Michelle - Various Looks

Bilsen · July 21, 2011

From a shoot last month with Michelle, an interesting combination of Italian/Native American. She aced some very different concepts all on the same day. There are also tow outrageous bikini sets that I'll post separately.

As always, Click the first image for her full gallery.

1. Native look

2.

3. Most Guys Agree

4. Before the Club

5. APRES Club

6. That Last Drink Did it

Qarik · July 21, 2011

John Galt,

I have been looking at your posts for a long time. This post is not neccessarily about the images in this post but in general. You have access to some BEAUTIFUL women! It makes me jealous! where do you get all these girls?

Anyway I want to tread lightly here because this may come across as unasked for criticism..1st of all your images are no doubt sound images, they are in focus, exposed decently, processed decently, and posing is generally okay. But nothing ever makes me go WOW! There is SO much potential with these gorgeous women! I am waiting for your the post that really gives some dramatic lighting or processing or some wide angle with your subject posed with a beautiful background. etc something that floors me. I always look.. but it just seems I get the same in focus, decently exposed, decently processed images. It's like having a sirloin steak all the time..good stuff..but where is the filet mignon? It appears to me that you have the photo chops to do it!

Oh well, flame away. I realize this is a bit out of sorts.

Bilsen · July 21, 2011

Qarik,

You'll get no flames from me and I would hope from anyone else. The criticism is valid from the standpoint of photography as an art form and is obviously sincere. Lemme splain sumting.

When I was a musician, I would tell people I was not an artist. I was a technician. I could listen to a song twice and play it note for note BUT it would never occur to me to write the song.

As a photographer it's much the same. I do not have a particularly artistic eye. I have a decent feel for natural light, an in depth knowledge of my equipment, a decent way of getting models to relax and a fair idea of what a model or her agency want in a commercial portfolio. My stuff is on several comp cards and agency web ports and even two print look books. That's about as good as it's ever gonna get for my hobbyist skills. Again, you're looking for an artist and what you got is a technician.

With that said, I'm pretty satisfied to be where I am, limited as that may be. After all, the girls ARE quite beautiful and they ask me to take their picture. I could do a lot worse.

This isn't Michelle but Alina is about as dramatic as I get. See if this goes WOW for you. If not, I just may not be that guy.

Thanks again for your comments.

briandelion · July 21, 2011

Wow, two very honest, thoughtful comments. That's what I love about this website, there's always much to learn, not just about photography.

Alex81 · July 22, 2011

JohnGalt_ny wrote: »

Qarik,

You'll get no flames from me and I would hope from anyone else. The criticism is valid from the standpoint of photography as an art form and is obviously sincere. Lemme splain sumting.

When I was a musician, I would tell people I was not an artist. I was a technician. I could listen to a song twice and play it note for note BUT it would never occur to me to write the song.

As a photographer it's much the same. I do not have a particularly artistic eye. I have a decent feel for natural light, an in depth knowledge of my equipment, a decent way of getting models to relax and a fair idea of what a model or her agency want in a commercial portfolio. My stuff is on several comp cards and agency web ports and even two print look books. That's about as good as it's ever gonna get for my hobbyist skills. Again, you're looking for an artist and what you got is a technician.

With that said, I'm pretty satisfied to be where I am, limited as that may be. After all, the girls ARE quite beautiful and they ask me to take their picture. I could do a lot worse.

This isn't Michelle but Alina is about as dramatic as I get. See if this goes WOW for you. If not, I just may not be that guy.

Thanks again for your comments.

I WOW'd with this pic, although I do wish you didn't cut her hands at the bottom. Still one of the best "model" pic I've seen here.

As for the photos that started this thread, not a fan. Number 3 is the only one that caught my interest but as mentioned, it could've and should've been better.

Bilsen · July 22, 2011

Thanks Alex. We can be droogs now.

A question though. What, in your opinion, would make # 3 "better"? I'll always listen.

Hackbone · July 22, 2011

John, as a technician you've got it. I think your posing issues are that you are a guy and tend to pose ladies as a guy thinks they should look. Unfortunately ladies think wayyyyy different. That lesson was taught to me by a lady once and I think she hit the nail on the head. Try to investigate some lady photographers websites and build a "want to do file" then pick some from there and then even modify to you likes. Please keep posting because I do get ideas from you.

Hackbone · July 22, 2011

#3 just has too many areas detracting from her. Bright foreground, bright mid road area, very bright sign, bright left area of photo and her right arm is distorted in that pose. Too many vertical lines pointing the viewer to look up not over. Dont' forget that bright areas come to your eye first and the darker areas recede. Hope that helps.

Bilsen · July 22, 2011

Charles, thank you A TON for both sets of comments. You make a really interesting point about my "guy's perspective" in directing of the models. I'll definitely go looking for some women commercial photographers.

AS for # 3, you're correct in everything you say BUT this shot was an attempt to use the sign as humor and we couldn't exactly dig it up and move it. It's one of those "take what you get" settings.

Perhaps a different crop would be more pleasing. I didn't post it because I don't like her expression all that much.
See what you think.

Hackbone · July 22, 2011

Better yes and like her arm much better. Like you said it is one of those "you get what you got shots." As long as it fills the purpose it is fine.

divamum · July 22, 2011

John, as a technician you've got it. I think your posing issues are that you are a guy and tend to pose ladies as a guy thinks they should look. Unfortunately ladies think wayyyyy different.

I saw this thread late last yesterday and was thinking all evening of how to say what I wanted, and Charles has NAILED it. I don't think it's only a case of "talk to women photographers about how to pose" - although of course that kind of technical assistance can be invaluable - but I think it may run a little deeper than that so, in the spirit of constructive honesty which makes up this thread (bravi tutti!) I offer my opinion as a woman....

Given that most of your images are a bit sultry in mood, I think it's a fair question to ask: what makes "sexy"? It's not "pushing breasts together with arms" or "arching back", or "pouting", or "torn clothing". While those can be provocative/attractive - and let's face it, these are styles and techniques which are regularly used to float mens' boats - "sexy" is LOADS more than that. You do have very beautiful models to work with, but to bring out their very best, that can't just be "pretty girls with great bodies". They're WOMEN. What makes each of one them tick? What makes her smile? What look does she get in her eyes which makes you think naughty thoughts and have to refocus your mind on the shoot at hand?

I'm NOT suggesting that you need to be inappropriate or in some other way adopt a kind of "method acting" sexy, but I think the photographers who elicit the most out of their subjects also tend to keep the energy and dialog going so that a personality shines through (no matter what the poses); sure, as the photographer you're in charge, but even when a subject needs a lot of guidance, there can still be an internal spirit of "collabaration" from the photographer, and I think when there's that, you'll start to see more of the "WOW".

Thanks to John for taking the comments in the spirit they were meant and allowing this kind off valuable discussion

ETA: It's interesting that you don't like the expression in 9, the repost -that's actually the one where I felt like I was seeing a bit of personality shining through.

Alex81 · July 22, 2011

JohnGalt_ny wrote: »

Thanks Alex. We can be droogs now.

A question though. What, in your opinion, would make # 3 "better"? I'll always listen.

These are my two cents and could be very wrong.

If I had been in the same setting I would've looked for something for her to stand on so that her head isn't under the arrow, and would've taken the shot from the left hand side, standing almost next to the sign.

The sign and humour would still be there, but the lines would draw your attention to the model instead of to the sign.

Bilsen · July 22, 2011

DivaMum - your comments are the WOW in this thread.

In retrospect, I like her expression more than I did originally.

Now I have a favor to ask you. Go take a look at the entire gallery (http:bilsen.zenfolio.com/michellep) and see if you find the expressions and personality you are discussing. Michelle and I had a great time throughout the day and I'd be curious if that comes through to you. Maybe I just picked the wrong frames to post??

Alex - Thanks for the clarification. You may very well be correct. Now go see her bikini thread posted this AM and see what you think.

TenThirteen · July 22, 2011

This thread is great, what a great forum we have here :-)

Qarik · July 22, 2011

Okay this is verging on very good here! nice capture

TenThirteen · July 22, 2011

I agree, I love the above shot.

Bryce Wilson · July 22, 2011

Hack and Diva make very good points. I do think that a person has to keep the end user in mind though. If the purpose of a shoot is to produce images that will appeal to 18 to 40 year old men, I would think that the poses would and should be different than if the images are directed to the 25 to 40 year old female crowd.

My personal opinions of the images:

I really don't care much for number 1. The pose coupled with the pattern in the dress makes here body/shoulders look really broad.

2. The pose makes her bottom look um, well, unappealing.

4 and 5 are nice. (fingers bother me a bit, but just a bit)

5. Makes this red blooded American's blood boil. Mission accomplished! (if that was indeed the intent)

Bilsen · July 22, 2011

Thanks Bryce,

I see your point on #1 but I'm drawn to the eyes and hair (which is normal for me).

#2 I suspect you are correct.

#5 (& 6) were concept shots for exactly what they say. I guess any reaction is good but "Blood Boil?" Por Que??

divmedic4 · July 22, 2011

Thanks to John for starting this thread and for the commentors showing just what a safe and fantastic site this is to post on and learn from.

Bryce Wilson · July 22, 2011

JohnGalt_ny wrote: »

I guess any reaction is good but "Blood Boil?" Por Que??

Silly me. Boiling blood means different things to different people. It may have been better if I had said that I find #6 somewhat erotic.

divamum · July 22, 2011

If the purpose of a shoot is to produce images that will appeal to 18 to 40 year old men, I would think that the poses would and should be different than if the images are directed to the 25 to 40 year old female crowd.

Absolutely agree on that - which is why we have both "glamour" and "fashion" photography often using similar models (and styling) to achieve different effects through different approaches taken by the photographers!

Coupla questions, John:

1. Purpose of shoot?
2. If for her portfolio, what market is she aiming for (glamour, fashion, commercial, actress....?)
3. How old is this young lady?
3. Do you use a stylist?
4. Do you use a makeup artist?

I have been browsing the gallery. The ones up against the house might have worked with fewer background distractions, but the windows and doorlines are dealbreakers for me unless they're blurred out more - I definitely think you can use the bokeh of your longer lens to your advantage! If you have the space to back up and are comfortable working a little further away from the model .... why not?

From the remainder of the shoot, the ones that jumped out at *me* as seeming to come more from "within" rather than simply because she's wearing "sexy" clothes or has a good body to begin with are:

31
35 (her hands are awkward and I would clone out the locks/seams on the door, but there's something very appealing about this one to me)
39 (maybe - and again cropping out the distractions on the door itself)
51 (I like the expression, although not the pose)
62 (for sultry, although the wide angle has enlarged her near-camera foot)
85 (has something going on, even though the placement of her leg might be awkward to some)
92 (I like this as much as the submerged one, although I'd probably crop and/or clone everything under the water)

Take all with a grain of salt, but since you asked....

Bilsen · July 23, 2011

Bryce Wilson wrote: »

Silly me. Boiling blood means different things to different people. It may have been better if I had said that I find #6 somewhat erotic.

AHHH silly me. In NY that means REALLY pissed off. However, with the clarification I agree totally Bryce.:D

DIva Mum it's 12:30 AM and I'm going to bed. Will look at ALL your comments in the AM but thank you in advance.

Bilsen · July 23, 2011

Thanks DivaMum

To answer the questions. Almost all my shoots are TFCD portfolio shoots so it's really up to the model for what she wants/needs. Final wardrobe is always her call. Most of them are commercial or actresses since almost none have the stats for fashion or runway (except Danielle, Agata and Monika).

Michelle is 21 years old. Primarily trying to be an actress but wants a modeling port also. That's why we did so many different sets.

I rarely have an MUA or Stylist.

I also appreciate your going thru the galleries and the comments. Specifically regarding #85, that cross leg pose is one of my personal favorites.

Thanks again.

Michelle - Various Looks

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