A simple light modifier like the one provided with the SB800 will soften the flash shadows considerably.
No it won't. A softer light source is a larger light source. The tiny diffuser dome that comes with the SB800 or 900, or a Stofen dome, etc. does very little to increase the size of the actual lights source itself. What it will do when indoors is bounce the light out in all directions. Thus the light bounces off the ceiling, the walls, the people around you, etc. and softens the contrast between the direct-flash lit areas of the face and the shadow areas. However, the hard lines of the direct flash are usually still quite visible if you look. It's nicer though because the light bouncing around the room creates a soft fill light. When you're shooting outdoors away from walls and ceilings, you don't get this effect and using a diffuser dome only serves to decrease your flash power (the last thing you want when competing against the sun.
The problem with the overexposed backgrounds can be dealt with in two ways if you want to keep using natural light. Either go with it and find a background that looks good when it's overexposed, or find a place to shoot such that the sun is coming from behind your subject AND your background. This would make the exposure on your subject equal to the background exposure because they're both in the same type of shade, and you'd still get rim-lighting effect on your subject. So maybe there's a tree, or a building , with the sun coming from just behind it, and you place your subject in front of it, facing away from the sun. The subject and the background are both in shade from your perspective, but the sun is still hitting your subject from behind. Of course, that's hard to do at the beach, but it works in other locations.
To overpower the sun in broad daylight, especially at the beach, you need one of the following:
A) bare flash from a fairly close distance modified (umbrella, softbox, etc) flash from a very close distance, like 1 foot from the subject's face
C) a camera with an electronic shutter like the D40 or D70, or a Canon G-series point and shoot, that can sync with the flash at any speed using a TTL cord
D) a bunch of small flashes ganged up for more power (you can be like Joe McNally and use 8 SB800's) so you can have more options with distance and modifiers
OR, the best option if you want to do this a lot and you want the most flexibility in terms of light placement and softness of light:
Get a bigger light! Get a monolight around 600 w/s or higher (or some other higher-powered light) and a portable power source to run it off, and you can overpower the sunlight from much more comfortable working distances and using modifiers which give softer light. I have a Paul C. Buff Einstein for this purpose, and paired up with the Vagabond Mini Lithium battery (3.5 lbs!) it's a great combo that gives me plenty of power for outdoor portraits. There's lots of other lights of course, like the Alienbee 1600, White Lighting XL1600, or Photogenic lights, or higher end stuff like Prophoto and Elinchrom. But seriously, if you're in the $500 budget range just get an Einstein, nothing else even comes close for the money. IMO nothing comes close for double the money either, due to some key features (like a 9 stop power range... it goes from 640 w/s to 2.5 w/s... about the same as a speedlight on 1/16 power... That's amazing in itself, and it does it all with no more than a 50K shift in color temperature).
A simple light modifier like the one provided with the SB800 will soften the flash shadows considerably.
No it won't. A softer light source is a larger light source. The tiny diffuser dome that comes with the SB800 or 900, or a Stofen dome, etc. does very little to increase the size of the actual lights source itself. What it will do when indoors is bounce the light out in all directions. Thus the light bounces off the ceiling, the walls, the people around you, etc. and softens the contrast between the direct-flash lit areas of the face and the shadow areas. However, the hard lines of the direct flash are usually still quite visible if you look. It's nicer though because the light bouncing around the room creates a soft fill light. When you're shooting outdoors away from walls and ceilings, you don't get this effect and using a diffuser dome only serves to decrease your flash power (the last thing you want when competing against the sun.
I correct myself, when using the light modofier at a recent red carpet event outdoors I used the speed-light in manual mode based on my calculations. Weather it reduced harshness of shadows over that of bare flash I have not fully compared side by side though I can say that I had no harsh lines anywhere.
Thanks for pointing out my error as TTL can not compensate for light modifiers....
Thanks for pointing out my error as TTL can not compensate for light modifiers....
Sure it can, and does. It will compensate for modifiers, such as umbrellas, diffusers, softboxes, etc. as well as ceilings, walls, and so on. TTL means "Through The Lens". It works by firing a preflash (which goes through or bounces off of whatever modifiers you're using) which is metered "through the lens" by the camera's meter. Based on this preflash the camera calculates what power to fire the main flash, which is synced with your actual exposure. Because the preflash comes from your flash head and is modified in the exact same way as your actual flash burst, it doesn't matter how you modify the flash. TTL mode works either way. If this was not true, TTL would only work with bare flash pointed right at your subject... but it doesn't. It work when bouncing flash, using a diffuser, and even using the flash off camera through an umbrella or softbox.
So there is no need to worry about the decreased light output with a modifier then in TTL mode in unless the falsh does not have enough power to overcome the suns rays for instance....
I learn something new all the time and quite frankly I need to shoot TTL more than I do to see if there are advantages over shooting manual which is my norm.
Thanks for enlightening me Tim and I hope this helps the original poster as well....
I'm sure you know but some might not. Whenever you put something over your flash, stofen or umbrella or box you will lose some of the power of the flash. Just a fact of life. For a softer light you want a LARGE light source and you want it close. Look at your shadow from the sun and see how sharp it is. Because it is a small source and far away.
Tim, are you happy with the mini? I've got the vagabond but would rather go with the mini. About how many flashes at full 600 power?
I love it so far, haven't got to use it on a shoot yet but I'll be getting a lot of use come senior season. I also have a Vagabond II which I'm going to try to sell. It's great, but it's too heavy to be lugging around all the time. I want to stay mobile when I'm on location. The VII is a double edged sword, because it works great as a sandbag, but that's because it's heavy. I decided I'd rather have the option to go light, and then just take an actual sandbag if the situation called for it.
That's less than the VII and the recycle time is not as fast, but that's a trade I'm willing to make to be able to grab my light with one hand and walk over to where I want to shoot.
Thanks Tim. I'm in the same boat on the weight issue. About ready to pull the trigger. Hope they get the inventory up soon.
Just order, you'll get it in two weeks according to their website. I waited a month for mine after ordering on Feb. 7. I could have been waiting for them to not be backordered, and I'd still be waiting to order... instead, I've had it for a month already.
You guys need Heatherfeather in this thread. She tells me today that she is getting a custom bracket made to fire a wheelbarrow load of speedlights through an umbrella!
...and she does these types of shots REALLY well!:D
Nikolai, what are the potato mashers in the photo? Sunpacks or Ascors? I wish I kept my Rollei's E36RE's.
Those are my oldest pair: Sunpacks 555. I changed at least 7 camera bodies since that time, but those little guys just work and work :-)
Used them on the beach, in the desert, in the mountains, for weddings, receiptions, events, red carpets, fashion shows... Very versatile setup...
Thats the way to do it. 3 seems alittle over exposed but it is tought to get them all correct in the heat of the moment. Don't you just hate lugging that Vagabond around. Buff does make some good products.
About the HDR idea earlier...the only problem with that and portraits is that people move, and HDR requires multiple images perfectly in register. So HDR is often not ideal for pics with people in them, unless they can hold very still. Better to attack the problem with high-powered lighting as we are seeing.
Thats the way to do it. 3 seems alittle over exposed but it is tought to get them all correct in the heat of the moment. Don't you just hate lugging that Vagabond around. Buff does make some good products.
Thanks alot for posting and the pullbacks.
Thus why I always have an assistant . Here is some automotive strobist in my garage shot into the sun.
What about ND filters?
Around f16 gives you hard shadows and shallower DOF, strobes are not as diffussed also. You get the face properly exposed and everything is darker as you move away from the face.
Does anyone have any experience using ND filters + flash in Devils light?
Just order, you'll get it in two weeks according to their website. I waited a month for mine after ordering on Feb. 7. I could have been waiting for them to not be backordered, and I'd still be waiting to order... instead, I've had it for a month already.
\
Tim, you talked me into it. Ordered it Wednesday and got an email today it till be in Monday. Gotta love Paul Buff. Also got another call today and I believe I've sold the Vagabond.
Yup I love paul c buff products. Super customer service also. Way more efficient ordering it over the phone. Heck I got a few small freebies added into my last order.
Thats the way to do it. 3 seems alittle over exposed but it is tought to get them all correct in the heat of the moment. Don't you just hate lugging that Vagabond around. Buff does make some good products.
Thanks alot for posting and the pullbacks.
For these shots, I just used a reflector to bounce light back into the model's face. Seemed to work well, and much less bulky than a full strobe setup.
Unless you are trying for the results you have here there might be some issues if you submit them for competition judging. You have some great ideas here. I like the rim lighting on the back edge of her arms and trunk.
Comments
No it won't. A softer light source is a larger light source. The tiny diffuser dome that comes with the SB800 or 900, or a Stofen dome, etc. does very little to increase the size of the actual lights source itself. What it will do when indoors is bounce the light out in all directions. Thus the light bounces off the ceiling, the walls, the people around you, etc. and softens the contrast between the direct-flash lit areas of the face and the shadow areas. However, the hard lines of the direct flash are usually still quite visible if you look. It's nicer though because the light bouncing around the room creates a soft fill light. When you're shooting outdoors away from walls and ceilings, you don't get this effect and using a diffuser dome only serves to decrease your flash power (the last thing you want when competing against the sun.
The problem with the overexposed backgrounds can be dealt with in two ways if you want to keep using natural light. Either go with it and find a background that looks good when it's overexposed, or find a place to shoot such that the sun is coming from behind your subject AND your background. This would make the exposure on your subject equal to the background exposure because they're both in the same type of shade, and you'd still get rim-lighting effect on your subject. So maybe there's a tree, or a building , with the sun coming from just behind it, and you place your subject in front of it, facing away from the sun. The subject and the background are both in shade from your perspective, but the sun is still hitting your subject from behind. Of course, that's hard to do at the beach, but it works in other locations.
To overpower the sun in broad daylight, especially at the beach, you need one of the following:
A) bare flash from a fairly close distance
C) a camera with an electronic shutter like the D40 or D70, or a Canon G-series point and shoot, that can sync with the flash at any speed using a TTL cord
D) a bunch of small flashes ganged up for more power (you can be like Joe McNally and use 8 SB800's) so you can have more options with distance and modifiers
OR, the best option if you want to do this a lot and you want the most flexibility in terms of light placement and softness of light:
Get a bigger light! Get a monolight around 600 w/s or higher (or some other higher-powered light) and a portable power source to run it off, and you can overpower the sunlight from much more comfortable working distances and using modifiers which give softer light. I have a Paul C. Buff Einstein for this purpose, and paired up with the Vagabond Mini Lithium battery (3.5 lbs!) it's a great combo that gives me plenty of power for outdoor portraits. There's lots of other lights of course, like the Alienbee 1600, White Lighting XL1600, or Photogenic lights, or higher end stuff like Prophoto and Elinchrom. But seriously, if you're in the $500 budget range just get an Einstein, nothing else even comes close for the money. IMO nothing comes close for double the money either, due to some key features (like a 9 stop power range... it goes from 640 w/s to 2.5 w/s... about the same as a speedlight on 1/16 power... That's amazing in itself, and it does it all with no more than a 50K shift in color temperature).
/raving about Einstein
http://blog.timkphotography.com
I correct myself, when using the light modofier at a recent red carpet event outdoors I used the speed-light in manual mode based on my calculations. Weather it reduced harshness of shadows over that of bare flash I have not fully compared side by side though I can say that I had no harsh lines anywhere.
Thanks for pointing out my error as TTL can not compensate for light modifiers....
Sure it can, and does. It will compensate for modifiers, such as umbrellas, diffusers, softboxes, etc. as well as ceilings, walls, and so on. TTL means "Through The Lens". It works by firing a preflash (which goes through or bounces off of whatever modifiers you're using) which is metered "through the lens" by the camera's meter. Based on this preflash the camera calculates what power to fire the main flash, which is synced with your actual exposure. Because the preflash comes from your flash head and is modified in the exact same way as your actual flash burst, it doesn't matter how you modify the flash. TTL mode works either way. If this was not true, TTL would only work with bare flash pointed right at your subject... but it doesn't. It work when bouncing flash, using a diffuser, and even using the flash off camera through an umbrella or softbox.
http://blog.timkphotography.com
www.cameraone.biz
I learn something new all the time and quite frankly I need to shoot TTL more than I do to see if there are advantages over shooting manual which is my norm.
Thanks for enlightening me Tim and I hope this helps the original poster as well....
www.cameraone.biz
HTH -
- Wil
PS: Check out about using a grey-card also.
I love it so far, haven't got to use it on a shoot yet but I'll be getting a lot of use come senior season. I also have a Vagabond II which I'm going to try to sell. It's great, but it's too heavy to be lugging around all the time. I want to stay mobile when I'm on location. The VII is a double edged sword, because it works great as a sandbag, but that's because it's heavy. I decided I'd rather have the option to go light, and then just take an actual sandbag if the situation called for it.
The VML gets about 540 full power pops on one charge from a AB1600 and about 440 from an Einstein according to this review (all you want to know pretty much): http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-11314-11226
That's less than the VII and the recycle time is not as fast, but that's a trade I'm willing to make to be able to grab my light with one hand and walk over to where I want to shoot.
http://blog.timkphotography.com
www.cameraone.biz
www.cameraone.biz
Just order, you'll get it in two weeks according to their website. I waited a month for mine after ordering on Feb. 7. I could have been waiting for them to not be backordered, and I'd still be waiting to order... instead, I've had it for a month already.
http://www.alienbees.com/vmini.html
http://blog.timkphotography.com
...and she does these types of shots REALLY well!:D
Jeff
-Need help with Dgrin?; Wedding Photography Resources
-My Website - Blog - Tips for Senior Portraiture
Those are my oldest pair: Sunpacks 555. I changed at least 7 camera bodies since that time, but those little guys just work and work :-)
Used them on the beach, in the desert, in the mountains, for weddings, receiptions, events, red carpets, fashion shows... Very versatile setup...
Tommie by SuicidnS13, on Flickr
Tommie by SuicidnS13, on Flickr
Shiloh by SuicidnS13, on Flickr
BTS(Pullback) for the above shot
BTS 2 by SuicidnS13, on Flickr
Morphose by SuicidnS13, on Flickr
More BTS Shots by SuicidnS13, on Flickr
Thanks alot for posting and the pullbacks.
www.cameraone.biz
Thus why I always have an assistant
S14 by SuicidnS13, on Flickr
S14 by SuicidnS13, on Flickr
Around f16 gives you hard shadows and shallower DOF, strobes are not as diffussed also. You get the face properly exposed and everything is darker as you move away from the face.
Does anyone have any experience using ND filters + flash in Devils light?
DavidBroadwell.com, My Smugmug Home
Tim, you talked me into it. Ordered it Wednesday and got an email today it till be in Monday. Gotta love Paul Buff. Also got another call today and I believe I've sold the Vagabond.
www.cameraone.biz
For these shots, I just used a reflector to bounce light back into the model's face. Seemed to work well, and much less bulky than a full strobe setup.
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Thanks,
Theo
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