How do you charge your family and friends??

Zet

Just wondering how you handel photographing requests from your friends and family. How do you charge them? Free? Just cost of prints? 50% off, make them pay like all your other clients?

Siblings?
Cousins?
Close friends (like childhood friend, best buddy since high school)
Aquatiences (like from your child's school or church etc.)

Skatingzooyork

If they are very close friends, usually free otherwise I offer a 20% discount to people I know.

Oh and I do have a special print price list that still covers my time/effort but it's not inflated.

Glort

Close friends..... Wouldn't dream of charging them!
They would ( and often do) do things for me and wouldn't charge me, in a lot of cases, even their costs. Least I can do is repay the things they do for me
with what little I can do for them.
We dont make money off each other, it's not our way.

I shot my friends Nephews wedding earlier this year free of charge. It was his gift to them. He offered to pay, I wouldn't take a cent off him. He does so much for me and helps me in so many ways I wouldn't let him pay for a thing I could affford to give him and my wife would crack my skull if I ever tried. The thing is, he never expects me to pay for anything on his behalf but will spend his own money on me.

For aquatiences ( I'm fussy whom I call a friend) it would probably be something like an extra service I didn't charge my time for and maybe some discounted prints.

I don't have any family myself, it's all my wifes family and she isn't particularly close to any of them so with the exception of her brothers family, ( whom has also helped me out on infrequent occasion) I would look after them with some discounts as I felt like at the time and that would be about it.

Snowgirl

Close friends and immediate family (that I like - ) - no charge for my services and prints "at cost" (no markup). Acquaintances and returning customers - % discount and/or add-on service. Seems like a reasonable approach.

Art Scott

Glort wrote: »

Close friends..... Wouldn't dream of charging them!
They would ( and often do) do things for me and wouldn't charge me, in a lot of cases, even their costs. Least I can do is repay the things they do for me
with what little I can do for them.
We dont make money off each other, it's not our way.

I shot my friends Nephews wedding earlier this year free of charge. It was his gift to them. He offered to pay, I wouldn't take a cent off him. He does so much for me and helps me in so many ways I wouldn't let him pay for a thing I could affford to give him and my wife would crack my skull if I ever tried. The thing is, he never expects me to pay for anything on his behalf but will spend his own money on me.

For acquaintances ( I'm fussy whom I call a friend) it would probably be something like an extra service I didn't charge my time for and maybe some discounted prints.

I don't have any family myself, it's all my wifes family and she isn't particularly close to any of them so with the exception of her brothers family, ( whom has also helped me out on infrequent occasion) I would look after them with some discounts as I felt like at the time and that would be about it.

I agree here......thumbthumb

zoomer

Family and full time friends, no charge.
Having said that, I resist mightily doing weddings for family members.....

Zet

Glort wrote: »

For aquatiences ( I'm fussy whom I call a friend)

That is a better word.

chrisjohnson

Basically I'm with Glort, but it is not always this simple.

A few years ago I did 2-3 days work for a friend who coached my boys in youth soccer and I refused any payment. He was very happy with the result. It probably saved him a few thousand Euros which he could easily have afforded to pay.

Now our relationship is spoiled. He feels patronized and thinks he owes me a big one that he cannot repay. If I had the chance to do this over again I would ask him for money at my normal rates. Likely we would still be good friends.

I think you have to look at the person in front of you when you make this decision - there are no standard formulas.

James Taylor

If I'm close to someone (friend or family, either one), I don't charge. Same with good folks whom I know can't really afford it. For in-betweens, I do half off. If someone insists on paying, I tell them I charge my clients so I can take care of my friends, I let them know it's a blessing to me to be have a small gift to give. Those free shoots earn me far more in business and life than if I tried to charge full price.

Glort

goldenballs wrote: »

I think you have to look at the person in front of you when you make this decision - there are no standard formulas.

I would say this is correct.

In most cases, I'm the one with debts of gratitude I cant repay to my friends for the things they have done for me over years we have known each other.
All I can do is to be very sure to let them know how much I appreciate it and what it means to me and do what I can for them.

A friend of mine owns a very successful one man business but sometimes he gets a big job that has to be done in a certain time frame and he needs help. He will ring me up and say " What are you doing xxx day? "
I always reply " I don't know, you haven't told me yet? Which I think he appreciates. Generally we go out and work like dogs which I'm happy for because I think "great, got to repay him a bit." The thing is, then he will turn around and do or get something for me for working for him so I'm back to square one.

I have told him the last couple of times, I don't want anything for this, I'm glad to do something for you for all you do for me and he says ok, but I know he already has something in mind to dismiss that request straight off.

I don't have a lot of real friends, but the 4 I have would give me a kidney without me asking and I'd do the same for them.

To have friends like that, firstly I consider my self Damned lucky and secondly, anything monetary is just utterly insignificant.

catspaw

easy. I don't. (aside from at-cost smugmug galleries for them)

then again, I have a very small circle of true friends and family.

chrisjohnson

richy wrote: »

I don't charge for family. I rarely charge for friends, or rather not for close friends. A wise person told me that more than 5 real true friends is too many. Maybe not entirely accurate for anyone but it works out for me! Just not enough time for any more.

5 real friends as a max? It sounds like your pal is a bit depressed and far from being wise. You don't really know who your real friends are until weird stuff happens and then, surprisingly, some true friends look the other way and acquaintances step up to fill the gaps. At least this is my life experience.

I don't know how old you are Richy. I am getting on a bit and my advice is to be generous about paying it forward. Make time!

Zet

goldenballs wrote: »

I am getting on a bit and my advice is to be generous about paying it forward. Make time!

Words to live by

StrobeNBurn

I'll gladly chime in on this one...
F u l l p r i c e ! ! !

Glort

goldenballs wrote: »

5 real friends as a max? It sounds like your pal is a bit depressed and far from being wise. You don't really know who your real friends are until weird stuff happens and then, surprisingly, some true friends look the other way and acquaintances step up to fill the gaps. At least this is my life experience.

I don't know how old you are Richy. I am getting on a bit and my advice is to be generous about paying it forward. Make time!

Well I think you are both Right!

I have 4 Close/ true friends and they have all always been there for me when I needed help and without me even asking. I guess in that regard I have already sorted the friends from aquatiences in that some aquatiences have become close friends. I'm very lucky however in that I have never had a close friend turn their back on me.

My oldest friend I met in school 30 years ago and I sometimes don't talk to him for months at a time. We have our lives and sometimes we get caught up in them. The thing that has amazed me too many times over the years is when I need him most, he appears out of the blue without me ringing him as if he has mental telapathy or something. It's uncanny.
And then when I do need help, he never leaves my side till things are good again and then we may not see or talk again for months but then we will live in each others pocket for a while.
In 30 years we have never had a harsh word or an argument.

I'm sure everyone can use as many friends as they can get but that said, I'm not interested in getting anymore friends because as soppy as it sounds ( and believe me, I am not a touchy feely kind of bloke) but I love my friends I have and they give me all the support I need in life as well as being the family I don't have.

I always say to people, i don't have a lot of friends but if I rang any of the ones I have and asked for a kidney, the reply would be " What hospital do I go to and when?" and I would do the same for them. What more do you need than that?
I suppose the only concern I have with my friends is trying to work out how the hell I am ever going to repay them for all they have done and continue to do for me and making sure they know how much I apprecite them.

There are few days go by where I don't take a moment to give thanks for the friends I have usually because there are few days when I'm not reminded by what they do for me, just how lucky I am in that regard.

So for me, charging them for any work I do for them is a thought that would never cross my mind and in fact something I would welcome in any chance I got to pay them back for some of the endless things they have done for me.

sara505

It depends on the job. For weddings and full-on family shoots, I have a special friend/family rate that is hugely reduced from my normal fees. The people to whom I offer the discount are usually 1. honored to be among the elect; 2. glad to support me.

In my experience most people want to pay something. It makes them feel good and maintains the dignity of both parties. Many people are uncomfortable about taking my services for nothing, and paying a small honorarium gives them the license to call and ask me again. Money, like fences, makes for good relations, I find.

That being said, there are many (many) things I do for many (many) folks and organizations, for absolutely nothing.

sara505

richy wrote: »

Interesting points Sara . I wonder if the definition of friend isn't coming in to play here. If you had a close friend who was a master baker, you'd expect to pay her the same token fee for making a cake for you to give someone, but perhaps you'd help each other move house for free? So its more of a tip of the hat to the professional aspect ? Are there any exclusions to the friend family fee, like say a parent or sibling vs your 5th cousin? If I had a friend or family member who was a bit low on funds and I asked them to help me in a way which would cost them then yes I would pay them for sure. However shooting a wedding costs you in possibly not shooting another booking and some product. Whilst we aren't exactly hedge fund managers I don't mind taking that hit and assuming my close friends / family don't try and outdo Henry VIII its unlikely to starve me. I would find it exceptionally hard to take money from my parents, I did for 16 years, they deserve some payback lol Perhaps as well it may be a country / cultural thing? Tipping is everywhere in the states and much rarer in Europe (outside asian restaurants with cover charges, gratuities and tips all at once), I feel really awkward when offered a tip, especially from a paying client. Theres even some unwritten code about how much ($3 a suitcase, $5 a golf bag, $50 for an officiant, $25 a musician, 15% for ok service and 20% for great service with a meal).Not in any way judging, its just interesting how people differ nowt as queer as folk as they say lol. I might charge a distant relative or acquaintance cost, but immediate family and close friends I would not. However, I totally respect others choice to do otherwise, just a little curious if its down to definitions and why people do it.Glort - sounds very much like my experiences with close friends. There aren't millions of them but by know I do know who they are I have plenty more people I enjoy spending time with, but on the kidney test theres never going to be too many people who pass that as you dont have enough time in your life to get that close to all that many people, short of winning the lotto but that clouds peoples motives. Once you have the bond it survives alot, but once you have a family and 2 jobs there isnt much time left over lol.One friend and I have helped each other move house around the country countless times, sometimes during the work week & going without sleep for 48 hours whilst singing really terrible whitesnake songs in a transit van at 3am. I even dont mine carrying a piano upstairs on my own. It's just how it is with certain friends as you say. We long ago decided never to keep track or count, just to always say yes and bugger the tally.

Yes, I would expect to pay a friend for a service that he or she is in business to provide, wouldn't dream of asking for a freebie.

My immediate family - my children and their growing families - no, never would dream of charging a penny. Ever. And I take a ton of photos of/for them, including full-monty weddings and family sessions.

I always have a camera with me and take a ton of random photos about town for lots of people and organizations and am generous and giving - probably too much so - but if a friend, cousin, or in-law specifically asks me to do a job such as a wedding or family session, something that they know I do for a living, yes, I do charge a fee, but, as mentioned, it is a reduced fee, and I let them know this.

But every situation is different. I also give discounts for islanders (on the Vineyard, a popular wedding destination, so the prices are inflated - but the islanders are not rich; a nod to the fact that I am also a native islander, taking care of my own), and I take care of people who truly need help, the occasional bride who says, "This is really all I can afford."

Yeah, money is a funny thing. In a couple of cases where I gave - for free - my photography services to friends, the friendships suffered. Something changed in the dynamic, some kind of uncomfortable power shift that hasn't been resolved to this day.

That's why I say, money sometimes creates a healthy boundary and dignifies both parties.

edited to add: and yes, I do have an inner circle, maybe five people (not like some people's 1,000 FB "friends") for whom I would do anything - for free - and who would do anything for me. Anything.

StrobeNBurn

I was just tryin to stir the pot up a lil bit! I had a similar situation to "goldenballs" in his first post however I did ask for payment (under a 100) because the photos were going to be used as promotion for several more events. There was a look of suprise and uncertainty and a strange silence lingered but my smile remained! My services were no longer needed and that was just fine by me. Aunt Sally can screw it up w her new camera that she doesn't understand but had to buy cause it was on sale at amazon. Obviously it's going to depend on the personal relationship and situation but I think every job should be compensated. We're the ones working behind the lens (that pricey lens) to best capture and improve on their special moments. Then we get to relive it a hundred times in lightroom making everything perfect for them. "No, i didn't get a piece of cake, was it good?" Wanna see me get a job done quickly and correctly and not bitch about missing out on cake? Show me the money!!! I'm not trying to sound bitter but these exact situations are the reason I signed up for smugmug. I was running circles sometimes trying to get prints to friends and family and it was costing me more of my own time and money than it was worth. Uncle Ted wants an 8x10 huh? Well, Aunt Sally can click the buy button on my site just as well as she does when she buys all that useless crap on amazon. I give out free photos only on two occasions now, Christmas and your birthday. That rule and the help of smugmug has saved my sanity. *Grandmothers however do not apply to this rule and whatever they say goes.

sara505

StrobeNBurn wrote: »

I was just tryin to stir the pot up a lil bit! I had a similar situation to "goldenballs" in his first post however I did ask for payment (under a 100) because the photos were going to be used as promotion for several more events. There was a look of suprise and uncertainty and a strange silence lingered but my smile remained! My services were no longer needed and that was just fine by me. Aunt Sally can screw it up w her new camera that she doesn't understand but had to buy cause it was on sale at amazon. Obviously it's going to depend on the personal relationship and situation but I think every job should be compensated. We're the ones working behind the lens (that pricey lens) to best capture and improve on their special moments. Then we get to relive it a hundred times in lightroom making everything perfect for them. "No, i didn't get a piece of cake, was it good?" Wanna see me get a job done quickly and correctly and not bitch about missing out on cake? Show me the money!!! I'm not trying to sound bitter but these exact situations are the reason I signed up for smugmug. I was running circles sometimes trying to get prints to friends and family and it was costing me more of my own time and money than it was worth. Uncle Ted wants an 8x10 huh? Well, Aunt Sally can click the buy button on my site just as well as she does when she buys all that useless crap on amazon. I give out free photos only on two occasions now, Christmas and your birthday. That rule and the help of smugmug has saved my sanity. *Grandmothers however do not apply to this rule and whatever they say goes.

rofl

(and thank you for confirming - on the eve of my third grandchild's birth - 3 babies in less than two years :-) :-) :-)- what I've been saying all along, "With each baby comes the hope that there will be one more person on my side.")

StrobeNBurn

People will tell you that they cannot afford your services for one job but take a look at all the services that they subscribe their entire lives to. Fancy phones w unlimited data plans, a million tv channels and streaming internet. Netflix, the gym, whatever it is, they're paying full price for that service and there's always an excuse for why they can't live without it. I've found that the people who don't want to pay for service are already wasting too much money in one or more of these areas. So I cut them off...just like ATT.

Zet

StrobeNBurn wrote: »

People will tell you that they cannot afford your services for one job but take a look at all the services that they subscribe their entire lives to. Fancy phones w unlimited data plans, a million tv channels and streaming internet. Netflix, the gym, whatever it is, they're paying full price for that service and there's always an excuse for why they can't live without it. I've found that the people who don't want to pay for service are already wasting too much money in one or more of these areas. So I cut them off...just like ATT.

Love it! You are soooo right too! If they think my prices are too high then they can find another photographer!

MammaPaparazza

Zet wrote: »

Just wondering how you handel photographing requests from your friends and family. How do you charge them? Free? Just cost of prints? 50% off, make them pay like all your other clients?

Siblings?
Cousins?
Close friends (like childhood friend, best buddy since high school)
Aquatiences (like from your child's school or church etc.)

I make them take my kids so I can go out for a few hours...in exchange for all the photos they want...lmao

FedererPhoto

Depends on what it is and how close of friend they are.

A lifelone friend who was my best man in my wedding -- he can get his kids baby shots done at my studio for free.

A tangential friend who I've only met a half-a-dozen times in my life -- they might get 1k off their wedding coverage rates.

A person that was an usher in my own wedding and I'd otherwise be an usher in theirs - they might get a much larger discount - leaving me with my expenses covered and no profit.

Overall you need to decide what it means to you to do the work for them; pick something, be comfortable with it. I'd never give a likely-not-even-invited-otherwise friend a 7k wedding present -- so it makes no sense to shoot that wedding (7k value) for free either. If I did that, I'd feel used... not to mention, combined with lost opportunity costs I'd not be able to pay the mortgage.

At the same time, I'd probably help them move if asked, so I'd be more than happy to donate 4-8 hours of 'work' for them (remember to factor in all your time... not just shooting time).