Entering keywords to blank keywords field, must save twice before they show up

WinsomeWorks

Since Thursday evening, something odd is happening every time I add keywords to a photo that has none yet. If a photo already has keywords & I add some, I save keywords & it's fine. But if a photo has no keywords at all, I click "Add" to add some. I hit "Save" and see the "Saving Keywords" bit in the upper left corner of the page. But when it finishes, the keywords are invisible.... not even just indexing, but actually invisible. However, if I click "Add" (which is what still shows instead of the usual "Edit"), now I see them. (but they don't say "indexing") I hit "Save" again & this second time they always save. They still do not say "indexing", but they have evidently indexed, because I search for them later & they show up.

I have not tried the bulk caption/keyword tool lately-- this is only the individual tool I'm speaking of. I've tried it across a wide range of categories & sub-categories, and no matter what, it's always the same: if keywords already present, "Save" works on the first time. If not, it doesn't. I'm on FF with Vista. Haven't tried another browser. I'll be out most of the next couple days, so that's all I can offer for the time being. At least it's not a big deal; the keywords just need to be Edited & Saved twice. Good luck finding the bug!

Andy

Hm, I cannot reproduce, does it happen reliably, everytime for you? What Gallery?

WinsomeWorks

Andy wrote: »

Hm, I cannot reproduce....

Andy, yes, every single time, any gallery, however: remember I said it only happens when the photo had no keywords to begin with?? It appears you added keywords to a photo that already had some. That's not been a problem. Only photos with no keywords.... try to add them. It takes 2 tries for me.

Andy

k thanks will see what I can do!

Allen

I added keywords under a main photo and after hitting save > 5 times it will
not save. Clicking edit shows the KW's in the edit box each time.

Edit: eventually after many page refreshes they show.

WinsomeWorks

Is this being fixed? This is a real problem- I wasted time on it today by having to hit "Save" not just twice, but 4 to 7 times before manually entered keywords on a previously un-keyworded photo would show up. Not seeing any response before Allen's last post just made me think I should bump it again.

WinsomeWorks

This is still happening. Manually enter keywords to a previously blank keyword field, and you need to hit "save" any number of times before they will actually show up or show "indexing". They're evidently there, just not showing... rather disconcerting, especially if you don't know about the bug or forgot it was a bug. Looks like it's been happening since at least May. Anyone looking into it?

Allen

WinsomeWorks wrote: »

This is still happening. Manually enter keywords to a previously blank keyword field, and you need to hit "save" any number of times before they will actually show up or show "indexing". They're evidently there, just not showing... rather disconcerting, especially if you don't know about the bug or forgot it was a bug. Looks like it's been happening since at least May. Anyone looking into it?

Refresh the page instead.

Andy

The keyword is being logged and indexed, but it just takes a little bit for them to show up after you hit save. Try this, go to a photo with no keywords. ADD one keyword, hit save. Go do something else for a few minutes, and then refresh the page on that photo.

WinsomeWorks

Andy wrote: »

The keyword is being logged and indexed, but it just takes a little bit for them to show up after you hit save. Try this, go to a photo with no keywords. ADD one keyword, hit save. Go do something else for a few minutes, and then refresh the page on that photo.

Well... yeah, I know. It's as I said, they're there. But you have to either refresh or hit save. It's not the normal old "indexing" thing that everyone's used to, & it's not that I don't know what to do. I'm just sayin'... if people don't know about this, they don't know what's going on. It's a bug & I just wondered if it's slated to be fixed anytime soon. BTW, Andy-- Welcome back, errrr.... to the fray, haha! Hope you had a grand time & can't wait to see the photos! I drooled when I heard about your whereabouts.

Andy

WinsomeWorks wrote: »

BTW, Andy-- Welcome back, errrr.... to the fray, haha! Hope you had a grand time & can't wait to see the photos! I drooled when I heard about your whereabouts.

Thanks - I have 4K of images culled from about 10K, now have to cull those 4K down to something manageable like a couple hundred. Was planning on this weekend but was reminded that we have a wedding to travel to...

rainforest1155

WinsomeWorks wrote: »

Well... yeah, I know. It's as I said, they're there. But you have to either refresh or hit save. It's not the normal old "indexing" thing that everyone's used to, & it's not that I don't know what to do. I'm just sayin'... if people don't know about this, they don't know what's going on. It's a bug & I just wondered if it's slated to be fixed anytime soon. BTW, Andy-- Welcome back, errrr.... to the fray, haha! Hope you had a grand time & can't wait to see the photos! I drooled when I heard about your whereabouts.

There's no need for you to refresh or resave. The keywords are added the first time. It's a display issue that the "indexing" isn't showing if no keywords were present for the photo. That's a known issue and has been logged.
Once the indexing is done, the keywords will show. Repeatedly saving won't help with the display issue and if anything might delay the indexing slightly.

WinsomeWorks

rainforest1155 wrote: »

There's no need for you to refresh or resave. The keywords are added the first time. It's a display issue that the "indexing" isn't showing if no keywords were present for the photo. That's a known issue and has been logged.
Once the indexing is done, the keywords will show. Repeatedly saving won't help with the display issue and if anything might delay the indexing slightly.

Well, the thing is... lots of times when you're working on a gallery, part of the process involves needing to see the keywords that are there. So if I don't refresh or re-save, I can't see them myself, which is a pain. I know it's been logged, so the big question (and really all we really care about!) is... when is it gonna be fixed? Like I mentioned... it's been noted for a long time. Going on 6 months now. And as I also noted, the poor un-initiated person does not have a clue that this is a problem, thinks they have to re-enter all their keywords or that they're doing something wrong. Stuff like this makes SmugMug appear bad or hard-to-use, & I hate stuff like that happening for months here because I do think we're better than that. Users shouldn't need to have problems like this go on for so long that they expect the wrong behavior from the site. No one seems to be getting the point here that this is the bug reporting forum and that means we report stuff with the expectation that SmugMug cares about fixing stuff that's broken!! I dislike having to keep explaining reasons why something should get fixed... waste of time, honestly. I also get tired of hearing all the ways I should work around it.

Andy

WinsomeWorks wrote: »

Well, the thing is... lots of times when you're working on a gallery, part of the process involves needing to see the keywords that are there. So if I don't refresh or re-save, I can't see them myself, which is a pain. I know it's been logged, so the big question (and really all we really care about!) is... when is it gonna be fixed? Like I mentioned... it's been noted for a long time. Going on 6 months now. And as I also noted, the poor un-initiated person does not have a clue that this is a problem, thinks they have to re-enter all their keywords or that they're doing something wrong. Stuff like this makes SmugMug appear bad or hard-to-use, & I hate stuff like that happening for months here because I do think we're better than that. Users shouldn't need to have problems like this go on for so long that they expect the wrong behavior from the site. No one seems to be getting the point here that this is the bug reporting forum and that means we report stuff with the expectation that SmugMug cares about fixing stuff that's broken!! I dislike having to keep explaining reasons why something should get fixed... waste of time, honestly. I also get tired of hearing all the ways I should work around it.

Anna Lisa, I'm sorry we've upset you. This has been logged but I can't say when a fix is coming. I'm sorry.

WinsomeWorks

VERY old bug - Keywords still don't show when added to photo
Ok, this bug is now over a year and a half old. It's getting older all the time. I can only imagine how it confuses new people. I've almost gotten used to this weird behavior of the keywords addition, but I'm sure new people assume their keywords didn't "take". If you click on "Edit", you see that they are indeed there. But really, they just need to show up under the photo without clicking "Edit".... the way they used to back before this crummy bug. It's frustrating that you can't glance at keywords after adding them & see what's there or what's not, unless you refresh or save or go away or whatever. Can we please re-add this bug to the "please fix" list?? I think it must've gotten lost.

cman

Probably, it will take another 10 years, before this bug will be included in the development.

WinsomeWorks

Bump! I posted this over a week ago and still no response. Just want to know that it gets a new mention on the FIX list.

WinsomeWorks wrote: »

Ok, this bug is now over a year and a half old. It's getting older all the time. I can only imagine how it confuses new people. I've almost gotten used to this weird behavior of the keywords addition, but I'm sure new people assume their keywords didn't "take". If you click on "Edit", you see that they are indeed there. But really, they just need to show up under the photo without clicking "Edit".... the way they used to back before this crummy bug. It's frustrating that you can't glance at keywords after adding them & see what's there or what's not, unless you refresh or save or go away or whatever. Can we please re-add this bug to the "please fix" list?? I think it must've gotten lost.

rainforest1155

Anna,
I'm sorry, I don't have any news on the bug. It's a reported issue, but I can't say when we might be able to resolve it.

WinsomeWorks

Legfacy - Ancient " Edit Keywords " BUG now worse -- logged in can't see keywords
I hardly have it in me to bring up this ancient bug yet again. It's an old Legacy bug that's been ignored. As you can see, I've been begging for it to get fixed since May 2011, and it has never been fixed. I've seen others complain off & on too. It was logged long ago, but the last SmugMug response on it was from Rainforest in Nov. 2012. I'm very very weary of this one, and I'll be needing it to work when I add a bunch of photos & galleries soon in Legacy. I don't know if the bug persists in New SmugMug or not. But now the bug is even worse... refreshing doesn't even help. Yes, if I click the "Edit" button, I can see that my keywords are there (I'm logged in all this time), but they simply don't show up under my photo even after refreshing 20 different times. I even went back 10 minutes later & they haven't showed up under my photo. That's worse than before. At least refreshing a couple times would make them show.

Getting a thunderstorm here & gotta shut down computer. So very quickly, to re-cap: I'm on FF with Vista. I'm logged in. I can see keywords under all my other photos that were added in the past. (And to clarify, I have keywords set to "NOT SHOW" when logged out. So my visitors don't see my keywords.) But anyway, the problem is now this: The entire keyword field shows no keywords whatsoever now when I've just added new ones (while in SmugMug style gallery, within the gallery, directly under a photo... not bulk editing). And now it doesn't matter if they've been added to a blank keyword field, or to a keyword field that has 2 or 10 or 20 keywords. If I've clicked "Edit" to add some to any keyword field, then "Save"... then I can't see any at all. It's like I didn't even add them. Unless I go back & hit "Edit" again (which is the only way to see if they're there!) then I can see them in the Editing field. But whether I hit "Save" or "Cancel" when leaving that field, I simply can't see them. Refreshing doesn't work. And there's no indication of "indexing" at all anymore. So I'm logged in still, but all I see under my photo is "Keywords / EDIT" under my photo that had keywords added 20 minutes ago. I have no way to know they're there unless I click "Edit".

Please, SmugMug, since this has now gotten even worse... could you please work on it? I don't want to go into how frustrating it is again. I need to be able to look at a photo at a glance and know if it's got keywords, & if so, which ones. Thank you! --Anna Lisa [ETA: if this ever gets added to the "Active Bugs" list, the title needs to be changed to "Legacy - Use 'Edit Keyword' field under photo, but keywords field appears blank after 'Save' or 'Cancel' " ]

P.S. I see this bug with photos that had keywords originally added in PhotoShop (I still can't see them initially when I upload a photo like that, or even if I add more) . I also see if with photos that did not have any keywords added in PS.

Andy

I don't see this on new SM. And I seriously doubt that SM Engineers will fix something like this on Legacy.... so I suggest migrating

pilotdave

Andy wrote: »

I don't see this on new SM. And I seriously doubt that SM Engineers will fix something like this on Legacy.... so I suggest migrating

One reason I won't unveil my new site is that it's much easier to edit keywords and captions on legacy. Newsmug is ridiculous compared to legacy when it comes to editing captions and keywords. So this is hardly an advertising point.

I wish smugmug would at least explain why they decided to make it so much harder on newsmug.

Here's an example of what I mean. Let's say I want to add keywords for each person in a group picture.

Here's what I see on Legacy


And here's the new and improved smugmug:


Can you guess which I like better? Why can't the silly photo details box at least be movable like the photo info box? It would still take a lot more effort to edit keywords, but at least I could see the picture I'm trying to tag.

Dave

WinsomeWorks

Glad for your boundless faith, Andy, but there have probably been about as many posts about keyword problems in New Smug than just about everything else, so I don't know what shape the regular box is in now. Just one of hundreds: http://dgrin.com/showpost.php?p=1908300&postcount=2 And just about everyone giving advice about switching is saying the same thing: Do all your re-organizing & keyword maintenance in Legacy before switching!! Really great. Very awe-inspiring.

WinsomeWorks

pilotdave wrote: »

One reason I won't unveil my new site is that it's much easier to edit keywords and captions on legacy. Newsmug is ridiculous compared to legacy when it comes to editing captions and keywords. So this is hardly an advertising point.

I wish smugmug would at least explain why they decided to make it so much harder on newsmug. ....
Dave

OH my GOSH. Ok, I seriously didn't even think it could possibly be that bad! :cry

WinsomeWorks

Keywords in Legacy not showing up under photo at all (unless WITHIN "Edit" box)
Ok, I just checked again. It's now been a couple hours. I can't see any of the keywords I added (to a few different photos in different galleries) under the photos at all. One had none before I added some, one had a few from PS before I added some, but that doesn't make a difference evidently. Either way, I can't see them. (unless I click "Edit"). So yeah, guys, this needs to be fixed even if you're only keeping Legacy for a couple more months. We can't go that long w/o seeing our keywords ever! It was one thing when we needed to refresh. But this is much much worse.

WinsomeWorks

No Smug love yet... To reproduce this Legacy Bug, please see my numbered instructions below. I've provided them before, but trying to make it clearer & recent. So-- keywords added yesterday directly under a photo (Legacy) are now visible (but not until at least 12 hours had passed) under the photo without having to go into the "Edit" box to even see them. But keywords added today again don't show up even after many F5s, unless I go into the Edit box. I imagine they'll show up without going into "Edit" much later today or tomorrow.

I re-did a few tests to be sure what conditions cause this:

In Legacy, in SmugMug style gallery, trying to add keywords using the Edit box under a large preview photo: (Not bulk edit!) here is the behavior:

1. If keyword field is blank: Click "Add". Add keyword. Click Save. Keyword is invisible (but you can guess that it's there because box says "Edit" rather than "Add". Click "Edit" again & there it is. Click save or cancel. Keyword may show or may not... it may take several refreshes. Or it may not show for many hours.
This next case, however, produces the correct behavior-- i.e. when keyword field has some keywords already:
2. If keyword field has some keywords in it: Click 'Add". Add keyword. Click "Save". Keyword is visible immediately. Says "indexing", and box says "Edit"... all is working correctly!

Notes:
-- at times, I thought it made a difference whether the photo had a caption or not. Today, it makes no difference
-- the same bug persists whether or not the gallery is Public or Unlisted, or the photo is hidden.
-- I am logged in at all times while keywording (of course) and my keywords are set to "Do not show" if logged out.
-- Overlapping this bug is the other bug which makes me not want to test: That newer (already reported) bug is breaking every multi-word keyword (such as " New York " without quotes) into two keywords. New York is becoming New, York when I enter & save keyword edit boxes now. Horrible bug that would kill lots of keyword galleries across SmugMug!

-- I realize you may not feel like fixing an old Legacy bug, but realize that a lot of people were relying on Legacy tools (while they exist) to work on keywords and some other organizing, as there are many, many, many Keyword bugs in the New SmugMug. If you don't fix this, you're giving people no options in some cases! In any case, we need to be able to see our keywords.

mbonocore

Anna, This is submitted, but the keyword does show up instantly on the New SmugMug

WinsomeWorks

mbonocore wrote: »

Anna, This is submitted, but the keyword does show up instantly on the New SmugMug

And you're sure it doesn't matter how the keywords were added (to a blank field or to a field with keywords already there?) If so, that's good, but I know there are certain keyword tasks I need to do in Legacy before migrating because of so many other keyword issues going on in NewSmug. Also, I was wrong about the Bulk Edit Captions & Keywords Tool working correctly. The same behavior happens there. I added a bunch a couple days ago in Bulk, & they too were invisible for quite awhile after saving. Along with this is the same Bug (on New and Legacy I believe) where certain edits can cause a multi-word keyword to break up! That one is a much worse bug in that it would create a lot of possibly un-fixable havoc in many galleries. I mention it because if they're connected, then they should work on them concurrently. But if not, give priority to that one! --Anna Lisa

WinsomeWorks

mbonocore wrote: »

Anna, This is submitted, but the keyword does show up instantly on the New SmugMug

I don't see this on the Active Bug List. --Anna Lisa

moiraine

There are a few issues being talked about in this thread... The one I'm interested in is the actual title of the thread (saving twice before the change shows up).

I've looked into this same bug several times over the past few weeks (it's not only keywords, it's also title, and probably caption). However, I've asked many people who have and don't have this issue. Once you can reproduce the problem, the issue persists, across all browsers.

The trick is to get the problem to occur. I have never been able to upload an image to a gallery and get the problem to occur, neither have a few testers I've worked closely with on this problem (one of them had a couple galleries with the issue, but could not reproduce herself).

If people can link to their sites (and a gallery they're uploading to), then confirm whether they DO or DONT experience this problem, we can try to narrow down the nature of the problem.

Good things to know (I think):
- how you're uploading (through lightroom? smugmug? to "this gallery" or "new gallery"? etc...)
- if you are uploading to a password protected area
- anything special about how these images were tagged prior to loading?

As a reminder, the problem is:
- on a photo with NO title/keyword (possible caption as well), that has never been touched
- edit the field
- save *once*
- observe if it actually saved
- once it hasn't saved, it will work the next time, so you'll probably want to somehow mark the photo as attempted or you could turn up with false positives

Allen

I'm confused, the OP has not migrated so what seen by OP is on legacy.

On legacy adding KW below photo and clicking save, the keyword would not most times. Sometimes it would show indexing.
But it eventually indexed and showed.

On NewSmug the KW seems to show right away.

WinsomeWorks

moiraine wrote: »

There are a few issues being talked about in this thread... The one I'm interested in is the actual title of the thread (saving twice before the change shows up).....
Good things to know (I think):
- how you're uploading (through lightroom? smugmug? to "this gallery" or "new gallery"? etc...)
- if you are uploading to a password protected area
- anything special about how these images were tagged prior to loading?

As a reminder, the problem is:
- on a photo with NO title/keyword (possible caption as well), that has never been touched
- edit the field
- save *once*
- observe if it actually saved (in other words, can you now see those added keywords without clicking "Edit"?) --Anna Lisa
- once it hasn't saved, it will work the next time, so you'll probably want to somehow mark the photo as attempted or you could turn up with false positives (Note that it can take many "refreshes" before the keywords are visible under the photo without clicking "Edit" now. And sometimes they don't show up w/o clicking Edit for many hours.) --Anna Lisa

Moraine, please see this latest info I posted instead of just the original info you mentioned. My title & first post was years ago, although the bug still persists! And like Allen notes, this is all about Legacy!! Here's the most recent info, and I've corrected a few things, such as the fact that this problem now exists not just when editing under a photo, but also in bulk-editing keywords within a gallery :

In Legacy, in SmugMug style gallery, trying to add keywords using the Edit box under a large preview photo (and in Bulk edit as well now !) here is the behavior:

1. If keyword field is blank: Click "Add". Add keyword. Click Save. Keyword is invisible (but you can guess that it's there because box says "Edit" rather than "Add". Click "Edit" again & there it is. Click save or cancel. Keyword may show or may not... it may take several refreshes. Or it may not show for many hours.
This next case, however, produces the correct behavior-- i.e. when keyword field has some keywords already:
2. If keyword field has some keywords in it: Click 'Add". Add keyword. Click "Save". Keyword is visible immediately. Says "indexing", and box says "Edit"... all is working correctly!

Notes:
-- at times, I thought it made a difference whether the photo had a caption or not. Today, it makes no difference
-- the same bug persists whether or not the gallery is Public or Unlisted, or the photo is hidden.
-- I am logged in at all times while keywording (of course) and my keywords are set to "Do not show" if logged out.
-- Overlapping this bug is the other bug which makes me not want to test: That newer (already reported) bug is breaking every multi-word keyword (such as " New York " without quotes) into two keywords. New York is becoming New, York when I enter & save keyword edit boxes now. Horrible bug that would kill lots of keyword galleries across SmugMug!

-- I realize you may not feel like fixing an old Legacy bug, but realize that a lot of people were relying on Legacy tools (while they exist) to work on keywords and some other organizing, as there are many, many, many Keyword bugs in the New SmugMug. If you don't fix this, you're giving people no options in some cases! In any case, we need to be able to see our keywords.