first client complaining about the "women in lingerie" on my site

thenimirra

Yesterday I received my first complaint from a special event client who said she didn't feel comfortable giving her conference participants a link to my website because of the "women in lingerie" on my site. She asked if I could remove them for a little while. I told her that she had a private gallery link to her event that she could give to whomever she wished, but I can't stop people from leaving that link and going to other parts of the website.

Right now on my site, alter egos/boudoir is a gallery that you have to click into in order to access, and three fully clothed boudoir shots appear in my slideshow.

This has made me wonder if I need to separate my boudoir photography from my other offerings, including special events, portraits and weddings. I thought about setting up a new site, but I don't really have a ton of boudoir clients so it didn't make sense to pay for a new site without the steady clientele.

Can anyone suggest any other options? I also thought about taking down the gallery thumbnails and using a nav bar to stop random artistic nude photos from showing up on the gallery thumbnail.

My site is www.pictureyourworld.net

Thanks for your time

Sam

thenimirra,

I just took a look at your egos/boudoir section, and thought it was a great marketing idea!!!

Everything there is pretty tame yet interesting.

You can not account for everyone's tastes or values. If you think perusing this special events client is going to be profitable perhaps you could set up a separate website for them. Include this in your costs.

Business as in life you are always faced with choices. You will not be able to please everyone on the planet. Go with your gut.

Sam

zoomer

If you want to take off with doing weddings remove all boudoir from your site.
Use a different company name for a separate boudoir site.
It will turn a lot of people off.

Set up a site on Smugmug for boudoir, doesn't cost much.

Glort

I have been doing Glamour, figure and nude work for a long time and as much as me saying this will probably upset the politicaly correct, I'll bet money the woman who complained about this has personal hangups about herself and is likley overweight and feels unattractive and unhappy within herself.
I have seen this dozens of times and the people that complain about this type of work almost certainly are the ones that would never do it themselves and therefore threated by it.

There are also a lot of small minded people out there but i have also found this often stems from the same reason of them not being comfortable and happy with their own bodies.

With what I display, i put it to the " Grandmother test". I was raised by my grandmother and while she would go mad at me for using the mildest of swear words, she had no problem with nudity and the human body when it was shown in a decent and respectable way. I remember one year bringing home a couple of calendars that I was given from places I had been shopping at and my grandmother latched onto one that had a picture of a topless girl in the surf because the calendar section of it had big numbers and she could see it from the other side of the kitchen which is where she hung it.

Anything that my 80+yo grandmother would not be offended by is acceptable to me ( especially since she died 20 years ago) and those that have a problem with it just have a problem period.

By the same token, I have 3 different websites and do seperate all my glam work from everything else. I do a lot of kids sports so I am careful to keep that seperate having innuendo spread before from people that turned out to be proven weirdos themselves but I learned my lesson.

As for weddings, in my part of the world I disagree it puts potential clients off. i have booked more glam clients for their weddings than I can remember and more wedding clients for glam shots for themselves or the husband than not. to me the two go hand in hand very nicely because the target demographic is the same for both.

The last 3 or so bridal shows I went to I actually put up all glamour shots so I stood out from the other dozen vultures there and had one wedding album on the end of the table. Worked a treat and I did well from the shows and got 2 bites of the apple with the glam shoot and the wedding coverage.
May not work if your in the bible belt or something but sure works for me where I am.

In my experience here, the more strict a company or business is on things like sexual discrimination and frateniseing between employees, the more cavorting within the company that goes on, especially in the ranks of management where bed hopping can be rife.
The thing is though, because of this such companys often want to maintain a facade of disapproval and get overzealous in what they show and are seen to condone.

One of my sites is nothing more than an image repositry. I don't even have a front page on it yet so i can put gallerys in seperate areas and there are no links to anything else or indications of the other work I do. I can therefore put anything I want on the site for people to look at with out having to worry about offending clients from different areas of the work i do.

I also have a host that gives me 3 seperate domanis on the one account. I have 3 different domain names but apart from the minimal 2 yearly fee for them, the hosting is as cheap as a single site.

In this case I'd look at waht area of work was worth more to you and cater to that. if it's worth it put your boudiour stuff on another site which would probably bring you more work as a specialist site anyway or just remove the pics for a week till the client sees they are gone then put them back up.

Pupator

My opinion: I agree with zoomer. I clicked on your site and right next to the link/thumbnail for wedding galleries was a thumbnail of a woman sitting on a stool with her legs spread wide open. If I were looking for a wedding photographer you wouldn't have gotten a second thought.

Art Scott

I have taken the time to go to you website and click on portfolio and have yet to see any improper images on the click-able links below the slide show...set up this client with a private gallery with password and let it go from there....I see no reason to have to divide your site into different sites...you are a photographer and artist and those that are offended by your art you do not want to work with anyway.......maybe find away to not allow the "so called offensive images" to be used in the clickable links....maybe....

angevin1

thenimirra wrote: »

Yesterday I received my first complaint from a special event client who said she didn't feel comfortable giving her conference participants a link to my website because of the "women in lingerie" on my site. She asked if I could remove them for a little while. I told her that she had a private gallery link to her event that she could give to whomever she wished, but I can't stop people from leaving that link and going to other parts of the website.

Right now on my site, alter egos/boudoir is a gallery that you have to click into in order to access, and three fully clothed boudoir shots appear in my slideshow.

This has made me wonder if I need to separate my boudoir photography from my other offerings, including special events, portraits and weddings. I thought about setting up a new site, but I don't really have a ton of boudoir clients so it didn't make sense to pay for a new site without the steady clientele.

Can anyone suggest any other options? I also thought about taking down the gallery thumbnails and using a nav bar to stop random artistic nude photos from showing up on the gallery thumbnail.

My site is www.pictureyourworld.net

Thanks for your time

1. How do you feel about it?

2. I went to your website, and it appears to me, I can choose to click on whatever category I am interested in.

3. I don't see a problem.

4. It is a photography website. It should contain photography that you like and clients are interested in.
4b. Are you interested in attracting clients that think ill of boudoir/lingerie?

5. Ladies in lingerie are in all sorts of media. Many women actually wear it.

Pupator

4b. Are you interested in attracting clients that think ill of boudoir/lingerie?

I think that's the real issue here. Everything else is largely irrelevant. This is a business decision, not an artistic debate. A conversation about whether or not images you have are appropriate or inappropriate is barking up the wrong tree, if you ask me.

Here's a fact: there are some people in this world (think of them how you wish - I am one of them) who simply would not hire you to photograph an event (particularly a wedding) because those other images are on your site. It might be an irrational fear ("What would my grandmother think if she came to look at our wedding pictures and saw this?!??!?!") or it might be what they think is a principled decision ("I'd like a photographer whose values more closely align with my own") - but either way the end result is the same: you lose business.

That makes the question rather simple I think, and eliminates the need to consider the other factors raised in this thread:
are you willing to lose some customers because you don't want to put your lingerie/boudoir/egos pictures somewhere else?

It doesn't matter if people on DGrin agree with the client. The business decision is whether or not you want that client to be happy (and a good referral and repeat business) or do you want that client to go elsewhere in the future?

Sam

Pupator wrote: »

I think that's the real issue here. Everything else is largely irrelevant. This is a business decision, not an artistic debate. A conversation about whether or not images you have are appropriate or inappropriate is barking up the wrong tree, if you ask me.

Here's a fact: there are some people in this world (think of them how you wish - I am one of them) who simply would not hire you to photograph an event (particularly a wedding) because those other images are on your site. It might be an irrational fear ("What would my grandmother think if she came to look at our wedding pictures and saw this?!??!?!") or it might be what they think is a principled decision ("I'd like a photographer whose values more closely align with my own") - but either way the end result is the same: you lose business.

That makes the question rather simple I think, and eliminates the need to consider the other factors raised in this thread:
are you willing to lose some customers because you don't want to put your lingerie/boudoir/egos pictures somewhere else?

It doesn't matter if people on DGrin agree with the client. The business decision is whether or not you want that client to be happy (and a good referral and repeat business) or do you want that client to go elsewhere in the future?

Well said!

Sam

thenimirra

I appreciate your time and your comments. I'm still mulling this over because I only shoot a few weddings a year, and I would not be a good fit for a client like Pupator who would choose to look past my ability and talents because they are offended by a woman posing in lingerie. The weddings I have shot have all been with brides who wanted to gift their hubbies boudoir images, usually on their birthdays and anniversaries.

However, the bulk of my work is special events, and I will consider whether the boudoir may be limiting those type of clientele which I do want.

Sam

thenimirra wrote: »

I appreciate your time and your comments. I'm still mulling this over because I only shoot a few weddings a year, and I would not be a good fit for a client like Pupator who would choose to look past my ability and talents because they are offended by a woman posing in lingerie. The weddings I have shot have all been with brides who wanted to gift their hubbies boudoir images, usually on their birthdays and anniversaries.

However, the bulk of my work is special events, and I will consider whether the boudoir may be limiting those type of clientele which I do want.

I don't believe it's about looking past someones abilities. We all have our limits of acceptability. My level of acceptability seems to be more lenient than Pupator in this area. That doesn't mean ether of us is right or wrong.

We are speaking about a business decision not a judgment about you.

However our appearance, in person, writing, and online will garner an initial opinion from those encountering you or I for the first time. You are recieving invaluable insight into how others perceive you and your website.

Being defensive won't accomplish anything. You asked for opinions. You have them. Now it's up to you what you want to do with them.

Sam

mercphoto

thenimirra wrote: »

The weddings I have shot have all been with brides who wanted to gift their hubbies boudoir images, usually on their birthdays and anniversaries.

However, the bulk of my work is special events, and I will consider whether the boudoir may be limiting those type of clientele which I do want.

Two competing tugs on the rope there! You have a hard decision. It meshes well with your wedding work and clients, but maybe not so much with the special events crowd.

thenimirra

My comments were not meant to be defensive at all...nor more so defensive than Pupator's decision that he would not hire me to shoot his wedding because of the photos I had on my site. I agree that this is a business decision that I will have to make and I said I appreciated the comments.

thenimirra

mercphoto wrote: »

Two competing tugs on the rope there! You have a hard decision. It meshes well with your wedding work and clients, but maybe not so much with the special events crowd.

Yes, these are exactly the thoughts I was trying to get across in my response.

Pupator

Sam wrote: »

I don't believe it's about looking past someones abilities. We all have our limits of acceptability. My level of acceptability seems to be more lenient than Pupator in this area. That doesn't mean ether of us is right or wrong.

You're right Sam, it's not about that at all.

I would not be a good fit for a client like Pupator who would choose to look past my ability and talents because they are offended by a woman posing in lingerie.

I'm not offended by a woman posing in lingerie. Just ask my wife.
Me being offended isn't the issue. I wouldn't have hired you for my wedding because of the first response I gave ("What if my grandmother stumbles on this?") not the second so-called principled stand. You don't have to change your business practices because of people like me, though I'd encourage you to reconsider your response to my point.

My point is a business one - why run the risk of alienating ANY existing or potential customers over something that can be so easily avoided?

nor more so defensive than Pupator's decision that he would not hire me to shoot his wedding because of the photos I had on my site.

In what way is that defensive? (Also, in what way is it offensive? I thought it was simply a statement of fact.)

thenimirra

My point is a business one - why run the risk of alienating ANY existing or potential customers over something that can be so easily avoided? Yes, I agree with this, and that would be the reason why I would consider making some changes. Over the years, the bulk of my clientele has become special events, so much so that I've considered forgoing the portraiture side of my business and just specializing in special events. I think this issue is yet another factor to consider in deciding if this is what I want and should do to keep attracting special event clients.

Pupator

I think you've got your answer right there then. If it's the bigger part of your business - why not have a separate event site and another for weddings, portraits, and boudoir? That way you can keep the (somewhat) related businesses together and not worry about it interfering with your events clients?

It's not going to help you with people who wouldn't want to see boudoir shots when looking for their wedding gallery, but there's nothing wrong with just giving up on that market. That is especially true if you like to make the wedding/portrait clients aware that boudoir is an option.

angevin1

Pupator wrote: »

I think you've got your answer right there then. If it's the bigger part of your business - why not have a separate event site

2 votes for that idea! Though you mentioned expense, could well be worth it!

thenimirra

One of my colleagues said to show what you want to sell. Everything else just dilutes your brand.

WillCAD

Ask yourself two questions:

1) How much business (if any) will I lose by leaving the boudoir images on my main site?

2) How much business (if any) will I lose by moving the boudoir images to a separate site?

The decision will make itself once you answer those questions.

thenimirra

I considered everyone's suggestions and decided to make these changes until I can afford a professional redo of my site: I de-emphasized the boudoir/alter egos by making them just a basic gallery (one under weddings and other under portraits) instead of a featured category on my home page. Now those images just blend in with the rest of of my offerings while the majority of my work (special events) get's bigger billing. If my sales don't pick up in either boudoir or alter egos, or even weddings for that matter, I may drop them from the page altogether.

If you get a sec, please take another peek at the site and tell me if these changes work better. www.pictureyourworld.net

ColoradoSkier

Pretty sure I warned you about this after you put them on there. I still think that for the boudoir and alter ego stuff, you should set up a totally different domain/ website. This would give you better opportunity for organic SEO, and also allow you to reach two distinct markets more effectively, without worrying about one stepping on the other. You have such a diverse client base that you interact with, you don't want to alienate any of them - at least until one of them is bringing in crazy amounts of money and dominating your time.

Mark Dickinson

sad
I've had the same thing. The person said "you just lost 4 potential weddings from me and all of my friends for your disrespect for women... mine were half light black and white non nude... good luck. I just moved on

Mark Dickinson

ColoradoSkier wrote: »

Pretty sure I warned you about this after you put them on there. I still think that for the boudoir and alter ego stuff, you should set up a totally different domain/ website. This would give you better opportunity for organic SEO, and also allow you to reach two distinct markets more effectively, without worrying about one stepping on the other. You have such a diverse client base that you interact with, you don't want to alienate any of them - at least until one of them is bringing in crazy amounts of money and dominating your time.

Such a good Idea. I bought markdickinsonportraits.com to do that

kd2

I agree with those who said to put the alter ego and boudoir images on a separate site. Your high school senior clients will wander around your site, and they and their moms don't need to see the "steamy couples" and boudoir shots. Ditto for corporate clients you may hope to attract.

catspaw

If I'm not mistaken, you can have a hidden gallery that your 'regular' website cannot access, but have the new URL for those types of photos point at that hidden gallery. seems like two sites, but it's not like you have to have a separate smugmug account.

Tensina

Not offended
I just checked out the site and didn't see anything offensive? If you look at a package of Boudoir...iI would expect to see a body

thenimirra wrote: »

Yesterday I received my first complaint from a special event client who said she didn't feel comfortable giving her conference participants a link to my website because of the "women in lingerie" on my site. She asked if I could remove them for a little while. I told her that she had a private gallery link to her event that she could give to whomever she wished, but I can't stop people from leaving that link and going to other parts of the website.

Right now on my site, alter egos/boudoir is a gallery that you have to click into in order to access, and three fully clothed boudoir shots appear in my slideshow.

This has made me wonder if I need to separate my boudoir photography from my other offerings, including special events, portraits and weddings. I thought about setting up a new site, but I don't really have a ton of boudoir clients so it didn't make sense to pay for a new site without the steady clientele.

Can anyone suggest any other options? I also thought about taking down the gallery thumbnails and using a nav bar to stop random artistic nude photos from showing up on the gallery thumbnail.

My site is www.pictureyourworld.net

Thanks for your time

thenimirra

catspaw wrote: »

If I'm not mistaken, you can have a hidden gallery that your 'regular' website cannot access, but have the new URL for those types of photos point at that hidden gallery. seems like two sites, but it's not like you have to have a separate smugmug account.

That's a great idea. I will try that.