Green Screen and Modeling lights Recommendation

MDalby

I primarily shoot action sports but I am starting to get into team and individual HS sports shoots. I want to get a set up where I can mask and cutout the players in individual shots and make 20"x30" posters or 2'x4' banners.

I am going to try to get a green screen setup in place with I think 4 modeling lights. I just don't think I can afford a strobe solution. I think I need the green screen that would be something like 10'x20'. I currently have two light stands that I think I can use for the backdrop. I need to get a rod to hang the backdrop from on the stands.

So I think my set up would need the following:

• Green screen cloth backdrop
• Rod for backdrop
• 4 modeling lights/stands/umbrellas

Any recommendations for a good source for the money that is relatively cheap? I currently have 2 SB-800s. I guess I could get 2 used SB-28s from KEH if you think that is the better way to go than modeling lights.

http://www.keh.com/camera/Nikon-Autofocus-Shoe-Mount-Flashes/1/sku-NA219990276770?r=FE

That would be $200 just for the SB-28s. I was hoping to keep this price as low as possible.

Any thoughts or recommendations are GREATLY appreciated.

Thanks,

MD

ziggy53

In either green screen or blue screen chroma key you need to light both the subject and the background. If you want to go simpler, and potentially cheaper, I would recommend a luminance key setup using a black background. You still need to be careful about lighting the subject, but you actually just prevent light from falling on the background. As long as the background is the darkest black in the scene, it's easy to drop it out of the scene in post.

(Sometimes the eye pupils or other black items like buttons may cause some minor issues, but you can easily manually mask those out in post.)

I still recommend 3 lights for the subject(s):

Key
Fill
Rim/hair

Just make sure light does not spill to the background and you'll be fine.

With chroma key you'll need 2-4 lights for the background plus 2-3 lights for the subject. Electronic flash still gives the best subject tonality and generally also allows the best control over ambient light through fast shutter speeds. If you can't control ambient, you may find any other lights insufficient.

MDalby

ziggy53 wrote: »

Electronic flash still gives the best subject tonality and generally also allows the best control over ambient light through fast shutter speeds. If you can't control ambient, you may find any other lights insufficient.

So... I can't afford power supplies and big strobes. Will I get enough light from SB-28 type flash solutions that I can change the power from 1/4 to 1/2 etc? I also have 2 SB-800s. Will these do the trick? Everything I see on how-to videos are the big flashes.

Is there a particular light source that you recommend for quality and price effectiveness?

MDalby

Will something like this work just fine for my purposes?

http://cgi.ebay.com/2400-W-Chromakey-Green-Screen-Video-Lighting-Kit-C305-/190513631486?pt=US_Photography_Background_Material&hash=item2c5b7f50fe#ht_8682wt_1395

Art Scott

MDalby wrote: »

So... I can't afford power supplies and big strobes. Will I get enough light from SB-28 type flash solutions that I can change the power from 1/4 to 1/2 etc? I also have 2 SB-800s. Will these do the trick? Everything I see on how-to videos are the big flashes.

Is there a particular light source that you recommend for quality and price effectiveness?

Studio flash is always the better way to .....because it gives more reliable even light.....as you shoot with a battery shoe mount flash the intensity of the flash can change causing color shifts or in other words your white balance may change, and this is due to your power source losing power.....with studio flash this does not happen for several thousand or several hundred thousands flashes or until a flash tube goes out.........the lest expensive of the Alien Bees are aboput the same price as a good shoe mount flash.....$200-350 ..........

MDalby wrote: »

Will something like this work just fine for my purposes?

http://cgi.ebay.com/2400-W-Chromakey-Green-Screen-Video-Lighting-Kit-C305-/190513631486?pt=US_Photography_Background_Material&hash=item2c5b7f50fe#ht_8682wt_1395

I have always been leery of florescent light for photography.......it is a nasty green yellow....Will they work. yes, but then even the cheapest halogen lights from home depot will work also........... but I would not want just 3 lights, for me it would have to be 4 lights...and actually 5 using a green screen.........2 lights on subject..main and fill, 1 hair light for separation from green screen.....and 2 on background to make sure all shadows are washed out....but not over powering and reflecting back on subject..........this set up would be better suited for a black backdrop where you would be using main and fill and a hair light and blocking (flagging) all light off the background to create a deep black.....but with black you have to hair lights for separation especially for anyone with black hair or clothes.......and with the Chroma key bg's no one should wear anything close to the bg color or the masking and removing can get quite tedious......

angevin1

You never mention if you're planning on Shooting this indoors/outdoors or both?

Also, getting into Green/Blue Screen Automagically can cause probs if..if there is any of those colors in the uniforms or Shoes.
So I'm realllly curious as to what/where more specifically if you can.

As for the lighting that'll all depend on the venue, in/out doors. I love Green Screen outdoors, because if I play my cards right, I can light it for free ( Sun)!. So, more answers... I can also give you a link to kits I like!

MDalby

angevin1 wrote: »

You never mention if you're planning on Shooting this indoors/outdoors or both?

Also, getting into Green/Blue Screen Automagically can cause probs if..if there is any of those colors in the uniforms or Shoes.
So I'm realllly curious as to what/where more specifically if you can.

As for the lighting that'll all depend on the venue, in/out doors. I love Green Screen outdoors, because if I play my cards right, I can light it for free ( Sun)!. So, more answers... I can also give you a link to kits I like!

This will be indoors. The primary HS I shoot for has blue and white for the colors so the green screen should be fine.

angevin1

MDalby wrote: »

This will be indoors. The primary HS I shoot for has blue and white for the colors so the green screen should be fine.

Forget the Florescents! I love 'em, but they'll do you little good in this Shoot. That kit you pointed to that says it has 2400watts, really doesn't. I use florescents, and believe me: Watts is Watts! I use about 1200 to 1600 true watts to light a smallish area and one or two actors. You'd need about 10 of those kits you linked, and you'd still be shy of light. WHy is because of Shutter speed. You cannot shoot kids really slow, and of course you know that, hence MORE light. And you can't Shoot Shallow, hence MORE (Squared!) light.
So, you're gonna have to find buy and create all of your light, hence your earlier questions. in the SB department, which I like, you're gonna need a bunch. I'd suggest probably five total, two on each side and one in the middle, and thats just lighting the kids. The green Screen will need it's own lighting and it really needs to be as even as you can manage. AND, they have to be far enough away from it to prevent spillage or the green coming back onto them, and it'll do that unless you really power it towards them, which in that case will cause heavy Shadows too, which is why all the lighting. to help Soften the shadows. Not an easy task to light at all.

Strobes would be preferred due as Art said, consistency, you can get that from Hot-Shoe flashes but you'll need a bunch of those compared to say the Alien-Bees. But even with the AB's you'll need several for even lighting, and some for the BG too. Could be you could use both hotshoes say for the BG and AB's for the kids, and that would get you there. If you can get really specific, the suggestions from folks can too. Even a simple diagram of the space and the plan would help in identifying your needs.

Sorry if I am making it out to be a tough lighting job...but it really can be, esp. if you've not tried to light that kind of space before.

MDalby

Would (2) White Lightning X600s do the trick for the background lighting? They are only 600 watt?? And then use (2) SB-800's for the subject lighting?

angevin1

MDalby wrote: »

Would (2) White Lightning X600s do the trick for the background lighting? They are only 600 watt?? And then use (2) SB-800's for the subject lighting?

I have a feeling that they would. all that GS needs is even lighting AND good separation from the subjects. Back Spill has been an issue I've run into more than once!

*Edit: I totally spaced the SB800 part. THAT really depends on how many folks. Remember you're prob not going to be using ambient light here for the subjects due to it's coloring/WB. So you have to provide a bunch of power to light them well, and prevent Shadows and what have you.

MDalby

angevin1 wrote: »

I have a feeling that they would. all that GS needs is even lighting AND good separation from the subjects. Back Spill has been an issue I've run into more than once!

*Edit: I totally spaced the SB800 part. THAT really depends on how many folks. Remember you're prob not going to be using ambient light here for the subjects due to it's coloring/WB. So you have to provide a bunch of power to light them well, and prevent Shadows and what have you.

So it would be better to use the speedlights on the background and use the WL on the subject? Would 2 600 W be enough to overpower ambient? I imagine your next question would be how strong is the ambient...

I also have an option to buy 2 1800 w WL. It doesn't come with as much accessories and the price is higher.

MDalby

I will mostly have one player at time in the green screen but occasionally could have a few players together.

angevin1

MDalby wrote: »

I imagine your next question would be how strong is the ambient...
.

No..not my question. You cover the ambient by Stopping down your lens when sheer Shutter speed won't work, which is why light and powerful light is important, here in your case especially. Rare is the arena or gym with flattering lighting. All I can say is, there is no substitute for light, and powerful light!

My Biggest issue I have to say is the few number of lights you intend on going with. I do think the WL 1800's are quite powerful, and if modified right ought to work, but as I mentioned in an earlier post, be nice to have some numbers, dimensions and number of folks you intend on shooting, size of space, etc.

MDalby

As I mentioned, the green screen area will be 10' wide and the player will be roughly 10' from the screen. The room I wil most likely be shooting in is what we cal a commons area. It is a general purpose area that has a lot of Windows etc. I doubt I will ever shoot green screen in the gym but I am lucky that my main HS is new and has great lighting unlike some dungeon gums that I have shot in.

The vast majority of the time I wil only be shooting one player at a time. Occassionally there wil be 3-4.

The commons area is very large. Like a cafeteria type area.

MDalby

OK, I guess I am going to go for the 1800 W White Lightnings. It will be nice to have the option for the additional light and I guess it is better to have the light capacity and not need it than to need it and not have it.

MDalby

I won't have additional $$ for 2 more studio lights though so I will have to use my SB-800s for the backdrop.

ziggy53

I moved this to the Finishing School forum where you'll find more threads about chroma key. This also gets you some fresh eyes to the subject.

Gary752

If you're just getting started in green screen, TubeTape has a forum that deals with what you are asking. I have read that your light on the green screen has to be brighter than the light on your subject. This takes care of any shadows cast onto the backdrop. Most of the people on that forum recommend using 2 (double light) halogen worklights, one on each side. Adjust the lights so the light on the green screen is even. You don't have to worry about the different type of light on the background, because it is going to be removed anyways. You can pick up some worklights w/stands at Wally World or just about any hardware store at a resonable price. Hope this helps.

GaryB

fredjclaus

I have used tubetape for both my screens and my digital backgrounds. They have the best choices. The 800s you have will work fine for light but make sure you light up the background as well. As for software I found a company called Green Screen Wizard that has worked great for me. Ken the owner of the company is very helpful with questions.


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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=42.992087,-78.697408

MDalby

Thank you Gary and Fred

Sam

Just a thought..........I wouldn't go the work light route. I tried using one way back when. Didn't work real well. Color temp is way yellow, and they are hot. I mean burn the building down hot!

As for the stated project even though the background will be deleted and the color temp may not effect anything I would be concerned if any light were to wrap around your subjects even slightly. Also how would the color change on the green screen affect the extraction? How would you deal with balancing the light out put between the main lights and the background lights?

Sam