How to check for damaged CF card

cab.in.boston

I have recently been getting corrupted files, maybe 3-5 per download. I'll get a message from LR3 that certain files can't be copied to the desired location, or occasionally the file will copy but when I open the photo in LR3, it says "error with file" or "encountered unexpected end of file."

I'm using a Sandisk 8GB Ultra that I purchased from Adorama (I mention that b/c of the recent report of all the fake Sandisk cards floating around out there - I assume that cards purchased from Adorama are sure to be the real deal).

I do not delete individual files on the card, and I always format the card in-camera after downloading them to the PC. I've heard that doing otherwise can possibly lead to corrupted files/cards.

I have only noticed this since upgrading to LR 3.4. I did not "need" to upgrade, I did it mainly so I'd stop getting the upgrade available pop-up window. I've been thinking of rolling back to 3.3, but haven't tried that yet.

So my questions are - 1) how can I tell if my CF card is damaged and is there a way to repair it if it is? and 2) might this just be an issue with LR 3.4?

Matthew Saville

Hey there! Fortunarely, it sounds like you're doing everything right so I can at least speak for myself- no scolding necessary! Yes, the Sandisk Ultra II 8 GB cards are notorious, but from Adorama they should be alright. Having said that, it is probably time to retire the card unfortunately. The good news is, a new 8 GB card is just $50 or less.

As far as diagnostics are concerned, the only method that comes to mind is with a specialized card reading device such as a Hyperdrive. (now known as the "Color Space" lineup of products...) It's main purpose is on-location data backup, but it also has built-in data verification and card diagnostics that can check each "sector" of the card for data integrity. I am NOT sure, however, if a device like a Color Space can *repair* the card...

Other than that, just remember that on average, compact flash cards are only rated to 100,000 read/write cycles, and each image you click counts for *TWO* cycles if I am not mistaken. Even if that's not correct, chances are that if it's one of your only memory cards, 2-4 years of use will give you 100,000 read/write cycles one way or another, and it is simply time to retire the card.

Especially if it is your ONLY card of such a capacity, and maybe your only other cards are 4 GB or 2 GB etc. If the one card goes corrupt *while* you are shooting, then you're almost completely out of luck.

As a full-time professional, I just got used to planning for the absolute worst. Have enough memory cards to more than DOUBLE your greatest needs, in case a card fails while you are shooting, or in case you find yourself needing to shoot multiple things back to back without time to download. (Or, even if you do have time to download and format, it is much safer to "cycle through" your cards over the course of a week or a month, so that if something really serious happens to your camera or computer, at least you haven't shot new images over your most recent ones.)

Good luck!
=Matt=

cab.in.boston

Thanks, Matt. It is on your (among others) previous advice I've read that I have developed my "don't delete individual files, format in-camera" routine.

It is my only CF card (other than a whopping 256MB card from my first P&S digicam, circa 2001 ). If it's supposed to be rated for 100k cycles, then I'm very disappointed if it's dead. I bought my D300 (D90 using SD cards preceded the D300) just a year ago, and my LR catalog says I have something on the order of 6000 D300 shots. So even if it's 2 cycles per image, that's only ~12% of the rated life. Not happy with that.

I checked online today, and this same card is running about $35 w/free shipping. I think I'll pick myself up a couple of new ones, just to be on the safe side. I'm a hobbyist and d/l my files every day, rarely shooting even as much as a couple hundred shots in a day, so my storage needs are not very high. I'm was thinking of getting 3-4 4GB cards, but I do appreciate the 350-400 file capacity (14-bit lossless compressed RAW) of the 8GB size for the days I do shoot what for me is a lot.

I am hopeful that the problem is indeed with the CF card and not with the D300 that's writing the files. Sandisk does have a "limited lifetime warranty," but I can't find the original box to find out what that covers.

I just wasn't sure if there was a sort of "check disk" equivalent for CF cards that I could run to verify if the card was dead or OK.

Thanks for the reply!

billythek

I wouldn't put it past being a problem with LR 3.4. You should try reverting to 3.3 to see if it does make a difference.

I like LR 3.x, but it has had more than it's share of bugs. Adobe should be embarrassed.

Richard

One way you could rule out the camera is by copying pics that you know are good from your computer to the card, assuming you are using a card reader. Fill the card, then import the pics into LR tagging them so that you can delete them easily. If you can do this several times without encountering an error, that would suggest that your camera is at fault. If you see errors, then the card is possibly the culprit. I would also try using a different cable between the card reader and computer just to rule that out. Another experiment: put the card with files that have failed back in the camera and try to download it directly from the camera--that could indicate a problem with the reader. I realize this is all a lot of hassle, but from what you have told us, there is nothing that is obviously likely to be failing. Buying a new card is not a bad idea, but it might not solve the problem. It's conceivable that the new version of LR is at fault, but rolling back to 3.3 would be the last thing I would try.

Matthew Saville

cab.in.boston wrote: »

Thanks, Matt. It is on your (among others) previous advice I've read that I have developed my "don't delete individual files, format in-camera" routine.

It is my only CF card (other than a whopping 256MB card from my first P&S digicam, circa 2001 ). If it's supposed to be rated for 100k cycles, then I'm very disappointed if it's dead. I bought my D300 (D90 using SD cards preceded the D300) just a year ago, and my LR catalog says I have something on the order of 6000 D300 shots. So even if it's 2 cycles per image, that's only ~12% of the rated life. Not happy with that.

I checked online today, and this same card is running about $35 w/free shipping. I think I'll pick myself up a couple of new ones, just to be on the safe side. I'm a hobbyist and d/l my files every day, rarely shooting even as much as a couple hundred shots in a day, so my storage needs are not very high. I'm was thinking of getting 3-4 4GB cards, but I do appreciate the 350-400 file capacity (14-bit lossless compressed RAW) of the 8GB size for the days I do shoot what for me is a lot.

I am hopeful that the problem is indeed with the CF card and not with the D300 that's writing the files. Sandisk does have a "limited lifetime warranty," but I can't find the original box to find out what that covers.

I just wasn't sure if there was a sort of "check disk" equivalent for CF cards that I could run to verify if the card was dead or OK.

Thanks for the reply!

I can highly recommend stepping up to an Extreme card, instead of just buying more Ultra II's. It shouldn't cost more than a few bucks extra, and you'll be getting a more professional quality card.

It sounds like others (who know more than I do about the possible bugs with Lightroom) are advising a 3.3 revert, so definitely look into that. HOWEVER that shouldn't stop you from getting one or two extra cards, of course. Like I said, having just one card makes you EXTREMELY vulnerable to total failure, because if a card fails while you're shooting the best way to save images is to IMMEDIATELY remove the card from the camera and stop shooting with it, so you can run a recovery program as soon as you get home. If that's your only card, you're done shooting!

BTW for the record, professionally speaking for portraits and photojournalism, I've always done just fine using 12-bit and compressed RAW, I only ever really use higher quality RAW settings if I'm out shooting landscapes or something. But, I have to deal with 10,000+ raw images each week, during peak wedding season. So saving space is a little more important... ;-)

Good luck! Hopefully a new card and/or a Lightroom fix will solve the problem... And BTW, yes you can probably find a computer program to verify the integrity of a memory card too, I didn't think of that. It's pretty easy on a Mac, and I'm sure it's similar on a PC...

=Matt=

ziggy53

Is this an "Ultra" or an "Ultra II" card?

The new "Ultra" cards are a more recent design while the "Ultra II" date back a couple of years. (Sandisk recycled the name, confusing their market significantly.) 8GB cards are potentially still available in both versions.

Richard

Matthew Saville wrote: »

Other than that, just remember that on average, compact flash cards are only rated to 100,000 read/write cycles, and each image you click counts for *TWO* cycles if I am not mistaken. Even if that's not correct, chances are that if it's one of your only memory cards, 2-4 years of use will give you 100,000 read/write cycles one way or another, and it is simply time to retire the card.

This is a little misleading. The expected write cycle lifetime figures apply to each cell in the card, and there are billions of cells. I'm too lazy to look up the specifics of this card and do the arithmetic, but modern wear-leveling card controllers distribute the use evenly across cells, so statistically, the number of pics you can expect out of an 8GB card is in the millions. Keep in mind too that every time you format, the controller will map out any bad cells it finds. None of this is to suggest that card failure is impossible, but it is highly unlikely to be due to exceeding the wear specs. Physical damage or controller failure are much more likely.

Once again, I agree with Matt's recommendation to always have a couple of cards when shooting. As insurance goes, it's pretty cheap these days.

cab.in.boston

Thanks, everyone. I'll continue to investigate. I didn't shoot very much yesterday, just a few (6-8) photos while on a walk with my daughter and dog, and I think one of the files wouldn't copy over. I've noticed that sometimes if a file doesn't copy over the first time, I can eject the CF card, re-insert it, and try again. Sometimes the file loads correctly the second time, other times it doesn't.

I use a card reader that is built in to my PC, so there is no USB cable between card and PC. I have never connected the D300 to the PC directly, so I could try that and see if it still fails.

BTW, one file from Saturday had a visually corrupt preview JPG. I'll try and remember to grab a screen shot of it, it's a bit hard to explain. I could see the "real" photo underneath, but it was covered with a whole lot of horizontal lines of various colors. I think LR was able to recreate the real photo from the RAW file, but as it wasn't really a keeper photo, I didn't spend much time playing with it. If I can find more time to troubleshoot this problem, I'll go back and look at it. Because the real photo was there, albeit obscured, I wonder if the camera is writing the file correctly but the card has issues, or if the camera isn't writing/generating files correctly.

ziggy53 wrote: »

Is this an "Ultra" or an "Ultra II" card?

The new "Ultra" cards are a more recent design while the "Ultra II" date back a couple of years. (Sandisk recycled the name, confusing their market significantly.) 8GB cards are potentially still available in both versions.

It is one of the newer "Ultra" cards, no roman numeral. It's the 8GB version of this card:

Richard

cab.in.boston wrote: »

I use a card reader that is built in to my PC, so there is no USB cable between card and PC. I have never connected the D300 to the PC directly, so I could try that and see if it still fails.

OK, that's another possible failure point. If the direct download from the camera works, then you probably have a problem with the card reader slot on your PC. You could get around that by buying a cheap USB card reader.

Matthew Saville

Richard wrote: »

This is a little misleading. The expected write cycle lifetime figures apply to each cell in the card, and there are billions of cells. I'm too lazy to look up the specifics of this card and do the arithmetic, but modern wear-leveling card controllers distribute the use evenly across cells, so statistically, the number of pics you can expect out of an 8GB card is in the millions. Keep in mind too that every time you format, the controller will map out any bad cells it finds. None of this is to suggest that card failure is impossible, but it is highly unlikely to be due to exceeding the wear specs. Physical damage or controller failure are much more likely.

Once again, I agree with Matt's recommendation to always have a couple of cards when shooting. As insurance goes, it's pretty cheap these days.

Thanks for that (geeky) info! I'm glad to hear this. Although I do beleive I will continue to replace my memory cards after at *most* 200,000 images, or more like every 2-4 years. Like you said, as far as image safety goes, it's a pretty cheap price to pay...

=Matt=

SamirD

Richard wrote: »

OK, that's another possible failure point. If the direct download from the camera works, then you probably have a problem with the card reader slot on your PC. You could get around that by buying a cheap USB card reader.

I agree that trying the card in another card reader would be a good idea. USB card readers are very cheap devices, especially if they come with the computer. And they're probably more prone to failure than a card.

I've shot over 100k on Sony Memory Sticks as well as almost 75k on a Sandisk 2gb SD Card plus (the one that would also transform in to a usb flash drive) without any errors. The only problems I've had are with one of my 3 microdrives. My original 1gb from earlier this decade still works great and error-free.

Art Scott

Cab ....... is there any chance you removed the card with the camera on.....that can cause corruption in the card.
Also I recommend placing a call to San Disk Tech support.....I have doen this in the past with Lexar and San Disk due to cards behaving badly....
and both ran diagnostics over the computer connection to deduce the problem.....only took a couple of minutes......
Lexar tech called the card's time of death and fedex'ed another card over night.....
SanDisk tech ...... declared card was a counterfeit and told me to get refund.......which I did........
...then I bought into Transcend and have not looked back.......oh I have 2 Lexars (2gb 80x pro) that I have been using for over 8 yrs, without a prob.

hgernhardtjr

I assume, Cab, from what you are saying, that the card at one time worked with no problem in the exact same computer you are using (since you made no mention of the computer) pre-LR 3.4 so this may not be an issue with you.

However, others reading this thread may benefit from knowing that (besides the possibility of getting flakey as others above have stated), the first couple of generations of built-in readers can not read (or may not properly read) newer, higher capacity cards.

This is an issue I have encountered several times with my students' personal computers, as well as our own, older, lab computers. The solution wass to use a newer, external reader or (and this is the easiest) to use the camera with its USB cord to try downloading as Richard advised ... you could then make a confident decision about the CF card.

cab.in.boston

Art Scott wrote: »

Cab ....... is there any chance you removed the card with the camera on.....that can cause corruption in the card.

That's a possibility, I suppose, but unlikely. I am careful not to change lenses, mount or dismount the flash in the hotshoe, or remove the card with the camera on. I could have oopsed, but I doubt it.

Art Scott wrote: »

Also I recommend placing a call to San Disk Tech support.....

I'll keep that in mind. I haven't had any time lately to do more troubleshooting, but I will definitely call them if I become more convinced that the card is bad.

hgernhardtjr wrote: »

I assume, Cab, from what you are saying, that the card at one time worked with no problem in the exact same computer you are using (since you made no mention of the computer) pre-LR 3.4 so this may not be an issue with you.

That is correct. I've been doing a 365 project, and this same computer/reader/card combination has worked with no (or very few) hiccups for the last 11 months or so. The PC is less than a year old, so I'm assuming that the CF slot is relatively current technology.

The card has not misbehaved in the last couple of days. Well, that's not entirely true. Last night the import process hung in LR3.4, but when I retried it worked. Well, that's not entirely true. The retry worked copying to my primary storage drive, but failed to copy them to the backup location. I'm wondering if this is more of a LR problem than a CF problem.

Yesterday I got the message that Adobe had released LR 3.4.1, which among other things, fixes bugs introduced in 3.4. However, when I read the release, the bugs fixed do not mention anything about issues with importing files. Anyway, I downloaded it last night, but have not yet installed the new (and hopefully improved) release.

Matthew Saville

Art Scott wrote: »

Cab ....... is there any chance you removed the card with the camera on.....that can cause corruption in the card.

In which system? I haven't heard this about Nikon, although I know Canon cameras really freak out when you open the CF door when the camera is on.

=Matt=

Richard

Matthew Saville wrote: »

In which system? I haven't heard this about Nikon, although I know Canon cameras really freak out when you open the CF door when the camera is on.

=Matt=

I believe they just shut down. Normally, this isn't a problem, but I don't imagine anything good can happen if the camera is still in the process of transferring data from its buffer to the card. There are smart ways it could handle this, but I don't really know what it does. In any event, I don't believe this could explain the OP's problem.

cab.in.boston

Thanks, everyone, for your ideas and help. I'm still planning on getting some backup CF cards, but I am wondering more and more whether that's my (only) problem.

I had an issue reading files yesterday. I only shot a few, but it wouldn't read any of them. I went ahead and installed Lr3.4.1 that I'd downloaded the other day, and still had the same problem. I formatted the card and reshot the photos, and still had no luck. Then (should have done this first), I checked my file server and it was hung, so I had to restart that PC. Normally my little home network works fine, but sometimes it freaks out on me.

FWIW, I run LR on a Win7 64-bit PC and I store my files on redundant HDDs on a PC in the basement running Ubuntu 10.03 (yes, I should run a more sophisticated RAID setup, but I don't have that running yet... eventually). Yesterday the Ubuntu machine was hosed and after I restarted it, LR worked fine, no problem transferring the files. So at least for yesterday there was no problem with the CF card.

I still think there is some kind of issue with either the CF card, card reader, or the camera, because usually when it fails, it's been only a small subset of photos in a download rather than the whole set like yesterday when the server was hung. Anyway, I appreciate all the advice and I will update the situation when I have a better idea of what is going on.

Art Scott

Matthew Saville wrote: »

In which system? I haven't heard this about Nikon, although I know Canon cameras really freak out when you open the CF door when the camera is on.

=Matt=

happened with D300 just a few days ago......I had shut off the cam and then some how I hot the switch again before taking the card out and it was corrupted, I retrieved the files alright, but it was still corrupted and when i looked at the cam it was on.......

so it can happen, at least to me..............

joeinmiami

I had run into the problem were when I am about to download the pictures to the computer, it can not find anything! I had this happens on my old D80 and the camera was not able to see the pictures either.

I downloaded one of those recovery programs and was able to recover all my photos. After I recovered the photos I formatted the card in the computer a couple of times then I put it in the garbage.

One good thing my new D7000 has is the 2 slots for cards, I set the camera to use the second one as a backup then fire away.

By the way, the reader in the PC HAS a cable, it is inside the case and it connected to the internal USB port in the motherboard; if the connector is loose you could encounter problems with the reader.

Joe

eoren1

Cab-
I had a problem with a batch of Sandisks from Adorama a while back. Went through 3-4 levels of support at Sandisk. Turned out it was a bad batch and got new cards. That was 2 years ago and the replacements have been great.
Turns out Adorama is having a sale on Sandisks right now. You can get two 8 gig Extremes for $75. Two 8 gig ultras are only $50.
Link: http://slickdeals.net/forums/showthread.php?sduid=19615&t=2977395

MomaZunk

You might want to check your computer's memory.

I had some corruption problems that I was chasing last year.

I use more than one card, and I did not think it was happening with just one card.

I also tried not using the card reader and using my camera directly to the PC and I still saw the same issue occasionally.

I checked the PC memory thoroughly, and it was fine.

Then my boot drive started giving me the BSOD on occasion.

I finally suspected the motherboard controller.

It was time to upgrade to i7 and Windows 7-64 bit anyway.

I have not had any issues since.

cab.in.boston

Thanks again, everyone. Since I last posted some time ago, I have not seen this issue again. The only notable change is that I am having trouble with my Ubuntu PC that I use for file storage, and so I bought a NAS to store the files. Since I've been saving RAW files to the NAS, I have not had this happen. And currently my Ubuntu system is dead. I'm trying to recover it, since I'd really rather not lose all the 20-some thousand images I have on those drives (although I'm pretty sure the HDDs are safe so I could get those files back with my external enclosure), and I like having the secondary system anyway.

Anyway, I am pretty sure now that my CF card is fine and that the issues were likely with the PC. I'm going to try and take this opportunity to set up a more sophisticated RAID system on the Ubuntu machine (assuming I can get it running) to go along with the 2TB NAS.

So this is turning into a home network rebuild time, and right now I'm just using the NAS for photo storage. Kind of bugs me to only be saving to one place, but I don't expect this to be a long project, and I can make backup copies of everything on the NAS when I'm done...

Now back to your regularly scheduled shooting.

SamirD

joeinmiami wrote: »

I downloaded one of those recovery programs and was able to recover all my photos. After I recovered the photos I formatted the card in the computer a couple of times then I put it in the garbage.

I probably could have still used that card. :cry I would've mapped out the bad spots and used it as a boot drive in an older computer.

SamirD

Ahhh...the joys of IT management. I hate dealing with infrastructure issues when I just want the job to be done. I've been working on a self-replicating, self-checking VPN off-site backup solution now for a couple of years, but can never find time to work on it. :cry

cab.in.boston

/crossing fingers/

I think my IT issues may be over for a while. Last night I was able to isolate one of my RAM DIMMs that had many errors. I the other 3 were good but I can only use pairs, so I installed 2 and was able to install Ubuntu 11.04 and get all the HDDs mounted and shared. So it looks like I'm back up and running with what should be a stable system. I'm running only 2 GB RAM now instead of 4, but for what I need this PC to do, that is plenty.

And as I mentioned above, I have not seen this problem in a while now with corrupted files since I last used the unstable Ubuntu install. We'll see how it goes...

/uncross/

ziggy53

Good luck and thanks for getting back with an update.

SamirD

cab.in.boston wrote: »

/crossing fingers/

I think my IT issues may be over for a while. Last night I was able to isolate one of my RAM DIMMs that had many errors. I the other 3 were good but I can only use pairs, so I installed 2 and was able to install Ubuntu 11.04 and get all the HDDs mounted and shared. So it looks like I'm back up and running with what should be a stable system. I'm running only 2 GB RAM now instead of 4, but for what I need this PC to do, that is plenty.

And as I mentioned above, I have not seen this problem in a while now with corrupted files since I last used the unstable Ubuntu install. We'll see how it goes...

/uncross/

Good to hear. I guess you can try to take advantage of the 'lifetime warranty' that's on most memory and get that replaced so you can get back to 100%