Good camera for an outdoors kiosk?

GContraBass

I need to find a camera for use in an outdoors kiosk:

1) Anticipate temperatures up to 125 F (52 C).
2) Handle high humidity
3) Externally powered from nominal 12V source
4) Does not require physical intervention to turn on (computer controlled)
5) Need to be able to shutdown or put to sleep, shoot, and upload pictures, all via PC
6) Can trigger external flash (fill light)
7) Duty cycle - idle 15 min, take 3 shots, idle 15 min, take 3 shots, etc. during daylight hours
8) Reilable



If our temperature requirement is unrealistic, we can turn on a fan before taking our shots, then turn it off afterwards. Camera will be in a NEMA rated enclosure with a fan available.

Currently we are using a computer controlled surveillance camera but we need better picture quality and the ability to use fill light to deal with under-hat shadows. The target will be four people standing 15 feet (4.6 meters) away.

Well supported software/SDK a plus.

We're not wedded to DSLR. a P&S that would fulfill the requirements above should work too.

Thank you.

ziggy53

I was hoping someone would respond with some sort of experience. Since that hasn't happened, let me kick things off with some additional questions.

It would be helpful to know the nature of the kiosk. I can envision safety, security, surveillance and access monitoring applications. Is your application one of these or something else? The more you describe the application the more definitive we can be in a product solution.

What are the ramifications of a partial system failure? (Blurry images, flash failure but some visible image, other image quality defect, etc.)

What are the ramifications for total system failure? (No image produced at all.)

How is success monitored? Is each image relayed to a human for review, for example?

Is there a need for redundancy and/or system diagnostics to guard against failures?

What is the current system quality standard and how much image quality improvement are you needing over your current system?

Is there a possibility for temperature moderation using passive thermal techniques? (Hermetic and thermally super-insulated enclosure, for instance.)

Approximately how many images before recharging/replacing the power supply to the kiosk?

Do you need redundant image storage in the camera/kiosk as well as the uploaded images?

Anything else you care to add to help refine the application's needs? (Sytem weight, system budget, etc.)

GContraBass

It would be helpful to know the nature of the kiosk. I can envision safety, security, surveillance and access monitoring applications. Is your application one of these or something else? The more you describe the application the more definitive we can be in a product solution.

-- Souvenir photos of foursomes at golf courses.


What are the ramifications of a partial system failure? (Blurry images, flash failure but some visible image, other image quality defect, etc.)

-- Lost sale.

What are the ramifications for total system failure? (No image produced at all.)

-- Lost sale.

How is success monitored? Is each image relayed to a human for review, for example?

-- Golfers review pictures at POS station in pro shopt and purchase based on what they see there.

Is there a need for redundancy and/or system diagnostics to guard against failures?

-- Given space, environmental, and energy constraints, no.

What is the current system quality standard and how much image quality improvement are you needing over your current system?

-- No quality stanard per se, set by non-professionals.

Is there a possibility for temperature moderation using passive thermal techniques? (Hermetic and thermally super-insulated enclosure, for instance.)

-- Hadn't considered it, looks like I'll be doing more Googleing!

Approximately how many images before recharging/replacing the power supply to the kiosk?

-- 144

Do you need redundant image storage in the camera/kiosk as well as the uploaded images?

-- Files that don't transmit stay queued in the kiosk.

Anything else you care to add to help refine the application's needs? (Sytem weight, system budget, etc.)

-- The first of these has been sitting on a hill overlooking a course for a year now. It is kept charged via solar cell. The next version will have wheels will be towed in each night by a golf cart to recharge.


Thank you.

Thank you.

ziggy53

That's a fascinating and unique application. Thanks for your candor.

If you can't find a ready source for super-insulation, at least find a source for refrigerator grade, high-efficiency insulation. I believe that for long-term reliability moderating the temperatures will be vital. Increasing the thermal mass of the unit should help considerably. You might consider consulting a building contractor familiar with passive thermal structures.

For the camera, adding a flash is potentially a major stumbling block. Most flash that's designed for typical photographic applications have some negative traits with regard to your application. "Sleeping" and then appropriate "awakening" when needed, along with rapid recycle and enough power for your needs may require some modification. Some of the professional flash units for dSLRs do have the ability to use external power and I believe some units can be programmed to stay on continuously. You could control the external power to the flash unit using an SCR and then controlling the SCR via the computer.

I am most familiar with Canon products and the Canon 580EX II can be programmed to not sleep (an advantage, I believe, for your application.)

A Canon 1D MKII camera body is old enough that used units are pretty affordable, and they too can be supplied with external power via an adapter (DC coupler kit DCK-E1 More information in this thread: http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=119693) The only reason I am suggesting the Canon 1D MKII is because of the substantial durability of the camera plus the interface options for both power supply as well as an appropriate computer interface, USB 1.1 in this case. The "working" temperatures are also very good for this camera with a rating of 32 degrees F through 113 degrees F. (Storage temperature ratings are much better than this.)

The 1D MKII also has some compatibility with Eye-Fi wireless SD cards and you may be able to use an Eye-Fi card to broadcast the files to a host computer.

Many other cameras may be interfaced but they may not be as flexible for power, flash and exposure trigger. The professional Canon cameras provide an excellent platform for this sort of application.

ThatCanonGuy

I know this may sound a bit wierd, but is there an option to have a person operating the camera? This would provide advantages like interaction with the subjects, control over turning on/off, and possibly basic editing before they go to be purchased (enhancing a photo can make it a lot more appealing to purchase).

GContraBass

This is exactly the kind of information I was looking for!

We've already looked at the Canon API and find that it gives us everything we need from a tethering point of view.

The cameras we would be looking for would be current generation. We want to be able to find the cameras we need off the shelf. The projection is for 40 kiosk within the coming year. Which of the current Canons do you think could work well with in our scenario?

The point about the ability to turn on remotely is spot on. Ideally (like THAT ever happens) we need to be able to turn on the camera and flash via PC command. If the particular kiosk is in daily use, the PC will wake itself up each morning. If the kiosk is rolled out every weekend, we want to turn just the PC on manually. Not to disparage the technical prowess of clerks at golf pro shops, but that is who we will be relying on to make this happen. We have a USB based relay array that can feed DC to those and other devices (audio amp, motion detector, fan, etc.)

To clarify the duty cycle - hours of operation are seasonal - follows daylight hours at the location.
3 pictures taken at approximately 3 second intervals are taken every 15 minutes. The interval can be changed, for example if we want to allow more refresh time for the strobe.

Thanks very much.

ziggy53

A Canon 1D MKIV would be the current model most suited to your application in terms of durability, design operating and storage temperatures, power and communication protocol and trigger flexibility. It is also around $5000USD, so ROI time could be substantial. It does allow for (apparently regulated power) 12V-DC external battery power via the Switronix XP-DSLR-12C and Canon ACK-E4 combination, and it allows USB 2

A more practical and affordable body might be the Canon 60D. You can use a Canon DR-E6 DC Coupler with an appropriate DC power source (regulated 7.2-8v, I believe, but don't know for sure). The 60D is certainly not as durable and your attention to climate control within the cabinet would have to be more careful, but I do think that other connectivity and basic functionality should be suitable.

GContraBass

I'm dowloading the Canon SDK right now to validate that we can get the level of control we need from the PC.

Thanks very much!