Colorspace problem--sRGB

tmanchester

OK--first of all, I did do a search, in case anyone asks.

I understand the importance of sRGB. I have received emails from smugmug support telling me to use sRGB. I save photos in that colorspace (Photoshop CS for Windows), but am still having problems getting the colors to display properly.

I uploaded a test file, and then downloaded the full size "original" from smugmug. I then cut and pasted both of these into one side by side shot (below). The picture on the left is the file that I uploaded. The one on the right is how it is displayed on the website ("original" size). No other alterations have been made to these photos.



So what is the problem? My customers are telling me that my photos look washed out, and they are afraid the prints will look that way too.

Of equal importance is the question of how the prints will turn out. Will they look like the original files I sent (using ezprints icc adjusted on a color corrected monitor), or will they look like what is displayed?

Thanks for any help you can provide!:1drink

Andy

please provide exact workflow steps, from opening file to saving file. all steps, options etc.



PS: this image is displayed from pbase. what's your smugmug site address? and actual links to these pics?

thank you

tmanchester

Thanks for the help
You're right, that was a pbase photo--I put it there as a sanity check.

Here is a link to a gallery I am having issues with:

http://thomasmanchester.smugmug.com/share/MlKlljjR5PaAk

Here is the workflow for this picture specifically:

http://thomasmanchester.smugmug.com/gallery/861725/1/38846733/Medium

Open Nikon raw NEF file
Select sRGB color space
click OK
file opens in photoshop
resize
save using this color space:


upload to smugmug

That's about it. The colors appear washed out once they are uploaded compared to what I see in Photoshop CS. The difference I see is very similarto the photo I posted in the earlier post.

My concern is not only the complaints I get from customers about dull colors, but perhaps more importantly, what can I expect to see when the prints come? Will it look more like the vivid colors I see in Photoshop (color corrected monitor and ezprints icc profile printing in true color), or will it be more like with I see on the smugmig website?

Thanks

Andy

i believe the problem lies in your workflow and the nikon capture software. it's come up before, here's a post/thread

something's happening on the way to the wedding - the groom's stopping off at a cathouse and having one last fling for the road, and getting "all washed out."

i don't use nikon capture - but there are plenty here who do, i'll try to get harry or ben to chime in... or baldy..

stay tuned

tmanchester

There might be a problem with Nikon Capture, but I'm not using it.

I am using the adobe camera raw plugin to open the NEF.

Any other guesses?

Thanks for your time.

Andy

tmanchester wrote:

There might be a problem with Nikon Capture, but I'm not using it.

I am using the adobe camera raw plugin to open the NEF.

Any other guesses?

Thanks for your time.

ah my mistake - not a nikon user so i was just stabbing in the dark..

ok - when you open in acr, are you opening in srgb? if not, why not? if not, after working in ps, are you converting to srgb? when you save as, the dialog box should plainly say, "srgb...." your photo has been saved in adobe rgb:



be sure to either 1) work in or 2) save as, sRGB and you'll be fine

hope this helps,

Harryb

I went to your smugmug site and I looked at the 8 shots. The group shots appear to be much more vibrant while the individual shots do appear to be washed out. When I check the exif data on the group shots its shows color space-srgb. On the individual shots it shows color space -unknown.


I would try checking out the color space of the saved shots and make sure they are in srgb. If yes I would delete the current shots and then upload the srgb shots.

tmanchester

You are clearly right--on that photo...
However, as I mentioned, the workflow I gave you referenced this specific photo:

http://thomasmanchester.smugmug.com/gallery/861725/1/38846733/Medium

This one was saved in sRGB, and is still a bit washed out, wouldn't you say?

Here is another that is sRGB (I double checked the exif):

http://thomasmanchester.smugmug.com/gallery/861725/1/38853251/Large

It is nowhere near as vivid as I see in Photoshop (again, color corrected monitor, ICC installed). Which way will my photo turn out--that's the question.

Thanks again!:):

tmanchester

Thanks, Harry and Andy
Both of you guys have been very helpful. I must be doing something to accidently get these in Adobe98--I'll have to triple check.

You guys are awesome for helping me like this--I hipe I can return the favor some day!

Andy

tmanchester wrote:

Both of you guys have been very helpful. I must be doing something to accidently get these in Adobe98--I'll have to triple check.

You guys are awesome for helping me like this--I hipe I can return the favor some day!

with pleasure, please share your next results

jfriend

A test to try...

tmanchester wrote:

However, as I mentioned, the workflow I gave you referenced this specific photo:

http://thomasmanchester.smugmug.com/gallery/861725/1/38846733/Medium

This one was saved in sRGB, and is still a bit washed out, wouldn't you say?

Here is another that is sRGB (I double checked the exif):

http://thomasmanchester.smugmug.com/gallery/861725/1/38853251/Large

It is nowhere near as vivid as I see in Photoshop (again, color corrected monitor, ICC installed). Which way will my photo turn out--that's the question.

Thanks again!:):

One thing to be careful of is that EXIF can say sRGB if the sRGB profile was "assigned", not "converted to".

I would suggest narrowing the problem down by first removing Smugmug from the equation. If you take the same photo that you uploaded to Smugmug and open it in IE directly from your hard disk, does it look like you see it in Photoshop or on Smugmug?

If it looks like you see it in Smugmug, then it's a problem with your Photoshop workflow and apparently the image is not getting properly converted to sRGB.

The simplest way to make sure you are getting an sRGB image is to open your image in Photoshop and select Edit/Convert to Profile like in this dialog:


Then save as a JPEG. In the workflow you described above, I didn't understand how it was really getting converted to the right profile. Remember there is a difference between assigning a profile and converting to a profile.

--John

tmanchester

Thanks
Good stuff. Thanks!

tmanchester

This was Monday--the kind of stuff I prefer to shoot. I jst wish I could make money at it!

jfriend

They are AdobeRGB when you are uploading them

tmanchester wrote:

Good stuff. Thanks!

I can confirm that you are uploading AdobeRGB files to smugmug. I downloaded one of your originals (http://thomasmanchester.smugmug.com/photos/38828075-O.jpg) and took it into Photoshop and it told me it was in AdobeRGB.

I converted it to sRGB, saved back as a JPEG, uploaded to my smugmug gallery and got this which doesn't have the washed out problem when compared to your smugmug upload:




Here's your smugmug image:

--John

tmanchester

Wow
That worries me.

What could I be doing wrong, then? My exif shows sRGB!



Maybe the one you saw was adobe. How about this one:

http://thomasmanchester.smugmug.com/gallery/861725/1/38858878/Large

jfriend

tmanchester wrote:

That worries me.
Maybe the one you saw was adobe. How about this one:
http://thomasmanchester.smugmug.com/gallery/861725/1/38858878/Large

Something is messed up because I don't see an image at all at that link. There's a shell of an image that won't display in either Firefox or IE.

What I would suggest you do is to just take the exact image I showed you was AdobeRGB, load it from your hard disk into Photoshop, use the Convert to Profile function on it to make sure it's sRGB, save it to JPEG, upload it to smugmug and verify that that workflow works. I'm 99% sure that will work since that's all I did. Once it does, you will need to find out where in your workflow things are going wrong.

--John

tmanchester

I think that was deleted...
..since I'm working on that gallery right now.

this link is good, if you're curious:
http://thomasmanchester.smugmug.com/gallery/861725/1/38860149/Medium


I think I have it figured out. Some of the earlier uploads may bave been in Adobe, but since I've gotten all of the help, the new ones should all be sRGB.

Thanks so much for the assistance!

jfriend wrote:

Something is messed up because I don't see an image at all at that link. There's a shell of an image that won't display in either Firefox or IE.

What I would suggest you do is to just take the exact image I showed you was AdobeRGB, load it from your hard disk into Photoshop, use the Convert to Profile function on it to make sure it's sRGB, save it to JPEG, upload it to smugmug and verify that that workflow works. I'm 99% sure that will work since that's all I did. Once it does, you will need to find out where in your workflow things are going wrong.

--John