's gimmicky but I personally LOVE the look. Canon's s95 (compact) camera has a "faux" TS effect built into it (you can also achieve this in PS), which I really enjoyed using when in Scotland earlier this year:

Scott_Quier

Dan7312 wrote: »

Thanks for the info!

So to make a mini-pano you would set the tilt axis so that it is vertical, tilt the lens to, say, the extreme left, take a shot, then shift to the extreme right (or maybe step in the middle) and take a shot, then stitch in post? So you are tilting the lens instead of "tilting" the camers, that sound pretty neat to me.

Do you re-focus between tilts? Is parallax an issue when you do this? I guess I'm over-analyzing and I should rent this lens to try it out.:D

Set tilt to neutral. If you are going a horizontal pano, move the shift nearly to full extent left and take a shot. Repeat to the right. Stitch in your PP software.

On a FF camera, the image circle is not large enough for a full shift without serious light fall-off, hence the "nearly to the full shift extent".

And no, there is no re-focus between shots. And no parallax issues. And, yes, you are over-thinking this. And, yes, you should rent one and give it a play. And, maybe, research the function and effects of both tilt and shift movements. Your research will, most likely reference large format view cameras, but the principles still apply.

Dan7312

Thanks, that makes sense now. You use tilt to get rid of converging lines, wich means it can also make the converge.

ziggy53 wrote: »

I don't believe that you use the "tilt" mechanism, rather you use the "shift" mechanism, oriented in the direction of the intended panorama.

Tilt alters perspective and you want to avoid tilt if possible to maintain the same geometry during this type of stitched panorama.

Dan7312

Scott_Quier wrote: »

. And, yes, you are over-thinking this. And, yes, you should rent one and give it a play..

Dan7312

Thanks, yup, I'm going to rent one to give it a try. Hopefully in the next week or so I'll post my results... good or bad:D

divamum wrote: »

Dan, hopefully Qarik will pop back in and share some of his awesome TS wedding shots, but the short answer to your question is: DOF control. You can achieve some wonderfully creative and artistic effects with extreme DOF using a TS lens.

DavidTO

FYI: the miniature effect works better on the telephoto versions of the tilt/shift. In the wide angles it's not as dramatic.