>>> vote for challenge 16 winner <<<

Andy

please vote here. there were 21 entrants. the 10 finalists were chosen by andy and shay independently. interestingly, we matched up on 8. we each picked one more.

the poll will be open for 48 hours.

ondrovic, unicoi state park

from andy: i really love the flowing water here, and the soft light adds to the element of serenity here.

From Shay:
I really like this photo. The light plays a key roll here. The water provides the backdrop to it. From highlight to shadow, this really speaks to quality of light. Well done.



ginger, summer storm

from andy: ginger, this is a fantastic wide angle shot. i really like the soft pastel colors, the drama of the sky, and the scene itself. i think the only improvement that could be made here is a raw exposure, that would possibly allow for more detail in the foreground while still maintaining the proper exposure for the rest of the scene. congrats on a beautiful image.

From Shay:
Almost looks like a pastel painting, soft sky features and dense shadow make this appealing. This photo is all about the light.





lynnsite, sand bath terminus with gnats

from andy: easy to see why folks like this one. it's got action, great light, and a beautiful subject. the bw adds drama imo. great job!

From Shay:
Very dramatic rim lighting, and lens flare contribute to the feeling of action.



seemoon, phalaenopsis

from andy: backlit isn't easy (i'm sure we'll have a challenge on this in the future!) and you did a great job here. lovely flower portrait.

From Shay:
A high key photo is usually all about the light. And that is the case here. I like the translucent look to the petals too.




bryan, row boat

from andy: a great still life. the soft pastel-y light on the water is magic. i love the word "soul" it makes me think as i view the photo. well done, congrats!

From Shay:
The reflections and the mix of the hard and soft light from the sun and sky are a pleasing combination. Good composition too.



greaper, celebrating with a bang

from andy: one of the all-time best fireworks shots i've seen. why? becuase the bursts are in context with a scene, and a beautiful scene. the lighting, so colofrul and pervasive throughout, is a key player here, as much as the blast itself.

From Shay:
Nearly monochromatic, an interesting mix of soft light and sharp light streaks. Light dominates this photo in a very interesting way. Well done.



wxwax, water girl

from andy: sid - this is so beautiful, i can easily see this hanging on my wall. i'm a big fan of this style and you've made a wonderful photograph here. the lighting, making here almost a silhouette, and glistening off the water drops are key elements for me.

From Shay:
Hard back lighting, extra dense shadow, and glistening highlights in the background make for one beautiful photo. This screams light even though it is largely shadow. Great job!



lynnma, the stairs

from andy: i want to go up these stairs, towards that window, and find out where the luscious light is coming from. that says it all.

From Shay:
I like this as it shows the light source (the window). It is very moody. The window and the lighting on the stairs don't visually sync up for me, but it is a pleasing photo.



sandy, catch a wave

from andy: pervasive quality of light here, it's in every wavelet. nice. and the composition of the subject vis-a-vis the scene is perfect.

From Shay:
I like the monochromatic color and the way the hard light brings out the texture of the water. Great composition too.



gubbs, solitude

from andy: gubby, i love your work, and this is a classic street shot imo. lovely filtered sunlight adding a yin/yang look to this image.

From Shay:
I like the shadow play with the tree and sidewalk. The upper half of the shot is too contrasty for me to speak to quality of light though.

dkapp

These were some great entries. It's going to make voting close.

Good Luck!
Dave

DoctorIt

topic was quality of light, right? I hope so... just thought of that, AFTER I voted. Great entries, it was a hard pick - still can't imagine what the mods go through to pick the finalists - thanks again guys!!

tmlphoto

Wow. Great work everyone. All of the finialists are great pictures. Tough choice. All are winners IMHO.

Stan

Only missing waiting for breakfast and woke up in a fog, I had those two on the short list, gotta draw the line somewhere Excellent standard of entry, I congratulate all who were bold enough to enter. Good luck all......

ginger_55

Too many good ones, can't vote, smile.
I can't choose, and that is leaving mine out. I knew I would vote for one or the other of two, but one of them wasn't in the ten, so it should be easy, right?

No, now there is another, and that is not including mine at all. I am sooooooo
stuck. And I am thinking, it is QOL and so many are QOL. I will say, just thought of it, this quandary I am having not only shows that there is some very good photography, but also that the judges chose well.

I wonder if they were as conflicted as I feel.

ginger

gubbs

I'm not begging yet but 1 would be nice (even a sympathetic vote, would do!)

ondrovic

Sympathy Vote
Done!

gubbs wrote:

I'm not begging yet but 1 would be nice (even a sympathetic vote, would do!)

gubbs

ondrovic wrote:

Done!

I thought you were joking!!

DJ-S1

gubbs wrote:

I'm not begging yet but 1 would be nice (even a sympathetic vote, would do!)

FWIW, I was showing an artist friend of mine the finalists and she said she would have voted for yours. So there's another one for ya', even if it is unofficial!

ondrovic

Never joke...
I never joke...

gubbs wrote:

I thought you were joking!!

snapapple

Gubbs, you got my vote

gubbs wrote:

I'm not begging yet but 1 would be nice (even a sympathetic vote, would do!)

After studying the entries, I feel that yours demonstrates how the quality of the light creates the mood of the image. Yes, each one has a quality of light. It must to create an image. But how important is the quality of the light to the story that the image tells? Yours does it for me.

Stan

Please flame me if you like, I would appreciate it... now the voting is over, could someone explain the tecnical merit of Lynsite's photo. I was bothered by the darkness in the top left and the lens flare. This was however a stunning photo which I would be delighted to have hanging on my wall, I would just like to know the technical imperfections

Ps Bryan's boat was a stunning picture thanks

wxwax

Stan, I think the lens flare adds something to the composition. I think you'd have a big hole there otherwise. The only reservation I have is about the dark hole to the top right. It makes it feel like there's too much room on the right side of the shot.

But that's carping. I really like the quality of the light on the horse, and also the insects, the dust and the pose. Perhaps what are sometimes imperfections, are at other times, enhancements?

Stan

wxwax wrote:

Stan, I think the lens flare adds something to the composition. I think you'd have a big hole there otherwise. The only reservation I have is about the dark hole to the top right. It makes it feel like there's too much room on the right side of the shot.

But that's carping. I really like the quality of the light on the horse, and also the insects, the dust and the pose. Perhaps what are sometimes imperfections, are at other times, enhancements?

Thank you, I was hoping either you or Andy might reply, I was not criticising the shot, just interested in the technical details of why it was such a good shot and if the flare would detract from its technical merit

Seamaiden

I'm officially protesting. How can we be expected to pick JUST ONE????

Bryan

Seamaiden wrote:

I'm officially protesting. How can we be expected to pick JUST ONE????

Do we change it to a weighted vote... 3 points for 1st, 2 for 2nd, 1 for 3rd?

I just want to thank everyone for the kinds words of encouragement and complement everyone on the great shots this round. It seems I took my reflection shot a week too soon. :-)

ginger_55

Strong Entries bring strong feelings...........
Ok, I feel like making trouble, took a nap, miss everyone here, so check it out all the time.

And here I am. I found it darn near impossible to vote for one out of that ten, and that excluded mine which I was a bit fond of, too. I was torn, to be honest, between Gubbs and Lynnsite.

There wasn't one, except perhaps Bryan's premature reflection that I wouldn't have voted for that I can remember. Perhaps the water shot over the rocks, I had trouble with the fact that I had a gazillion of those shots back in my traveling and Nikon days. Plus the quality of light.

And that is just my opinion. Art is subjective. I assume we call this art. Not something that can be judged objectively and held up to scrutiny.

I was dismayed that Gubbs did not win, to say the least of the lack of votes. If Lynnesite had lost I would have been dismayed.

I thought that Challenge has particularly strong entries, I think that, though the judges mostly concurred, that it was very hard to judge.

I do like the idea of a photograph a week, or photograph gallery of the week, revolving (hehe, would like to have a photo in it myself, and I know there are better ones out there). But why don't you all put your energies into developing that, rather than ranting about a past loss.............unfair, yes, many were, there were good entires. I voted for Lynnsite, but I know I was not the only one. I was totally torn between her and Gubbs, I have communicated that, but I could not see the votes until I voted.

Are people on vacation? Or are they discouraged or angry? I miss some of the people I know who are not being active yet this time.
I would think about the feelings of all the artists involved here, including Andy who is devoting his time to our "games".

ginger

making trouble again, call Sid!

wxwax

Winning's nice, but even nicer is having the chance to make a nice photo and display it. IMHO, no need to really care too much about who wins. Personally, I really like Sandy's shot, and Greaps didn't get a lot of votes either.

But ya know what? No biggie. It's all for fun.

Andy

if there's a mathemetician in the house? or a geek'll do...

ginger_55 wrote:

Ok, I feel like making trouble, took a nap, miss everyone here, so check it out all the time.

And here I am. I found it darn near impossible to vote for one out of that ten, and that excluded mine which I was a bit fond of, too. I was torn, to be honest, between Gubbs and Lynnsite.

There wasn't one, except perhaps Bryan's premature reflection that I wouldn't have voted for that I can remember. Perhaps the water shot over the rocks, I had trouble with the fact that I had a gazillion of those shots back in my traveling and Nikon days. Plus the quality of light.

And that is just my opinion. Art is subjective. I assume we call this art. Not something that can be judged objectively and held up to scrutiny.

I was dismayed that Gubbs did not win, to say the least of the lack of votes. If Lynnesite had lost I would have been dismayed.

I thought that Challenge has particularly strong entries, I think that, though the judges mostly concurred, that it was very hard to judge.

I do like the idea of a photograph a week, or photograph gallery of the week, revolving (hehe, would like to have a photo in it myself, and I know there are better ones out there). But why don't you all put your energies into developing that, rather than ranting about a past loss.............unfair, yes, many were, there were good entires. I voted for Lynnsite, but I know I was not the only one. I was totally torn between her and Gubbs, I have communicated that, but I could not see the votes until I voted.

Are people on vacation? Or are they discouraged or angry? I miss some of the people I know who are not being active yet this time.
I would think about the feelings of all the artists involved here, including Andy who is devoting his time to our "games".

ginger

making trouble again, call Sid!

dgrin allows for multiple votes, but they can't be weighted. so, we could allow more than one vote per person, say up to two or three... would that help or hurt? also, i think things will improve when there are more voters. we have ~700 members on dgrin and only 30 or so votes. need to increase the number of voters...

i'm not willing to do anything that uses another system, or anything manual.

oh also - would it help if we only had five finalists?

Stan

andy wrote:

oh also - would it help if we only had five finalists?

No because as we saw in the last challenge, the variety and quality of the shots would make it far too narrrow to restrict the voting to a more restricted short list. The accolade of even being on the short list is pretty good in itself, votes or no votes

andy wrote:

dgrin allows for multiple votes, but they can't be weighted. so, we could allow more than one vote per person, say up to two or three... would that help or hurt?

Only if you believe proportional representation is better than first past the post :thwak

snapapple

I don't think we should change it...

andy wrote:

dgrin allows for multiple votes, but they can't be weighted. so, we could allow more than one vote per person, say up to two or three... would that help or hurt? also, i think things will improve when there are more voters. we have ~700 members on dgrin and only 30 or so votes. need to increase the number of voters...

i'm not willing to do anything that uses another system, or anything manual.

oh also - would it help if we only had five finalists?

I think we should keep it at one vote. More than one would just split the votes. But, if not weighted, it won't help. Sometimes even a weighted vote gives a skewed final vote. Like if one entry gets a lot second or third places, they could even up in first place.

I think you've got the answer. We need to get more voters. Maybe you could send out an email to all members at voting time. Maybe some people just don't want to spend the time that a lot us do. Maybe they don't have time to keep up with the deadlines and stuff. If reminded, they could just look in at the appropriate time and vote. They would probably enjoy seeing the finalists, but would have trouble keeping up with the deadlines if they don't spend a lot of time with the site. Just a thought. It might be to difficult to implement. I figure it has to be some kind of automatic thing (the email). I get emails from Shutterfly all the time. It's automatic. It works. It reminds me to do what I have been intending to do. Where are these 700 people? We need to wake them up.

wxwax

Guys, this is much ado about nothing. Let it go.

As the site grows, so too will the numbers of participants and voters. Who cares if not many people vote now? Who cares who wins? I don't see good things coming out of a fixation on voting schemes, number of finalists and number of voters.

We're here to have fun and learn how to shoot better, while enjoying each other's company. Let's not spoil that, OK?

GREAPER

wxwax wrote:

Guys, this is much ado about nothing. Let it go.

As the site grows, so too will the numbers of participants and voters. Who cares if not many people vote now? Who cares who wins? I don't see good things coming out of a fixation on voting schemes, number of finalists and number of voters.

We're here to have fun and learn how to shoot better, while enjoying each other's company. Let's not spoil that, OK?

Here Here!

The whole point (I thought) of the challanges from the start was to encourage active shooting with an eye towards quality and improvement.

I am the president of my local Photo Club and one of the directors of our monthly contest as well as one of the organizers of our BIG annual contest. I know that when people get hung up on winning they are on a road towards bad feelings. If you have an image you think is good enough to enter, you have already won. The accolades of your peers are nice, but in the end, the critic you need to please is yourself.

If a contest is being decided by a judge or a popular vote doesn't matter. Either way, the background, opinions and tastes of the judge(s) are going to decide the winner, and you may not think of it but those tastes and opinions change from day to day even with the same people.

Bottom line, Andy puts a lot of time and effort into this. He does his best to make it fair. The current system is as fair as any you are likely to find. Dont take any of this too seriously. It's an exercise. Use it to improve.

If you get to the point where the outcome of these challanges matter enough to make you sad or angry, maybe you need to step back and give it some thought.

I too had a hard time voting in the last challange. There were so many interesting shots, it was hard to choose. Reducing the number of finalists would only elliminate more of your choices at the end and put more weight on the opinion of the person/persons choosing the finalists.

I say stick with the current system, relax, have fun, take pictures, learn.

Andy

wax & greaps
you both are right, and thanks for the words.

it is about stretching, growing, & learning. and the challenges get you motivated every 10 days or so for something new!

cmr164

andy wrote:

you both are right, and thanks for the words.

it is about stretching, growing, & learning. and the challenges get you motivated every 10 days or so for something new!

Along those lines, I'd like to see choices with more specificity than we have been selecting lately. The way that we vote on challenge topics pretty much ensures that we will select QoL type topics over more restricting topics like flowerpots. But the constraints of the more restrictive topic will help us stretch and grow.

wxwax

GREAPER wrote:

I know that when people get hung up on winning they are on a road towards bad feelings. If you have an image you think is good enough to enter, you have already won. The accolades of your peers are nice, but in the end, the critic you need to please is yourself....

Bottom line, Andy puts a lot of time and effort into this. He does his best to make it fair. The current system is as fair as any you are likely to find. Dont take any of this too seriously. It's an exercise. Use it to improve....

If you get to the point where the outcome of these challanges matter enough to make you sad or angry, maybe you need to step back and give it some thought....

I say stick with the current system, relax, have fun, take pictures, learn.

Very well said, Greaps. And Andy, I agree completely about the time and effort you've put into this - it's truly remarkable, and I worry it's too much to be sustained. Thanks for your hard work and time. And most especially thanks for listening to the feedback.

wxwax

Thanks for posting the comments, Andy and Shay. As usual, it's an education to read what goes through your minds when you evaluate a photo. You're right, the fireworks shot is a peach. And I love to read Shay's note about the soft light contrasting with the harsh light. Great suff, thanks.

DoctorIt

Rock the vote!!!
Many things well said, gentlemen. I'll add again, this is for fun, and to give your bi-weekly photography a little direction. Don't sweat the small stuff.

On the other hand, I would like to stress the one point I picked out of this recent discussion: 700 members and 30 votes! That is our key - we have barely more people voting than submitters. Come on y'all out there, vote!!!