what would you do?

apexonephoto

Hi guys,

I've been around here for a few years now. I shoot motorsports photography at a dirt track in Canada. I have been the track photographer since late 2006, when nobody else wanted to do the job. I have been there every single night of racing. The track pays me to use my photos, and I sell photos to the drivers and their families. I had a teenager come last year who wants to learn photography, a relative of the track promoter. She gave up rather fast. At most racetracks there is somewhat of an unwritten rule that you don't sell photos at someone else's racetrack.

There isn't really a lot of cars, maybe 50-60 of which 30-35 buy photos regularly and some guys never do. I work my tail off, have a day job as it's seasonal and really enjoy it. I spend my Sunday's working on photos to ensure they are up the next day. I don't have any issues with anyone at the racetrack and still like the job.

So this year we have a new racer whose wife happens to be a "photographer". The first couple weeks they came out, she brought her camera and posted some stuff to Facebook a few days after the race. This week she has them posted on her fan page, and with image numbers under each photo. Then she posts a price list and how to contact her. The season is half over, and a lot of the good sales are already over. Lots of drivers buy stuff when there cars are nice and clean at the beginning of the season.

Sorry to ramble. I do post stuff online from other racetracks as well, and people buy my stuff off of Smugmug quite routinely. I never go to racetracks fanpage to advertise, or physically sell photos at another racetrack. There really isn't enough people at this one track to support two photographers. I haven't said anything to the promoters or to her. I'm not sure how I should feel about this. I would just like to hear some thoughts on this.

Angelo

say something NOW!

Demian

If I'm understanding it correctly, you don't have any exclusive agreement with the track, but you feel entitled to exclusivity because you were there first. If this is the situation, I think she's fully within her rights to take photos and sell them. I think it's a risky mindset to feel we're owed a living by anyone. If you shoot because you enjoy it, then it doesn't matter. But if you shoot for income and the market becomes too saturated, you need to find a niche or get out.

Anywho, assuming you don't have any legal rights to exclusivity, I don't think complaining will accomplish much. The promoters won't care (they're not going to hassle the racers and the crowd on your behalf, especially when they have a less difficult photographer available). And if you talk to the woman, she might stop... but then you risk starting rumors about how you tried to intimidate a poor little woman out of taking pictures (which could potentially hurt more than the competition.)


Edit: I probably should answer the question and say what I WOULD do. If I enjoyed the races, I'd just keep shooting and hopefully compete on quality. If it was an income issue, I'd see how much she affected sales. If mine dropped too much, I'd try to negotiate commercial exclusivity with the track. Failing that, move on to greener pastures.

Good luck.

Sam

Angelo wrote: »

say something NOW!

Say what?

Hi lady, I was here first and if you take photos and sell them I will lose money so move on.

James says he shoots at other tracks and sells his images. Why can't someone else shoot at this track and sell images?

We also need to know what terms and policies exist at "his" track. Has the track forbidden other professional photographers? Is there anything in writing and posted at the track? Does Steven have any special access?

While I do understand Stevens feelings on this, it's called free enterprise and competition. It sucks when it impacts us negatively, but the consequences would be far worse if it were somehow eliminated.

Oh and please note: I think Steven has some really nice images and I can see why he would be successful selling them.

If Steven keeps providing a superior product she may just fade away.

Sam

moose135

Absolutely talk to the promoters about this! Do you have any sort of agreement with them that you are the exclusive track photographer? If you do, it will certainly help your case, although it sounds like you sort of fell into that role without anything formal. Even without it, you should go to the promoters.

quark

Maybe you could work together? You could explain your business model and experience and talk about the best way to combine efforts. For example if you put your work and her work in one location/portfolio the audience is not split, and you will both probably get more sales. You could come up with a simple system of numbers so you know which photographers prints sell, split up the money, and then you can suggest she focus on marketing if that is what she is good at.

She probably won't stay interested in the long run once she gets a feel for the limited profits. If she does stay interested you can cover multiple locations at the event and maybe start to charge the organizers if your team is providing amazing photography breadth.

I find if photographers can work through the territorial thing and focus on great event coverage it usually works out. When someone with an awesome camera comes to a wedding I am photographing rather than get annoyed I usually introduce myself and then suggest they sit near the front in the ceremony to catch any amazing shots I miss. This makes them feel valued and keeps them out of my way.

apexonephoto

First off, thanks to everyone for responding. I really enjoy seeing other photographers points of view. I do have an agreement with the track to be the only one selling photos. We all know that you can't prevent someone from selling them outside of the facility. Some of the racers don't see quality as a strong point, some do. These same racers often don't buy too many photos. I may have had a knee jerk reaction without actually doing anything yet, just thought I would bring it up around some like minded people. She shoots into the sun quite a lot, I believe she has an F4-5.6 lens at a poorly lit track which eliminates any shots at night and I'm confident in my abilities.

Demian, I like your comment about competing on quality, and may have just needed little fire to get me to pick up on my game! I actually believe I am the "less difficult" person, but I understand your point. They have bigger things to worry about. I know I enjoy the money, I also miss out on a lot of very large races at many other racetracks in the area since I "work" on Saturday's. There is really no other greener pastures, I have been lucky in that no one else has wanted to shoot at this track. The territorial part of it, just has me feeling like I am being robbed!

I have had the mentality that I enjoy racing more then photography. I have also done some internal complaining about it being a job. Maybe I should look at reevaluating what I really want to do.

I am the only photographer who shoots our victory lane, and so far she seems a little hesitant to go to certain areas of the track. I may lose a little in sales, and she may just turn out to be a flash in the pan. There is no signs forbidding other photographers. I am going to mention to the promoters that I am still committed to the track.

Thanks all

VayCayMom

She might not have a clue as to the professional aspects of this situation, and she might be really embarrassed to find out she has trampled over someone a bit. bow I would speak to the promoter and then maybe find a way to clue her in without totally embarrassing her. Do you have a card that connects you with the track? Perhaps you could introduce yourself, drop a hint... " oh did you get permission to shot racers other than your husband from the track promoter?"