Manual Focus Issues

iteach6giteach6g Registered Users Posts: 26 Big grins
edited April 30, 2011 in People
I am practicing focusing using manual focus and I seem to be having trouble getting sharp close ups. I'm not sure if it has to do with my newer lens (switched from using the lens that came with my old film rebel to a digital lens with stabilizer). It seems I can only focus when further out from the subject. As you can see a very small part of this baby's face is in focus. I've read up on F-stops but still seem to be hit or miss when it comes to picking the right setting to get that clean shot. Any advice? Thank you--Shannon

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Comments

  • DcMoody23DcMoody23 Registered Users Posts: 70 Big grins
    edited April 29, 2011
    The camera just can't focus on an object that is too close, even a macro lens. Chances are that the shots you're comparing your own to have been cropped - they focus the shot from a distance and then crop it to get the real shot thy wanted. There are also macro tubes, which are literally just a hole that separate your camera from your lens - this will allow you to focus closer.

    And in the case that I'm totally misinterpreting your question, the other possible answer is that when you shoot with a low f-stop, like f/2.8, it'll blur anything that isn't on the same vertical plane (blurring more with the more distance from subject), so try bumping up to like f/8(?)
  • lanaerlanaer Registered Users Posts: 78 Big grins
    edited April 30, 2011
    Also, SLRs generally cannot perfectly focus, since that would require the mirror, sensor, AF sensors, and viewfinder to be perfectly aligned with each other. This article describes the problem somewhat (in the context a review of a tool that will let you test just how out of alignment your camera & lens are).

    Unfortunately, if that *is* the problem, a quick googling indicates that the Canon Rebel XTi doesn't allow you to micro-adjust the focus, which would help mitigate that issue.

    Still, it may be worthwhile to test your camera & lens by shooting a ruler. Focus on a given line on the ruler, with the ruler slanted away from the camera, then you can see if the focus plane seems to be in front of or behind that line. Be sure not to use focus-recompose for this; use a tripod.

    Other than that... yeah, keep in mind that the closer you are to your subject, the shallower the depth of field. For this shot, you had the focal length at 36mm and aperture at f/5. At 10 inches from your subject (which is close to the minimum focus distance of your lens), your depth of field is only 0.32 inches (used dofmaster.com for calculations). At f/8, you would get about half an inch, and at f/11 0.72 inches. So basically, when you're that close, only a very thin plane will be in focus, but the more you stop down, the more depth of field you'll have.
  • lanaerlanaer Registered Users Posts: 78 Big grins
    edited April 30, 2011
    Looking more closely at your image (as best I can at that resolution), it looks like the left eyebrow is more in focus than the left eye (and of course the right eye is simply out of focus). So I think your lens is sharp enough in its plane of focus, you just need to be very careful about placing it...
  • Bend The LightBend The Light Registered Users Posts: 1,887 Major grins
    edited April 30, 2011
    Another issue I had when using manual lenses was that my viewfinder was not right. The XTi (which I think I call a 400d) has a dim, small viewfinder. When focussing with AF it doesn't matter (you can nearly always trust that the camewra has focus when it says it has) but with manual you are depending on it, especially if the lens has no communication with the body to give autofocus. Do you have to adapt to fit the old lens? Does it give AF-confirmation? If not, you may have to do what I did. I had to adjust the dioptre on the side of the viewfinder (little wheel) to get it right for me (only a click, I think it was) - when I see it in focus, the lens sees it in focus, whereas it didn't before.
  • iteach6giteach6g Registered Users Posts: 26 Big grins
    edited April 30, 2011
    WOW! Thank you both! This image is cropped a little post shooting. I should have put the unedited one up--my mistake. This is all very interesting to me! I've been trying to figure this out for a while by reading up on it, analyzing past pics, and then trying again. I'm learning a lot from you guys. So SLRs are not good for this type of thing? What is? Any recommendations on cameras that do? I know that's probably a loaded question. :) I have a Rebel Xsi, but I took this with my father-in-laws camera when at his house. He does have an XTi--how did you know that? Anyway, what is the difference between the two? It also sounds like I may need to learn more about "placing" when shooting. I was struggling with trying to get a shot I wanted without the flashes making the baby blink or move before the shot was actually taken. I've figured out to turn off the redeye setting to help with that, but with his camera it still flickers a few times before shooting, which was an added frustration. I kind of figured out when taking these that I needed to focus by partially pushing down on the button, wait for the baby to get in a somewhat acceptable position, and then press all the way down to complete the shot. That way there was no flickering to startle her before the shot was complete. The only problem is that she could then be out of focus... It was a catch 22 situation. So when I use my creative settings I noticed that when on the Tv setting I can't mess with the F-stops and in the Av setting I can, but can't mess with the shutter speed. I also noticed that if I use a flash I can't go above a 1/200 shutter speed. Thank you again for taking the time to answer my dumb questions. The more I learn the "dumber I get" I guess! :) --Shannon<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
  • Bend The LightBend The Light Registered Users Posts: 1,887 Major grins
    edited April 30, 2011
    Let me just check...you focus by half-pressing the shutter, and then wait for the subject to move? That sound like a problem...:)

    The flickering flash is a set of flashes designed to brighten the scene to allow the autofocus to work. I switched mine off...you may need to check if it's a normal or a custom setting on the XSi. On the XTi it's a custom function, number 5, in the menu. It is useful in low light, however.

    So, with my XTi (400d) I acquire focus with a half press then as soon as I get the beep, or the little LED in the viewfinder, I complete the shot by fully pressing. If the subject is not ready, you can wait before fully pressing, but the camera is locked on to a focus point...if the final position of the subject is not ON that focus point, then it will be out of focus.

    The other "issue" I see is the use of Tv. This is fine, but you must understand that when in low light, this will give a low aperture number, i.e. a WIDE aperture. This makes the Depth of Field very small, so the distance between what is in focus (say a kids eye) and what is not in focus is very small.
    Wide aperture (low f number) means the eye may be in focus, the ears may not.
    Narrow aperture (higher f number) means that both the eyes and the ears, and probably the back of the head and so on will be in focus.

    But it's a trade off...If you use Av (which I do quite a bit) you control how much is in focus, but in low light, the camera has to slow the shutter down, and you can get camera shake blurring. In bright light, the shutter will speed up, but if it's too bright than it might not be fast enough for your chosen aperture and you overexpose the shot.

    Hope that helps a little.
  • iteach6giteach6g Registered Users Posts: 26 Big grins
    edited April 30, 2011
    Thanks "Bend the Light." You definitely know your stuff. I need to process the info you gave me (with my for dummies book-lol) and then reply. You made my brain hurt! :) This is very helpful! I know it sounds counterproductive with what you said in the first sentence. I was trying to figure out how to get a close up of the baby with her eyes open. Those first flashes always made her blink. What you said regarding that makes total sense. I think I better stick with my XSi since I know it a little better or at least have more experience with it. I just looked up the difference between the two--I had always thought his was an upgrade to mine and I guess it’s the other way around. :) So if SLRs are not good for this type of thing what do photographers use instead?
  • Bend The LightBend The Light Registered Users Posts: 1,887 Major grins
    edited April 30, 2011
    An SLR is perfect for this...I don't understand what you can't do.
    Take the usual lens, probably an 18-55mm, position yourself close to the subject and zoom to the appropriateplace to get the shot. If you can't get focus, it could be that you are too close...move back. If you can't get the close image you want then, you could crop the image in your editing program to the size you want.

    The issue is with the flash...position the subject near the window, perhaps, set the Aperture, in Av to something like f5.6, or f7.1, and see what you get without flash. The shutter speed MAY be slow, but anything from 1/100s will be ok to avoid too much shake...take the picture steady! Remember, if you can't get a decent speed from the shutter with the aperture at f5.6 or 7.1 then you could widen the aperture (lower f number) but you risk parts of the subject being unfocussed. This is ok, even desireable in some images, but in 99% of cases you need the focus on the eyes. You could also raise the ISO a little to get a better amount of light, raising the shutter speed for you. My 400d (XTi) is fine at ISO 100, and 200. Quite useable at 400, but not so good from 800 up...it gets "noisy", that is, the images have noise in them. I don't kow if the XSi is better with higher ISO than the 400d...possibly. It's a revised version, rather than much of an upgrade, I think.

    Hope that helps some more.
  • lanaerlanaer Registered Users Posts: 78 Big grins
    edited April 30, 2011
    It's not the SLRs aren't good for this, it's just that sometimes they need adjustments in order to focus more precisely. Neither the XSi nor the XTi give you the ability to do those adjustments yourself, but some other SLRs do. At the moment I'm not convinced that your camera focus *is* misaligned, so that might not even be an issue.

    That's why I recommended testing your manual focus up close on an object that doesn't move, with a tripod, so that you can be certain that there wasn't any motion between focusing and shutter release that was causing it. As is, it could very well just be a shallow depth of field (not much more than a quarter of an inch!) combined with slight motion.

    I knew what camera, lens, focal length, and f-stop you used because all of that data is stored in the image as part of its EXIF data.

    As Bend the Light mentioned, in dim situations cameras will use a flash or light to brighten the scene a bit to make it easier to autofocus. On my camera it's called an AF Assist Lamp, and it can be turned off, but I'm not sure what it would be called on yours.

    I've never used one of Canon's SLRs, so pay attention to Bend the Light's advice on those specifics ;)
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