How much reach do I need?

Harryb

Hey you'll,

One of the most frequent questions I get is from folks asking me to recommend the best lens for wildlife shooting. My normal response is the best lens is usually 200mm longer than the one you are using.

Actually you usually want to get the most reach that you can afford. The problems is that the long glass gets to a tad pricey.

Anyway I was hanging at the swamp today and I thought it would be cool to shoot the same scene at different focal lengths and demonstrate the difference at various lengths. To help me with this I enlisted the help of our senior Great Blue Heron, the Mayor aka Andy (because with both of them its all about the food). The Mayor/Andy is probably the most photographed GBH in the country because people don't bother him. He will stand and pose all day and never move from his spot. He was last seen here in the saga of the heron and the frog.

The pics are uncropped and have had virtually no post work done on them.

here's the scene at 80mm


135mm


200mm


300mm


at 400mm


500mm

700mm

DavidTO

Wow. Patient bird, or you're a wiz with those lens swaps!.

I'd say you need a longer lens!

Andy

i knew you didn't move around much harry but geez

i know, i know, stop with the old guy jokes.

ok i promise i will.

not.

DavidTO

andy wrote:

i knew you didn't move around much harry but geez

If he gets it long enough he could shoot from his couch while watching the game.

Nikolai

Great post, Harry!
700mm.. man... what do you need to get full-facial at this distance, 1200? :-)

I'd like to see a picture of YOU carrying all that prime glass you mentioned:D

Cheers!

Harryb

DavidTO wrote:

Wow. Patient bird, or you're a wiz with those lens swaps!.

I'd say you need a longer lens!

Actually a little of both David. I am a wiz at lens swaps but with this guy it wasn't needed. I was at the wetlands for 5 hours today and he stayed in the same spot the whole time. I think he was hoping that another frog would come by.

I am lusting after the 600mm f4 but my wife would kill me. I have this friend with an 800mm lens. Now that is reach. He shoots it with a 2x TC. He needs a tripod for the lens, a second tripod for the camera body, and triggers the shutter with a wireless remote.

Harryb

andy wrote:

i knew you didn't move around much harry but geez

i know, i know, stop with the old guy jokes.

ok i promise i will.

not.

No, please don't stop. If you stop with the old guy jokes then I would have to stop my food jokes, my jokes about your rapidly receding hairline, etc.

ian408

Usually, the first question I get is either "can you hand hold that?" or
"how big is that lens"

Nice examples.

Ian

jwear

a 80/700mm what a lens sign me up .the lens is very seldom long enough -you know the birds know how long the glass is and that is how far they stay away .very good len lesson Mr H now are you ready to sell that lousy 500:D

Markjay

That's very helpful, Harry.......
.... and nice of you to take the time to illustrate this to lowly photographers like me who only have a 300 mm lens (460 with 1.6). You're doing very well hand holding your camera with that lens on, judging from the sharpness of your images. Nice work.

Really though, my hat is off to your wife for being so supportive of you, that she's ok with your spending half the price of a car on a lens :-)

You've really progessed in your photography, Harry. Best regards,

Markjay

Osprey Whisperer

I keep telling you guys...........it's cheaper to learn how to sweet talk the birds or to purchase a pound of fresh fish. No sense in buying expensive glass. All I have to do is turn on some Al Green and open up the patio door. The birds walk right in for their photo shoot.

ian408

Bird Man Photographer wrote:

I keep telling you guys...........it's cheaper to learn how to sweet talk the birds or to purchase a pound of fresh fish. No sense in buying expensive glass. All I have to do is turn on some Al Green and open up the patio door. The birds walk right in for their photo shoot.

I find that a nice Barry White is enough for even the Jays

Ian

Khaos

See, now that's why I get jealous. It's not just that you have a 500, but that without cropping the heron is that close to you using just a 300. When I shoot herons with my 300 and no crop, there's a lot of space around them.:cry

Nice job of showing the telephoto differences.

Harryb

DavidTO wrote:

If he gets it long enough he could shoot from his couch while watching the game.

Now that's a goal worth shooting for.

Harryb

Nikolai wrote:

700mm.. man... what do you need to get full-facial at this distance, 1200? :-)

I'd like to see a picture of YOU carrying all that prime glass you mentioned:D

Cheers!

Hey Nik,

I only used two lenses for these pics, my 80-400VR and the 500mm and the 1.4 TC. I do wish I had a few more primes though. Love those primes.

bfjr

How much reach do you need ???
More then I have .................... :cry

Thusie

Great set of examples Harry, and I think that post should be right at the top of your 'how to' sticky along with the lenses you used. Also and simple as it might seem, did you hand hold any of those shots or use a tripod.

Super visual instruction, very cool.

Thanks

Harryb

jwear wrote:

a 80/700mm what a lens sign me up .the lens is very seldom long enough -you know the birds know how long the glass is and that is how far they stay away .very good len lesson Mr H now are you ready to sell that lousy 500:D

Hey Jeff,

No matter hw much reach you have you always want/need more. Ever since I got the 500mmlens the birds have moved further away from me. :cry

I'll be ready to sell the 500mm as soon as Linda oks the 6000mm. We are both in for a very,very,very,very long wait.

Harryb

Markjay wrote:

.... and nice of you to take the time to illustrate this to lowly photographers like me who only have a 300 mm lens (460 with 1.6). You're doing very well hand holding your camera with that lens on, judging from the sharpness of your images. Nice work.

Really though, my hat is off to your wife for being so supportive of you, that she's ok with your spending half the price of a car on a lens :-)

You've really progessed in your photography, Harry. Best regards,

Markjay

Hey Mark,

If I have progressed its because of the help and inspiration I get from folks like yourself.

Now if this thread has any point at all its to show what the different reaches can do to a shot. Any of the shots with some better composition would have been fine. The 80mm shot was the only one that caught the morehen running across the water in the background. At 500mm and 700mm I couldn't get the whole heron in the frame.

You don't have to spend a whole lot of $ to get more reach. The Bigma (Sigma 50-500) accepts TCs and produces fine results as Steve C. has demonstrated so many times. The Sigma and Nikon 80-400s are reasonably priced and give you excellent results. The 300mm f4 (Nikon and Canon) is also reasonably priced and with TCs can gives you reaches of 300mm, 420mm, 510mm, and 600mm. If one wants a real bargain lens that gives good results there's the Tokina 80-400.

I was lucky to get a used 500mm f4 at a reasonable price but there are lots of other options

Dani

yeah but how close were you to him???

Harryb

Dani wrote:

yeah but how close were you to him???

Good question Dani

Here's the scene at 45mm



I shot the pics from my driver's side tail light so I would say i was around 10 yards from the heron.

Harryb

Bird Man Photographer wrote:

I keep telling you guys...........it's cheaper to learn how to sweet talk the birds or to purchase a pound of fresh fish. No sense in buying expensive glass. All I have to do is turn on some Al Green and open up the patio door. The birds walk right in for their photo shoot.

I don't have to feed our birds thats why we have the frogs, turtles and fish. Al Green wouldn't cut it here our birds prefer Springstein.

Harryb

Khaos wrote:

See, now that's why I get jealous. It's not just that you have a 500, but that without cropping the heron is that close to you using just a 300. When I shoot herons with my 300 and no crop, there's a lot of space around them.

Nice job of showing the telephoto differences.

Thanks K. If you really want to get jealous heres that same heron during a shoot last year.

Harryb

bfjr wrote:

How much reach do you need ???
More then I have .................... :cry

By George, I think you got it!!!!

Harryb

Thusie wrote:

Great set of examples Harry, and I think that post should be right at the top of your 'how to' sticky along with the lenses you used. Also and simple as it might seem, did you hand hold any of those shots or use a tripod.

Super visual instruction, very cool.

Thanks

Thanks. I hope to get this in the stickies once I get the time to figure out how to do it.

I used two lenses for the set, my 80-400VR and my 500 with the 1.4TC. The shots up to 400 were handheld. The shots at 500mm and 700mm were with the 500mm lens supported by the Gitzo 1325 tripod and the Wimberly head.