Your recommended monitor??

Unbrok3n

I know this is a question that is asked a lot, but I am really stumped. I need to get a good monitor. I've been getting by with marginal ones for too long. I am a graphic design and a photographer and I use windows. Recently bought the new 24" apple led monitor only to find out there is literally no way to make it work on a pc. So...my quesion is, what is your recommendation for a good monitor that is at least 24" or 27' that has very good color? I can't find any leds with the caliber of the apple monitor. I appreciate any input. thanks!

Newsy

Unbrok3n wrote: »

I know this is a question that is asked a lot, but I am really stumped. I need to get a good monitor. I've been getting by with marginal ones for too long. I am a graphic design and a photographer and I use windows. Recently bought the new 24" apple led monitor only to find out there is literally no way to make it work on a pc. So...my quesion is, what is your recommendation for a good monitor that is at least 24" or 27' that has very good color? I can't find any leds with the caliber of the apple monitor. I appreciate any input. thanks!

Literally no way? what do you mean by that?

Most current PC's will accept an AMD/ATi video card and even the $75 units that offer the ATi "EyeFinity" feature will provide you with 3 output ports, usually 2 DVI and one DisplayPort or mini-DisplayPort, all with their own LUT's to hold the data from a calibrated ICC profile.

As to Nvidia video cards, I'm not familiar with their latest offerings but I would suspect you will find some models with a DisplayPort.

PS... look up some of my previous posts for info on monitors.

Unbrok3n

I'm using a sony laptop right now, and after doing a ton of research and looking up every adapter and card I could (and talking extensively with apple) there is no practical way to use the cinema display. Plus I would rather use a monitor catered to PC. It's ridiculous to me that Apple wouldn't make it easy for everyone to use their monitors...but oh well.
I'll check out your other posts. I know there are nice dell monitors out there, but I haven't seen any LEDs (not sure if I even need led...would appreciate input on that too if anyone has any)

Newsy

Unbrok3n wrote: »

I'm using a sony laptop right now, and after doing a ton of research and looking up every adapter and card I could (and talking extensively with apple) there is no practical way to use the cinema display. Plus I would rather use a monitor catered to PC. It's ridiculous to me that Apple wouldn't make it easy for everyone to use their monitors...but oh well.

Ah... a laptop. Not quite what I envisioned when you said you had a PC.

A number of recent laptops are shipping with a mini-DisplayPort as it is high bandwidth connector that allows for the the high resolution of 27" 2560x1440 to be driven by the GPU. Ditto for 30" 2560x1600 monitors. You need either a DisplayPort or a Dual Link DVI-D connector (it's a single connector, not two) for these resolutions.

If all you have is a analog VGA port on the Sony, then I believe you are limited to resolutions no higher than 1920x1200.

Something you should check for is a docking station for your laptop. Several manufacturers offer them for the high end or business class laptops where the docking station offers more ports for connecting to external devices.

I'll check out your other posts. I know there are nice dell monitors out there, but I haven't seen any LEDs (not sure if I even need led...would appreciate input on that too if anyone has any)

There are several good quality monitors available and most do NOT use a LED for the backlight.

Just to be clear.... with the Apple 24" or 27" Cinema Displays you have a monitor that is a LCD TFT panel monitor like every other except that the backlight it uses is a LED (just like in many of the new high intensity mini flashlights) rather than a more traditional CCFL backlight (a type of fluorescent tube).

The LED does not make for a better display. It does help with power reduction and for building a slimmer case to get that sexy style so many people want. However, LED's have their warts as well. They often have issues with what is called "flash lighting", clouding, and other uneven lighting effects. This is big issue in the the large screen LCD/LED HDTV market where people are demanding slim panels to hang on the walls.

Here's what you have in Apple Cinema Displays:
... 24" 1920x1200
... 27" 2560x1440
... H-IPS tft LCD panel
... W-LED back light (W = White)
... sRGB color gamut (more or less)screen
... glossy front screen
... 8bit RGB for 16.7 million color depth


Here's some current alternative 24" monitors:

HP ZR24w
... 24" 1920x1200
... IPS tft LCD panel
... CCFL back light
... 96/97% sRGB gamut
... matte front screen
... 8bit RGB for 16.7 million color depth


Dell U2410
... 24" 1920x1200
... IPS tft LCD panel
... W-CCFL back light (W = wide gamut)
... Wide Gamut - 100% sRGB and 100% AdobeRGB
... matte front screen
... pseudo 10bit RGB for over 1 billion color depth
... 12bit internal processing
... non-programmable internal LUT


ASUS PA246Q
... 24" 1920x1200
... IPS tft LCD panel
... W-CCFL back light (W = wide gamut)
... Wide Gamut - 100% sRGB and 100% AdobeRGB
... matte front screen
... pseudo 10bit RGB for over 1 billion color depth
... 12bit internal processing
... non-programmable internal LUT


NEC PA241w
... 24" 1920x1200
... IPS tft LCD panel
... W-CCFL back light (W = wide gamut)
... Wide Gamut - 100% sRGB and 100% AdobeRGB
... matte front screen
... pseudo 10bit RGB for over 1 billion color depth
... 14bit programmable internal LUT
... accessory SpectraView II calibration kit


Here are some 27" alternatives but I don't think you can use a 27" high resolution monitor with your laptop.

Dell U2711
... 27" 2560x1440
... IPS tft LCD panel
... W-CCFL back light (W = wide gamut)
... Wide Gamut - 100% sRGB and 100% AdobeRGB
... matte front screen
... pseudo 10bit RGB for over 1 billion color depth
... 12bit internal processing
... non-programmable internal LUT


NEC PA271w
... 27" 2560x1440
... IPS tft LCD panel
... W-CCFL back light (W = wide gamut)
... Wide Gamut - 100% sRGB and 100% AdobeRGB
... matte front screen
... pseudo 10bit RGB for over 1 billion color depth
... 14bit programmable internal LUT
... accessory SpectraView II calibration kit


Pending....

Samsung SA850
... 27" 2560x1440
... S-PLS tft LCD panel
... W-LED back light
... 100%+ sRGB gamut
... matte front screen
... 8bit RGB for 16.7 million color depth

.

arodney

... pseudo 10bit RGB for over 1 billion color depth

The idea of higher bit depth isn’t to produce more colors (the math provides this possibility but the reality is, its just math). The high bit depth is useful because one can adjust the display and get less banding, much like one can do with images when editing them (8-bits per color vs. 16-bits). The only physical control over a display is adjusting the luminance of the backlight. Otherwise, one adjust look up tables in the graphic system. When you do this, you are only dealing with 8-bits per color. More adjustments produce more banding in the previews. That’s not useful. Higher bit panels like the NEC apply the adjustments internally, in high bit. That is useful. Also useful is the ability to control this inside the panel itself, instead of using a look up table in the graphic system. This means the display can electrically set this, you the user don’t have to push buttons on the display as you calibrate. The SpectraView II line asks you to define a calibration target (Gamma, white point and luminance) and automatically adjusts the panel itself, in high bit to produce this calibration target. Its easier, faster and more precise than the other approaches; clicking on OSD buttons, applying the adjustments in less than high bit in the graphic system.

Unbrok3n

Thanks guys. That is a lot of good information.
The laptop is temporary, I plan on building a tower soon.
What should I try and have included as far as video cards/ports?

Newsy

Unbrok3n wrote: »

Thanks guys. That is a lot of good information.
The laptop is temporary, I plan on building a tower soon.
What should I try and have included as far as video cards/ports?

For photo editing you don't really need anything too high tech.

I'd suggest, at the least, something like an AMD/ATi 5570 1GB with the "Eyefinity" feature. These typically have 2 Dual Link DVI-D ports and 1 DisplayPort port but you can find variations of these. This will cost you about $75.

There are a number of photo hobbyists, including myself, who have gone to dual monitors rather a single larger monitor. Some use one good quality monitor for viewing the images and a less expensive gaming type LCD monitor for the 2nd monitor. The 2nd would be used to hold the tool menus with programs like Lightroom and ACDSee Pro which allows you to move sub-menus to the second monitor.

The ATi cards with the EyeFinity feature will have a dedicate LUT (Look Up Table) for each monitor port. This ensures that each of the 3 monitors can have its' own unique calibration and ICC profile.

I'm pretty sure NVidia has a similar feature in their better quality cards.

I strongly suggest acquiring either an Xrite i1 Display2 or a Datacolor Spyder3 Pro/Elite. I'd prefer the Spyder3 Elite if you go to a dual monitor system as it is much easier to use than the S3 Pro or Xrite i1D2 to calibrate and quite importantly, full control over setting the brightness of the monitors so that they match each other. Cheaper versions of these calibrators cannot set brightness easily or accurately.

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Unbrok3n

Thanks again for all the help and info newsy!

kdog

Newsy wrote: »

I'd prefer the Spyder3 Elite if you go to a dual monitor system as it is much easier to use than the S3 Pro or Xrite i1D2 to calibrate and quite importantly, full control over setting the brightness of the monitors so that they match each other.

Maybe that's a good thing? Not everybody is going to view your pictures on the same monitor as you, so why not have a little variety? I just calibrated a new laptop, and then calibrated my desktop computer with an Eye-one Display2 and compared them side-by-side. Voila, they have slightly different brightnesses. So my rationalization is that's a good thing.

Newsy

kdog wrote: »

Maybe that's a good thing? Not everybody is going to view your pictures on the same monitor as you, so why not have a little variety? I just calibrated a new laptop, and then calibrated my desktop computer with an Eye-one Display2 and compared them side-by-side. Voila, they have slightly different brightnesses. So my rationalization is that's a good thing.

If you're going to use the EyeFinity feature as it was intended, then you would want both or all three monitors to be exactly the same.

For myself, I have a monitor with an e-IPS tft panel next to a monitor with a S-PVA tft panel. I want the brightness on both exactly the same so that I can see the color/gamma difference betwen the tft panels caused by their inherent nature.

kdog

Yeah, using multiple screens I could see how you'd want them all the same. So I reduced the brightness of my laptop a bit and now it looks just like my desktop monitor. That was easy.

arodney

Its very, very difficult to make two dissimilar models of display to ‘perfectly’ match, especially if there is a gamut mismatch.

Unbrok3n

Newsy,
would a geforce 210 1gb pci express dual head hdmi do the trick?
I have no experience building PCs, so Im building it through an ebay company that I have used in the past. They dont have the option of what you recommended, or anything with "eyefinity"...do I really need that? I plan on getting a PC compatible monitor. Probably one of the ones you recommended.

Newsy

Unbrok3n wrote: »

Newsy,
would a geforce 210 1gb pci express dual head hdmi do the trick?
I have no experience building PCs, so Im building it through an ebay company that I have used in the past. They dont have the option of what you recommended, or anything with "eyefinity"...do I really need that? I plan on getting a PC compatible monitor. Probably one of the ones you recommended.

I'm not sure. I think the Nvidia feature that supports up to 3 distinct LUT's on one card is called "3D Vision Surround" or "3D Surround". I find their website very frustrating to dig information out of and have kinda given up mentioning their products simply because I can't be sure what it will support.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/3d-vision-surround-technology.html

http://www.nvidia.com/object/geforce_family.html

For one monitor the 210 will be fine.

As to your eBay company, are you telling me they don't build systems with ATi graphics cards? Because even a $75 USD ATi card, provided it supports the EyeFinity feature and lots of models do, supports 3 LUT's on one card. That is your best bang for the buck option for editing images with multiple monitors.


EyeFinity models....
ATi ... http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007709+600030349&QksAutoSuggestion=&ShowDeactivatedMark=False&Configurator=&IsNodeId=1&Subcategory=48&description=&Ntk=&CFG=&SpeTabStoreType=&AdvancedSearch=1&srchInDesc=eyefinity

AMD ... http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007709%20600100181&IsNodeId=1&srchInDesc=eyefinity&bop=And&ShowDeactivatedMark=False&Page=1&PageSize=20

fyi.... AMD bought ATi a year or so ago.


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Unbrok3n

They actually offer a lot more than I thought.
ATIs in my price range:

ATI Radeon HD 4350 512mb PCI express 16x dual head
ATI Radeon 5570 1gb PCI express 16x dual head HDMI

I mean, before my temporary laptop I had a PC that used 2 monitors and only had the stock dual port video card and never had any problems..

Are there any other suggestions with the PC itself that I should look for from a photographer's/designer's standpoint? It will be an i7, 8gb ram, etc.

Thanks so much again for all your helpful, fast, help