Ag-wpja

ShepsMom · June 15, 2011

About 2-3 month ago I submitted my website to WPJA just for giggles. I got email today that my work was accepted by artistic guild of WPJA, I'm excited but also wonder if membership worth it, it's $240/year. Any thoughts?

Darren Troy C · June 15, 2011

FWIW, you have a website....which means you have the ability to let potential clients see your work before they make a decision on who to hire. I wouldn't think the tag would sway "fence sitters" one direction or the other. It all comes down to results, I would imagine. Congrats on the acceptance, it's just not something I would be spending $240 on. That also, is a 2 cent opinion.

ShepsMom · June 15, 2011

Thanks Darren for .02 cent

I understand what you're saying, the "tag" may or may not benefit. I would like to hear more opinions from those who are part of the association or considering, before i do anything.

Darren Troy C · June 15, 2011

Well, either way, good luck with your venture if you choose to proceed. I just meant if the proof is there, the pudding will sell itself. You don't necessarily need Bill Cosby to do it.

ShepsMom · June 16, 2011

Thanks Darren, i went ahead and decided to give it a try.... will see how it goes

mmmatt · June 16, 2011

ShepsMom wrote: »

Thanks Darren for .02 cent
I understand what you're saying, the "tag" may or may not benefit. I would like to hear more opinions from those who are part of the association or considering, before i do anything.

The question is whether or not you will get inquiries through their site. I looked them over when I first started and there were not many photogs in my area that were a part of it. I would love to shoot 95% unposed events myself, but I'm not convinced there is enough market for that in my area to really commit to that type of style. That being said, it was my understanding that they were a lot more organic as far as processing and whatnot. I looked over your site and you have a ton of textures and other heavy processing methods so that must not be a concern to them. Your site is beautiful by the way. Lots of great moments captured, and i do like your processing style too.

Congratulations! That is a pretty exclusive little club over there and you should be honored you were asked to join. Look through their contest entries and you will be blown away at the quality of the work. You should join for a year and let us know how it goes!!!!!

ShepsMom · June 16, 2011

Thank you Matt, i originally submitted my site to WPJA but was rejected and instead was invited to join their Artistic guild. That is where processing comes to play, they look for "artsy" type photojournalists vs. pure photojournalism without heavy processing.
I absolutely do not rely on any referrals from this, it would be nice, but that's just a part of the game. I don't shoot 100% PJ, it's hard to accomplish, because clients do want mixture of both including portraiture, but i do go for the moment, that's my primary goal and style.
I will let you know what is accomplished by being a member for a year.

mmmatt · June 19, 2011

ShepsMom wrote: »

Thank you Matt, i originally submitted my site to WPJA but was rejected and instead was invited to join their Artistic guild. That is where processing comes to play, they look for "artsy" type photojournalists vs. pure photojournalism without heavy processing.
I absolutely do not rely on any referrals from this, it would be nice, but that's just a part of the game. I don't shoot 100% PJ, it's hard to accomplish, because clients do want mixture of both including portraiture, but i do go for the moment, that's my primary goal and style.
I will let you know what is accomplished by being a member for a year.

That answers a lot. I always thought of them as someone that I would have to redo my port for, but obviously that isn't really the case. Does the artistic guild still get you on their list of approved vendors? If so that is cool, and if not then I will say I don't see the point. I absolutely don't see a bride ever recognizing the wpja badge on your site and using that as a reason to hire you. For $240 it must be worth it to find out what happens though.

As for the pure photojournalism, I think it is simply a higher end clientele that wants that. And actually a modest segment of that higher end clientele. I don't know if committing to that style gets you those clients or if getting those clients allows you to commit to that style. Chicken vs egg... It seems a slippery slope, and I am constantly surprised by brides who want cheezy shots of the wedding party or that hold up signs that say "thank you" on their e-sessions. I would love to get out of that crap and simply cherry pick the moments that happen as they happen.

I've also notice at higher-end gatherings, you get a lot less of the people who loose their expression when they notice a camera is pointed their way... the more affluent people don't seem to care and just go on being their natural beautiful selves. I don't think pure PJ can ever work with most middle class clientele. I think at least a small aire of exclusivity, for shooter and client, is an important componant in being a really good. pure pj wedding shooter.

ShepsMom · June 19, 2011

Matt, on my website, i do stress that i go for the moment and don't pose, and that's what i want do to, however, i do let them know that i will dedicate time for formal portraits so the client wont get completely turned off. I also offer "Day after" session to spend more time with b&g for more creative portraits.

The ones who want cheesy photos are not my target market, when girls call me, they call me because they don't want cheesy poses, there are not many of them, but they are out there, you just have to find them.

On occasion, i scout bridal boards and i see what they talk about, and how they don't like cheesy photos, I'm sure they are talking about those photos where people just staring at the camera with no emotions lol

I was browsing through WPJA site and i've noticed that some members belong to both, the regular PJ and AG, so i'm wondering how that works.

W.W. Webster · June 19, 2011

ShepsMom wrote: »

Any thoughts?

How discriminating will any commercial organisation be in 'accepting' customers who will pay it $240pa in perpetuity?

mmmatt · June 20, 2011

ShepsMom wrote: »

Matt, on my website, i do stress that i go for the moment and don't pose, and that's what i want do to, however, i do let them know that i will dedicate time for formal portraits so the client wont get completely turned off. I also offer "Day after" session to spend more time with b&g for more creative portraits.

The ones who want cheesy photos are not my target market, when girls call me, they call me because they don't want cheesy poses, there are not many of them, but they are out there, you just have to find them.
On occasion, i scout bridal boards and i see what they talk about, and how they don't like cheesy photos, I'm sure they are talking about those photos where people just staring at the camera with no emotions lol

I was browsing through WPJA site and i've noticed that some members belong to both, the regular PJ and AG, so i'm wondering how that works.

Yeah, I don't show any of that stuff on my site and don't ever offer it to my brides. Here in the land of beer and cheese it is often times expected though. My wedding last Saturday we had about 2 hrs for formals so the b&g decided to hit a couple of bars on the way to formals and I had less than 30 minutes to do my thing! Whatever! It is their day right! They weren't high end clients, but for a lot of people in my neck, especially young couples, that is just what you do at a wedding. I did manage to drag them out after dark for some more formals and that worked out well.

ShepsMom · June 20, 2011

W.W. Webster wrote: »

How discriminating will any commercial organisation be in 'accepting' customers who will pay it $240pa in perpetuity?

Good questions W.W.

ShepsMom · June 20, 2011

mmmatt wrote: »

Yeah, I don't show any of that stuff on my site and don't ever offer it to my brides. Here in the land of beer and cheese it is often times expected though. My wedding last Saturday we had about 2 hrs for formals so the b&g decided to hit a couple of bars on the way to formals and I had less than 30 minutes to do my thing! Whatever! It is their day right! They weren't high end clients, but for a lot of people in my neck, especially young couples, that is just what you do at a wedding. I did manage to drag them out after dark for some more formals and that worked out well.

I don't know where you are, but i'm in destination weddings area, i'm sick and tired of beach weddings, they are short, hot, and complete PITA. The budgets for those are non-existing unless they get into higher-end venues. While i'm not a fan of "chandeliers" or overly traditional stuff, i'll have to take them, as long as myself and my client happy with a price tag it's a game! You've to do what you've got to do, and if your bar-hopping brides paying you to hop alone, who cares?

!!

mmmatt · June 21, 2011

ShepsMom wrote: »

I don't know where you are, but i'm in destination weddings area, i'm sick and tired of beach weddings, they are short, hot, and complete PITA. The budgets for those are non-existing unless they get into higher-end venues. While i'm not a fan of "chandeliers" or overly traditional stuff, i'll have to take them, as long as myself and my client happy with a price tag it's a game! You've to do what you've got to do, and if your bar-hopping brides paying you to hop alone, who cares? !!

Yeah... I get it! Never really thought about how a beach wedding could be low-end, but that does make sense! I'm in Wisconsin btw... the home of beer and cheese. I only do the bar hopping thing once or twice a year, but it is often only not done because of time. And yes I am happy to take the check, so nbd. My goal however is to find the niche above the bar hopping brides, but I'm not sure where that pricepoint is yet or what specifically that bride wants. That is the basics of marketing and why the wpja is of interest to me. Ideally you want to set your marketing around a specific type of bride. I'm just not convinced that there are enough of them for me to tap into that market and still eat.

ShepsMom · June 21, 2011

Matt, there is a great book i've read called "Book yourself solid" by Michael Port. It gives you great insights and ideas on how to determine your target market and how to market to those people. You can find it on Amazon, or maybe even a library. It's not specific to weddings or photography, but it covers a lot on the subject of your target marketing, very good read, check it out.

Ag-wpja

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