What am I doing wrong?

LRussoPhoto

Went to a local car show this past weekend and although most of my photos came out pretty good I am having a hard time using fill flash. Here are 2 photos both shooting pretty much into the sun which was high in the skiy at the time. I saw that when I took the one with out the flash there were alot of shadows so I popped up the flash. Well that is my result, way too bright, why? Should I have dialed down exp comp on the flash? How would I know how far down to go? Would I take a test shot first and adjust accourdingly or is there a meter reading I can use?

Hackbone

When you're outside there are alot of variables to contend with and each one will affect your exposure differently. Bright bkg, dark bkg, bright clothing, dark clothing etc. If you're in the same spot all day you can set it once and go but as you change areas the background, clothing etc will affect your exposure. You really need to check your view finder or histogram often. A good starting point is to set your camera to auto and dial your flash down about a stop to start and adjust from there. If you don't want to use auto but instead manual, you can read the exposure off your hand if it and the subject are in the same lighting conditions and then adjust the flash to your satisfaction.

Rember when using flash it is controled by f stop and the background is controlled by shutter speed.

In your second photo even the bkg is overexposed then you hit the subjects with more light. Basically you gotta chimp the finder.

Scott_Quier

I've had the most success with fill-flash by shooting with the camera in full manual mode. Set your exposure for the background and set your flash to illuminate your subjects.

I like to slightly under-expose the background a bit (1/2 stop or so) - seems to help focus viewer attention on the subjects.

With my camera and flash, I've found that the camera is a bit stupid. If I set the flash exposure compensation to 0, I get over-exposed subjects. So, I have to set the FEC to about 1/2 stop under-exposed as well.

In bright sun, you're going to have to shoot in High-Speed Shutter Sync mode because your shutter speed will have to be well above your x-sync speed or you'll have to stop down your lens so much (see Charle's comment about lens aperture controlling flash exposure) you'll never realize any benefit from the flash.

In your #2 shot, I think what happened is that when you turned on your flash, the camera set the shutter speed to it's max x-sync speed and that was a couple or three stops too slow - hence the over-exposure.

And, like Charles says, watch your histogram.

LRussoPhoto

Scott_Quier wrote: »

I've had the most success with fill-flash by shooting with the camera in full manual mode. Set your exposure for the background and set your flash to illuminate your subjects.

I like to slightly under-expose the background a bit (1/2 stop or so) - seems to help focus viewer attention on the subjects.

With my camera and flash, I've found that the camera is a bit stupid. If I set the flash exposure compensation to 0, I get over-exposed subjects. So, I have to set the FEC to about 1/2 stop under-exposed as well.

In bright sun, you're going to have to shoot in High-Speed Shutter Sync mode because your shutter speed will have to be well above your x-sync speed or you'll have to stop down your lens so much (see Charle's comment about lens aperture controlling flash exposure) you'll never realize any benefit from the flash.

In your #2 shot, I think what happened is that when you turned on your flash, the camera set the shutter speed to it's max x-sync speed and that was a couple or three stops too slow - hence the over-exposure.

And, like Charles says, watch your histogram.

Ok, set my exposure to the backround I can do, how do I set the flash to illuminate the subject? Trial and error? Is this what you mean by fec 1/2 stop down?
I have read in some tutorials about fill flash that the Nikon iTTL is so easy, just pop up the flash and the camera does the rest, not rue I would assume?

With the high speed sync, that means I'd have to use my sb900 because the high speed sync doesnt work with the pop up flash correct?

Now when you say stop DOWN my lens you mean higher # aperture right? Just to understand the concept that means that the smaller the aperture opening the less ambient light is coming in with the flash, that it will darken the image right?

In your comment about shot 2 your saying what might have worked would have been to use ec and dial down 2-3 stops on the exposure not the flash? Just trying to grasp these concept's, lol.

Scott_Quier

QuadRacer041 wrote: »

Ok, set my exposure to the backround I can do, how do I set the flash to illuminate the subject? Trial and error? Is this what you mean by fec 1/2 stop down?
I have read in some tutorials about fill flash that the Nikon iTTL is so easy, just pop up the flash and the camera does the rest, not rue I would assume?

Trial and error - yup. After a while and some practice, you will be better able to characterize the shot and just "know" what needs to be done re: the flash.

QuadRacer041 wrote: »

With the high speed sync, that means I'd have to use my sb900 because the high speed sync doesnt work with the pop up flash correct?

I'm not really all that conversant with Nikon, but if your pop-up doesn't support HSS (and I suspect you're right about that), then yes - you will need to use a hotshoe mounted/connected flash .... or, maybe, Commander Mde - not sure about that last part.

QuadRacer041 wrote: »

Now when you say stop DOWN my lens you mean higher # aperture right? Just to understand the concept that means that the smaller the aperture opening the less ambient light is coming in with the flash, that it will darken the image right?

Larger aperture number - smaller aperture, less light, darker image ... and the harder your flash will have to work to provide the requested amount of light.

QuadRacer041 wrote: »

In your comment about shot 2 your saying what might have worked would have been to use ec and dial down 2-3 stops on the exposure not the flash? Just trying to grasp these concept's, lol.

No, what I said was that your camera over-exposed the background by a couple or three stops - shutter was too slow. To correct, I would be shooting in manual mode, setting the ISO, shutter speed, and aperture to acquire a background exposure that was just a tiny bit under-exposed - about 1/2 stop. Then I would have set the power of the flash to "correctly" expose the subject. To get the background exposure, just move the camera a tiny bit to see the background and dial in the desired exposure. To get the flash setting, that's practice, experience with your equipment, and/or a couple of shots (changing the flash power ... with Canon equipment this would be the flash exposure compensation setting ... as you go) until you get one you like. As you may have guessed, the more your practice, the easier it will be to dial in the required FEC.

But, if you want to let the camera computer do some of the lifting, I would set the camera to aperture priority, set the desired ISO and aperture, set the EC to about 1/2 under, and do the trial and error thing with the FEC. The problem with this is that you may be applying EC against the exposure values for your subject as computed by the camera rather than for the background. You would have to get a reading, perform an exposure lock, re-compose, and trigger the shutter. Yeah, manual mode is just easier if you have the time.

Something to note - because of the way HSS works, your effective flash distance will be greatly diminished ... sufficient for shots like your's above, but there it is. Research and play with it and you'll see what I mean. Search on DGrin for a post by Ziggy about HSS (don't remember the key words that will work, but you'll find it) - he's posted a really good discussion about HSS and the way it works.

jasonstone

i've been in a similar situation before and yeah always found that manual and flash on TTL auto (nikon) worked

however I do wish there was some way that I could reliably, without stuffing around with too much flash exposure compensation, just fire off a shot an an opportune moment and get the shot without adjusting settings.

I always find that for those candid shots people aren't interested in hanging around for a minute while you get your settings rights

Course the answer is just to be quicker with your settings but if you've just gone from shooting a car in the shade you like won't have the right setting in the camera for such a portrait "snap"

Keep in mind that Canon - when you set the exposure compensation - will adjust ONLY the exposure.
For Nikon it will adjust the exposure AND the flash exposure. So you might need to have -2EV on the camera and then +2EV on the flash - course it depends on the situation but keep that in mind.... on Nikon it's a universal adjustment...

aj986s

I looked at the EXIF info on both your pics. Saw that you were shooting in Aperature Priority. The first pic was at f5.3, and the camera set the shutter at 1/1000. However, the next pic was shot at f4.8, but the shutter speed was 1/200. That likely explains the overexposure. I suspect the camera set itself to a shutter speed for proper flash sync, but because you were in Aperature mode, you ended up too wide open for the shutter speed.

As mentioned, manual setting will help you get all the numbers correct. However, I've had good results using Program mode, too. If the flash pops up, the aperature and shutter speeds will adjust appropriately. FWIW, whenever I do use some fill-flash (which unfortunately isn't often enough......) I set flash exposure compensation to be slightly under.

Bryce Wilson

You are correct in the fact that the on camera flash will not work with FP (high speed) sync.

I started playing with high speed sync in bright sunlight with my D700 about a month ago. Here is what has worked best for me so far.

Enable the high sync flash. On the d700 it's under e1 and I set it to FP Auto. Not sure about the way to do it for the 90. For the flash (I have a SB800 but I'm sure your 900 will work about the same) I use it off camera with the camera set to commander mode. In the cameras commander settings, I set the built in to -- and the off camera setting to TTL. Next set up your SB900 to its remote option.

With the camera set to M mode, in REALLY bright sunlight, I use somewhere between 1/2000 and 1/4000ss depending on just how bright things are. You can pretty much set the f stop almost anywhere because in TTL the flash/camera will do most of the adjustments for your subject. You may have to adjust EC a bit, but the camera has been pretty close to right for me.

Things I have found playing with this.

Because battling the sun with a small flash is hard to do, you need to be somewhat close to the subjects with the flash.

Recycle times are Looooong because the flash pretty much dumps everything it has when you take a shot.

The method doesn't lend itself to candid work, at least for me, so I use it only for posed pictures.

Hope that helped a bit.

Qarik

for fill flash..just set your flash to TTL at -2eV or 3eV depending on how bright the sun is and expose for the backgrouns. that's it..super easy. Remember fill flash is intended to simply lift some shadows from your subject. If you are need to go more then that..then it is not fill anymore and it is becoming your primary light source which has it own rules.

LRussoPhoto

Great info, thank you all.

Jason, what do you mean by this:Keep in mind that Canon - when you set the exposure compensation - will adjust ONLY the exposure.
For Nikon it will adjust the exposure AND the flash exposure. So you might need to have -2EV on the camera and then +2EV on the flash - course it depends on the situation but keep that in mind.... on Nikon it's a universal adjustment...

Are you saying that if I choose a -2ev on exposure it will also -2ev the flash exposure as well? Because when I do that it only show's the camera exposure as -2 not the flash exposure.

jasonstone

with the canon when you set the exposure compensation to -2EV then it will reduce the shutter/aperture by -2EV, however the flash output won't be adjusted because of the -2EV exposure compensation. It will only get adjusted if you set the flash exposure compensation which is a seperate setting.

On the Nikon if you set -2EV exposure compensation it will adjust the shutter/aperture to get -2EV AND it will reduce the flash output by -2EV - so it's a universal adjustment.
If you wanted to reduce the background exposure by -2EV but keep the flash exposure the same then you'd likely have to dial in some +EV on the flash (maybe not the full 2EV) to compensation for the -2EV exposure compensation on the body

I remember seeing a video on this somewhere which was really useful... Adorama TV with Mark Wallace I think... trying to find it again for you... hmmm no luck... it's out there somewhere....

edit: I did find this though - from http://www.timothyarmes.com/blog/2011/01/canon-vs-nikon-flash-systems-revisited/

Ambiant vs. Flash control

One of the biggest differences concerns how the two systems give you control over the ambient vs. the flash exposure.

The Canon system completely separates the two exposures, such that any changes made using the exposure compensation dial will only alter the shutter speed/aperture combination – the flash exposure is not altered. To change the flash exposure the user must use the Flash Exposure Compensation (FEC) setting.

Nikon have taken another approach. The camera’s exposure compensation dial affects the whole image, so any changes made will affect both the “background” ambient and the flash exposure simultaneously. The FEC setting, on the other hand, will only affect the flash.

Bumping up or down the background exposure relative to the flash exposure is something that I do all the time. With Canon, the separation of these controls makes this very easy. With the Nikon system such a manipulation would possibly require a change to the global exposure (ambient light and flash) followed by a further change to the flash exposure to put it back where it was before.

I say “possibly” because personally I work with the camera in manual mode 95% of the time. In this case one can therefore continue to control the ambient exposure by adjusting the shutter speed and aperture, and then use either the FEC or standard exposure compensation to adjust the flash.

Hope that helps clear it up a bit

QuadRacer041 wrote: »

Great info, thank you all.

Jason, what do you mean by this:Keep in mind that Canon - when you set the exposure compensation - will adjust ONLY the exposure.
For Nikon it will adjust the exposure AND the flash exposure. So you might need to have -2EV on the camera and then +2EV on the flash - course it depends on the situation but keep that in mind.... on Nikon it's a universal adjustment...

Are you saying that if I choose a -2ev on exposure it will also -2ev the flash exposure as well? Because when I do that it only show's the camera exposure as -2 not the flash exposure.<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

zoomer

Just bring the exposure up on 1 a bit, no need for flash, especially on camera fill.
If you feel you must, put it on P (or Auto) and adjust via exposure compensation...easy and quick.
Keep it simple.

Photometric

Bryce Wilson wrote: »

You are correct in the fact that the on camera flash will not work with FP (high speed) sync.

I started playing with high speed sync in bright sunlight with my D700 about a month ago. Here is what has worked best for me so far.

Enable the high sync flash. On the d700 it's under e1 and I set it to FP Auto. Not sure about the way to do it for the 90. For the flash (I have a SB800 but I'm sure your 900 will work about the same) I use it off camera with the camera set to commander mode. In the cameras commander settings, I set the built in to -- and the off camera setting to TTL. Next set up your SB900 to its remote option.

With the camera set to M mode, in REALLY bright sunlight, I use somewhere between 1/2000 and 1/4000ss depending on just how bright things are. You can pretty much set the f stop almost anywhere because in TTL the flash/camera will do most of the adjustments for your subject. You may have to adjust EC a bit, but the camera has been pretty close to right for me.

Things I have found playing with this.

Because battling the sun with a small flash is hard to do, you need to be somewhat close to the subjects with the flash.

Recycle times are Looooong because the flash pretty much dumps everything it has when you take a shot.

The method doesn't lend itself to candid work, at least for me, so I use it only for posed pictures.

Hope that helped a bit.

I would agree on working in M(anual) mode....you have the ability to get the exposure right. Program mode is good but sometimes gets fooled, so you are best served in getting used to manual mode.