Peter Lik: From the Edge

richy

x

David_S85

Still waiting for him to say "oh, crikey!"

Episode guide.

His site

endsoftheearth

You can bet that whatever Peter Lik does or says is all about him. He has taken average talent and marketed it into financial success. The real wonder is that his head actually fits inside a TV set, even and large screen.

squirl033

endsoftheearth wrote: »

You can bet that whatever Peter Lik does or says is all about him. He has taken average talent and marketed it into financial success. The real wonder is that his head actually fits inside a TV set, even and large screen.

Lik is not a bad photographer by any means, but his talent for marketing is much greater than his talent as a photographer.

squirl033

richy wrote: »

I would say that he has had incredible opportunity and has taken full advantage of it. A lot of people underestimate the skill required to shoot large format or a 617, the vision required to see the potential for a shot and the time and dedication it takes to get it.

That being said he is an excellently marketed photographer, but at least he does have the skill to back it up. $200m in sales and a chain of galleries isn't shabby, there aren't many posting here that can get close to it.

he's also been at it for 25 years, and has definitely parlayed his ability into an impressive marketing empire. but i suspect that most competent photographers, given the opportunity to visit the places he's been and the equipment to take advantage of it, could produce pretty much the same results.

squirl033

the real question is, aside from his use of the 6x17 format (which any good photographer could master with a few months' practice), what does HE do that any good photographer couldn't do given the same opportunities? notice that i said any "good" photographer - as in someone who knows how to compose a pleasing image and how to properly use exposure, light, shape, shadow and color to produce a good photograph. sure, Lik's work is better than most amateurs', but i've seen images from dozens of nameless landscape photographers that are - in my humble estimation - as good as his, and plenty from people like Galen Rowell and Art Wolfe and Marc Adamus that i like much better. i've seen a number of Lik's photos, and there's no question he's done some very nice work. i just don't believe he's as good as HE thinks he is... he's taken good but not stellar talent and through relentless self-promotion, built himself a very successful business. and that's fine... nothing wrong with it, other than his ego. i'm sure many of us would love to be as successful! but he lost his credibility with me when he captioned a photo he took in Antelope Canyon saying that dust devils created swirling clouds of dust within the canyon. i've been there, and taken the exact same shot (and probably just as good a photo), as have thousands of other photographers, and there is NO wind in that canyon. the swirling dust is created by the Navajo guide out of sight behind a rock outcrop tossing sand into the sunbeam! but Lik had to try to make it sound like he was experiencing something exotic and rare, trying to make gullible viewers believe he'd captured something mere mortals could never hope to see. that kind of dishonesty simply isn't necessary if your work stands on its own merits.

squirl033

richy wrote: »

I doubt it is physically possible to be as good as he thinks he is, I have no quibble with your comments on that front!

Re the dishonesty, if thats correct then sure he has no reason to lie and lacks credibility if he does.

I'm not attempting to belittle you, or turn round and say, you've never shot 617 so what do you know, but I will try explain a little of what I see as making it more difficult and why I appreciate his work.

What does he do that a really damn good photographer doesn't do (taking photographic style out of it), nothing besides be there and actually do it. To some degree the quality of his work (on a technical standpoint) can only really be appreciated when you are stood a few inches away from an 6-10ft print. A 6x17 chrome at 4000 dpi can print 40" high and 110"wide at a pretty damn high res (240dpi) without any interpolation and results in a ~250mp full colour (no bayerness) image. The nearest digital can get is 1/3rd of this res without 'faking' and interpolating or using multishot jiggery and then you have a bayer sensor.

I don't know if you have shot film in any format, but larger formats (medium and above) require a totally different approach and there is no chimping. In some cases there is very little framing (I'm thinking of the non gg 617's) and exposure needs to be nailed. You cannot bang off shots checking the LCD. Given the short amount of time you usually have to take some shots and the great amount of time you have to wait for them to occur you have to be right first time and not just nearly right like digital, you have to be within 1/3ev of the ideal exposure and have taken into account the filters you have to use (probably center spot and coral / coral grad in his case). With large format you gain a large gg to use for framing etc, but you add a lot of time in setting up the shot so again you are back to maybe having time to take 1 or 2 shots (plus bracketing) in most time critical situations. 617 requires a very strong ability to visualize the shot on your head. I think the newer shen hao has gg (and is a great piece of kit!), but otherwise you have to really know the camera.

There is another huge consideration when switching to larger formats. To maintain a decent DOF you need a much larger aperture and simply upping the iso of your film to compensate loses you the advantage of a larger capture medium so you are working with much longer capture times, much longer lenses (for the same EFL) and hence have to use a lot more technical / technical skill.

Could an experienced photographer (say with 20 years medium format experience), switch relatively easily. Sure, but I would think to get up to critical quality it would take closer to a year than weeks. From 35mm it would be a steep curve. It's like going from riding a relatively fast scooter to driving a world rally car. It's a sit down and relearn your shooting process thing. One thing that did impress me with Lik is his ability to switch quickly between 35mm, medium format and large format quickly. They each require a different mindset and to be completely at home with each and to switch quickly between all three instantly is a sign that at least he has a high level of technical skill.

As to his originality, which besides his ego is I think the main thing you are commenting on. He is a 'classical' large format landscape photographer so in that respect it is fair game that he produces work like he does. I wouldn't describe his work as highly original, but accomplished it is for sure. He definitely has had a lot of opportunity and made the most of it.

Art Wolf if great, one of the few photographers I actually bought a book from, better than Lik, probably, significantly better? perhaps not.

Digital has made becoming a mediocre / good photographer a lot easier than film ever did. Like many things pushing further requires substantially more effort and skill the further you go. There are plenty of very well marketed 'superstar' wedding togs, yet when you look at their portfolio there are soft shots etc. One thing that struck me when looking at Lik's work is that not only is the average standard high but that there isn't filler, theres a very high standard of technical skill in all the shots.

I agree I would rather spend the money on visiting the places myself, but I doubt I could capture it better than Lik. As good as? I'd give it a shot but I doubt I would equal his work. My MF work is alright, saleable and competent but I honestly doubt I could walk into Antelope canyon and equal his work (cheating or not). I could probably manage something I would be happy to put on my wall, but gallery standard, I think I would be flattering myself If I ever figure out a cost effective way to ship e6 soup with the ormd restrictions on it I will probably look at a LF rig but having shot on one before even with years of MF experience it isn't a walk in the park

If anything he does deserve a little respect for actually getting out there and doing it. This is probably a side effect of having a superabundance of self confidence and drive, but I doubt he will get to 70 and be sinking a pint saying "i coulda done that but..".

Rodney Lough Jr is another tog in a similar vein.
http://www.rodneyloughjr.com/index.php?display=SearchDetails.html&CollectionID=&ImageKey=ANGELS&session_id=24124b7.2Fh8AS246WzRCMjb2FD2F7aSRtcSDQZ0
http://www.rodneyloughjr.com/index.php?display=SearchDetails.html&CollectionID=&ImageKey=CHASER&session_id=24124b7.2Fh8AS246WzRCMjb2FD2F7aSRtcSDQZ0

two similar images so the slot canyon ones Just curious but would you rate him better than Lik? (again not a loaded question, just curious).

agreed, Lik does manage to "be there", and his equipment is clearly top-notch. it should be, for what he makes. and yes, he definitely knows how to use it. but again, aside from the ability the equipment gives him to produce huge prints, he really doesn't do anything any good photographer couldn't, given the same opportunities, equipment and time.

is Lough better than Lik? hard to say... i've never heard of him. the small image samples of his work probably don't do it justice (in typical web sizes, heck, some of my stuff looks that good!). is Lough better as a photographer than Lik? hard to say. but i believe that once you reach a certain level of technical competence, the only real differentiating factor is style and subject matter, and whether you have the money, time, and sometimes fortitude to go where you have to go to get 'the shot'.

please don't get me wrong. Lik's a good photographer - very good - and he's taken some killer shots, especially his panoramics. but his ego is way too big for his camera bag. i look at his work, and i think, 'gee, i'd like to go there and shoot that'. i don't think, 'gee, i could never get a shot like that!' maybe i couldn't blow mine up to 40"x110" with the gear i have, but i have no place to put a print that size anyway, and neither do my customers. i'd much rather have my own shots of the places he goes - unfortunately, i don't have $200m in sales, and i can't afford the globe-trotting.

anyway, i'm not gonna worry about it. will i ever come close to Lik's success? not a chance. he's been at it for 25 years, and i'll be lucky if i'm even sucking air 25 years from now. but i'll go where i can go, do what i can do, and enjoy every minute of it.

nazquel

guys... great discussion.

when i saw the ad for this show i was immediately intrigued (as most landscape photographers would be). i have not seen the show but i did proceed to his website to see what all the fuss is about.

i would agree that his artistic qualities are on par with many serious amateurs / pros out there today. nothing he shot grasped me as extremely unique or as something i couldnt one day capture myself.

that said, i didnt consider the 'technical mastery' required to shoot large format such that prints can be blown up to those epic proportions.

in any case, i appreciate the insight you both provided on this subject.

Lemans

I bought his book "Spirit of America" because I wanted to see his shot of Indiana. As an Indiana native, his shot was disappointing to say the least. It was a shot of the Dunes National Lakeshore. A crummy water shot is NOT representative of the Indiana landscape. Every photographer I have showed this to all says the same thing, that was an easy no work required stop along the way to somewhere else cop out. The other disappointing this is, his shot of Niagra Falls is from the CANADA side! lmao Anyone who has ever been there knows it the second they see it. The American side from New York isn't nearly as impressive...

--
Lee
www.lemansstudios.com

JimKarczewski

He doesn't just shoot with a 6x17. A lot of the times you'll see him shooting with a Mamiya 645AF and I believe it's the 80MP Digital back he has on it. Just from there I believe he crops 1/3 of the frame to make his panos as I've yet to see him with a pano head.