Head kicks

Svennie · June 2, 2011

Dutch Masters Taekwondo 2011, Rotterdam (NL)
After I sadly lost the final myself (B-74kg), I grabbed my camera and start shooting. Mostly of my team mates of course, but also of some of the other matches.
I made a selection of head kicks, you can find the rest in my gallery. These are (almost) SOOC, except for a batch color correction.
Oh, nobody was (seriously) injured during the making of these shots :wink

1) Bandae Dollyo Chagi

2) Naero Chagi

3) Dollyo Chagi

4) Dwitcha Chagi

5) Naero Chagi

6) Naero Chagi

Thank you for watching

johng · June 2, 2011

The timing is nice on these, but there are a number of issues which really hurt the quality. The first is that they are all framed much too loosely. Too much dead space - you want to frame quite a bit tighter. Framing tighter will also allow you to crop down on the interesting action. For example, if the action was filling the frame you might be able to crop down on just the torso to highlight facial expression and point of contact. Second issue is the shutter speed on these is just too slow - too much blur. Third, they're all a bit underexposed. You're going to have that with the white dobok. You want to get faces exposed properly and the natural tendency is for the camera to expose the white as gray which leads to underexposed faces. You could do some post processing to improve the crops and exposure and that would help this series somewhat. Slow shutter speeds would still be a big issue, but you should try to make the best out of what you have right now. Next time you decide to photograph though: try to get shutter speed at least 1/400, get exposure better for faces (shoot manual exposure rather than aperture priority) and try to frame tighter in-camera to give yourself more detail for necessary cropping.

Svennie · June 2, 2011

Thanks for the suggestions, johng

Usually I process every image by hand (cropping, colors, etc) but I haven't had the time to do all of these, as I'm still behind on my photo shoots...

Next time I'll try to push the shutter to 1/400 or so! When I'm not competing
myself I'll have more time to experiment with for example my 50mm or 85mm.

Cropping in-camera is very hard though, as these players move really quickly.

Thanks again!

johng · June 2, 2011

Svennie - yep, it's a challenge. But I have to mention something: this is about photography not about TKD. I have a 2nd dan in TKD but who cares? It's great that you're a martial artist (as am I) but that fact doesn't equate to "bonus points" on the photos. This is a photography site - not a martial arts site. Sports photography takes practice - just like martial arts. when you half-a$$ the photography you end up with poor results just like people that half-a$$ their training. Think about it - if you lost a forms competition because you didn't have time to do the form correctly, would anyone care that you didn't do it correctly because you were busy taking photos instead of practicing? Use your knowledge of the sport as a benefit, stop using your participation in the sport as an excuse. If you want to be a photographer of sports, take it just as seriously as you take your training. I can't imagine ever trying to tell one of my master's that I only gave a fight 50% and I usually give more but I was busy with something else. Until you take your learning and practice of the photography just as serious you'll be stuck as a 10th kup in photography. The "i didn't have time to edit these" is as poor an excuse as telling your master "I didn't have time to practice"

Svennie · June 2, 2011

I'm sorry. I put these up quickly for my coach and team and thought I share them here, mainly for good fun. They are snap shots and I didn't pretend them to be anything more than that. If this is not the place for it, I'll remove the post, no problem.

Zerodog · June 2, 2011

Svennie wrote: »

I'm sorry. I put these up quickly for my coach and team and thought I share them here, mainly for good fun. They are snap shots and I didn't pretend them to be anything more than that. If this is not the place for it, I'll remove the post, no problem.

No this is the right place. Johng is just trying to help you out. I was going to tell you pretty much the same thing, but he beat me too it. You are lucky to get critique. It sucks worse to put stuff up and have no one say anything. Remember this is a place to learn and improve your skills. Sometimes it isn't what you want to hear that helps you. If you want lots of praise post them up on facebook and all your friends will tell you how awesome they are. I know what you mean about competing then shooting. I do that for all of my Moto Trials photos. I get them throughout the day as I am competing myself. It can be hard to switch gears. But you have a huge advantage of knowing a sport very well. Instead of just some observer with a camera. You are in it and know it. Use that to your advantage always.

You did not do all bad for these. Your timing looks to be pretty good. Getting the peak of action is not always an easy thing. The other thing you did very well is get the color right. That can be one of the hardest parts of shooting at an indoor gym type venue.

One thing not mentioned before was the background. They are really busy and too in focus. There is not much you can do about backgrounds for an event like this. But the one thing you can control is your DOF. f4 or even less will do a good job of separating your subjects from the background.

#1 closer
#2 background
#3 closer still
#4 get your shutter speed up. 1/500 or more for this type of event.

When you do more of these post back. We will pound you some more

But the more you post and have people comment, the better you will get at photography.

Svennie · June 2, 2011

Zerodog wrote: »

No this is the right place. Johng is just trying to help you out.

I know. His first post was right on the money. His second not so much.

I was going to tell you pretty much the same thing, but he beat me too it. You are lucky to get critique.

Very true, and I appreciate every comment! As long it is about the photography and not about me.

You did not do all bad for these. Your timing looks to be pretty good. Getting the peak of action is not always an easy thing. The other thing you did very well is get the color right. That can be one of the hardest parts of shooting at an indoor gym type venue.

Thanks<img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/6029383/emoji/thumb.gif" border="0" alt="" >

One thing not mentioned before was the background. They are really busy and too in focus. There is not much you can do about backgrounds for an event like this. But the one thing you can control is your DOF. f4 or even less will do a good job of separating your subjects from the background.

Unfortunately the lens I used is a 28-300VR@3.5-5.6. Hopefully I get the 80-200@1.8 back quickly and I already have a 50@1.8 and a 80@1.8. These will do much better next time, including getting the shutter < 1/400s.

#1 closer
#2 background
#3 closer still
#4 get your shutter speed up. 1/500 or more for this type of event.

When you do more of these post back. We will pound you some more <img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/6029383/emoji/mwink.gif" border="0" alt="" > But the more you post and have people comment, the better you will get at photography.

What I'll do is select and edit the best of the 99 photos and post them here again <img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/6029383/emoji/mwink.gif" border="0" alt="" >

Thank you for the comments and suggestions on the photos!

nipprdog · June 2, 2011

Svennie wrote: »

I know. His first post was right on the money. His second not so [EMAIL="much.@1.8"]much.[/EMAIL]

Icebear · June 2, 2011

You're shooting with the D700, right? Crank the ISO to 3200 and fire away man. 6400 if the lights really are crap. You're killing your results with your low ISOs.

johng · June 3, 2011

Svennie wrote: »

I know. His first post was right on the money. His second not so much.
Very true, and I appreciate every comment! As long it is about the photography and not about me.

Photography is as much about the photographer as how he uses his equipment. As mentioned, this isn't facebook. It's a site about photography. In my opinion you were making excuses for not doing all you could to make the photos better. When you don't do your job as the person behind the camera and behind the keyboard and the photos suffer because of it - that's relevant. I tried to put it in terms that you, as a martial artist, could understand. Apparently I failed. In the end the advice is still the same - if you want to be a photographer instead of someone who takes snapshots you need to put forth effort. If you can't recover from the bruised ego caused by someone suggesting you didn't do your part as the photographer then it's going to be difficult. Just like maturing as a martial artist is difficult if you can't accept harsh critique there.

bluesman graham · June 3, 2011

Godda agree with John here Svennie!, If you wanted people just to view your competition images then by all means use Flikr etc, but as serious sports images, open for review etc, you should have taken the time to edit etc before posting if you didn't want the "whats with the quality?" issue.
As stated by icebear, the shutter speed is way too low for the sport in question!, I accept that lenses have their limits but a D700 has the same sensor as the D3

, & can cope with 3200 no problem!!. Action is first class by the way!:D, just,....

A. use your obvious knowlage of the sport to position yourself for the fights more!,
B. use a higher ISO to up the shutter speed (3200 is nothing to your camera sensor!!),
C. Look for the best crops of the action!.
Look forward to more images. Kind regards Graham.

Svennie · June 4, 2011

johng wrote: »

Photography is as much about the photographer as how he uses his equipment. As mentioned, this isn't facebook. It's a site about photography. In my opinion you were making excuses for not doing all you could to make the photos better. When you don't do your job as the person behind the camera and behind the keyboard and the photos suffer because of it - that's relevant. I tried to put it in terms that you, as a martial artist, could understand. Apparently I failed. In the end the advice is still the same - if you want to be a photographer instead of someone who takes snapshots you need to put forth effort. If you can't recover from the bruised ego caused by someone suggesting you didn't do your part as the photographer then it's going to be difficult. Just like maturing as a martial artist is difficult if you can't accept harsh critique there.

Then we agree this was not to place to show these snaps. I'm truly sorry.
I can take harsh critique and I do understand what you are saying, if these images were my best. They are not.
So, I won't post any snaps here any more, only those that have had my fullest attention and are not snaps SOOC. You can critique those as you like and I promise you, I'll take it like a man

Calling somebody a half-*** photographer is not helping the discussion though.

johng · June 4, 2011

Svennie wrote: »

Calling somebody a half-*** photographer is not helping the discussion though.

please re-read. I said when you half-a@@ the photography. The comment is directed at the effort given. At no time did I call you a half ### photographer. At least it was never my intent to.

Icebear · June 4, 2011

Let me offer my own observations and opinions. First, I don't think there's anything wrong with posting snapshots in this forum. Noplace in the "rules" does it say this community is only for advanced photography. I would humbly suggest though that it exists for the advancement of photography. Some of us feel more compelled than others to offer critiques on images, whether or not specifically solicited. Some of us only post images we're particularly proud of, others of us post images that appeal to us for other reasons.

Personally, I wish DGrin had not dumped the Whipping Post or its gentler cousin, the Refinery. I feel like those highly charged sub-forums gave some of us an outlet that we no longer have to eviscerate other photographers who had the cojones to post what they thought of as their top-shelf stuff.

I'd say keep posting snapshots if you want, but tell us why you think it's "interesting" enough to post. Hey, if it's YOUR kid doing something heroic, and you want to brag with a crappy snapshot, brag away! It's still a photo. OTOH, if all you ever post are snapshots, don't expect many comments at all.

Sorry. I'm done, my friends. Thank you for listening . . . and play nice.

PatLovell · June 4, 2011

Svennie wrote: »

Then we agree this was not to place to show these snaps. I'm truly sorry.
I can take harsh critique and I do understand what you are saying, if these images were my best. They are not.
So, I won't post any snaps here any more, only those that have had my fullest attention and are not snaps SOOC. You can critique those as you like and I promise you, I'll take it like a man

Calling somebody a half-*** photographer is not helping the discussion though.

John was spot on in his critique.

The only thing I can add is, sports photography is different than portrait photography and really shouldn't require any post processing, other than cropping. Most sports photographers work on tight deadlines to get timely images out to clients during and immediately after a sporting event. So, there is no time for post processing work.

SOOC should be your goal...

Head kicks

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