When to use de-noising software?

canon400dcanon400d Banned Posts: 2,826 Major grins
edited September 1, 2011 in Finishing School
I have receently purchaed Noiseware Pro and I was wondering at which point I should use Noiseware in Photoshop. On occasions I always leave the shapening to the last so do I continue to do this and if need be then use Noiseware? Or does it not matter?
Cheers
Bob

Comments

  • BinaryFxBinaryFx Registered Users Posts: 707 Major grins
    edited August 30, 2011
    Bob, I believe that noise reduction should be done as early as possible, either up front in the raw processor or when first brought into Photoshop.

    Best,

    Stephen Marsh
    http://binaryfx.customer.netspace.net.au/
    http://members.ozemail.com.au/~binaryfx/
    http://prepression.blogspot.com/
  • canon400dcanon400d Banned Posts: 2,826 Major grins
    edited August 30, 2011
    BinaryFx wrote: »
    Bob, I believe that noise reduction should be done as early as possible, either up front in the raw processor or when first brought into Photoshop.

    Best,

    Stephen Marsh

    Hi Stephen,
    Thanks for replying. I use Photoshop CS4 and after using ACR I go into Photoshop. If need be I will use Noiseware first and continue to sharpen if necessary at the very end as usual,
    Cheers
    Bob
  • arodneyarodney Registered Users Posts: 2,005 Major grins
    edited August 30, 2011
    Noise reduction prior to capture sharpening(in photoshop).

    In LR or ACR, doesn't matter, the edits are applied optimally automatically.
    Andrew Rodney
    Author "Color Management for Photographers"
    http://www.digitaldog.net/
  • canon400dcanon400d Banned Posts: 2,826 Major grins
    edited August 31, 2011
    arodney wrote: »
    Noise reduction prior to capture sharpening(in photoshop).

    In LR or ACR, doesn't matter, the edits are applied optimally automatically.

    Thanks Andrew for replying.
    Cheers
    Bob
  • basfltbasflt Registered Users Posts: 1,882 Major grins
    edited August 31, 2011
    i think it does matter , but not direct after loading
    some options like "fill light" enhance noise

    best practice is the order as in the tool colom in LR
    light , tone , curve , sharpening , noise reduction
    then some additional sharpening

    at least that my most used method
    Bas

    /ɯoɔ˙ƃnɯƃnɯs˙ʇlɟsɐq//:dʇʇɥ
  • MarkRMarkR Registered Users Posts: 2,099 Major grins
    edited August 31, 2011
    Best choice is to do NR in your raw converter software. That way the NR will be put in the right order in the render pipeline, regardless of the order in which you applied the NR.

    Once you are into rendered pixels (i.e. Photoshop), it's like algebra: order of operation matters! See this link from TopazLabs: http://www.topazlabs.com/blog/image-noise-reduction-workflow-tip/ for some details.
  • basfltbasflt Registered Users Posts: 1,882 Major grins
    edited August 31, 2011
    MarkR wrote: »
    Best choice is to do NR in your raw converter software. That way the NR will be put in the right order in the render pipeline, regardless of the order in which you applied the NR.

    Once you are into rendered pixels (i.e. Photoshop), it's like algebra: order of operation matters! See this link from TopazLabs: http://www.topazlabs.com/blog/image-noise-reduction-workflow-tip/ for some details.
    that is weird
    if noise reduction in ACR was that good , we would not need Topaz or Noiseware
    Bas

    /ɯoɔ˙ƃnɯƃnɯs˙ʇlɟsɐq//:dʇʇɥ
  • MarkRMarkR Registered Users Posts: 2,099 Major grins
    edited August 31, 2011
    basflt wrote: »
    that is weird
    if noise reduction in ACR was that good , we would not need Topaz or Noiseware

    ACR is that good, but sometimes having NR in the rendered pipeline is necessary, for example, to apply selectively using a mask, or to touch up areas where noise has been introduced do to some other pixel manipulation. thumb.gif

    And of course, sometimes I screw up and take a shot at ISO 25600-51200. In which case, if I was smart I'd toss the file, but since I'm not, I find Topaz Denoise has just that little extra oomph in cleaning it up. :D
  • basfltbasflt Registered Users Posts: 1,882 Major grins
    edited August 31, 2011
    MarkR wrote: »
    ACR is that good, but sometimes having NR in the rendered pipeline is necessary, for example, to apply selectively using a mask, or to touch up areas where noise has been introduced do to some other pixel manipulation. thumb.gif

    And of course, sometimes I screw up and take a shot at ISO 25600-51200. In which case, if I was smart I'd toss the file, but since I'm not, I find Topaz Denoise has just that little extra oomph in cleaning it up. :D
    correct

    but original question was ; when to use Topaz / Noiseware

    i say anywhere you please , but not as first , and not as last either
    Bas

    /ɯoɔ˙ƃnɯƃnɯs˙ʇlɟsɐq//:dʇʇɥ
  • canon400dcanon400d Banned Posts: 2,826 Major grins
    edited August 31, 2011
    basflt wrote: »
    correct

    but original question was ; when to use Topaz / Noiseware

    i say anywhere you please , but not as first , and not as last either

    Hi Bas,
    So you are saying I should not use Noiseware at the beginning and also not at the end after sharpening but anywhere in the middle of using photoshop. From the aforementioned posts it would appear each and everyone has a different view on this as when to use it.
    Can you please tell me where abouts in Adobe Camera Raw is the Noiseware tool?
    Cheers
    Bob
  • basfltbasflt Registered Users Posts: 1,882 Major grins
    edited August 31, 2011
    not
    you cannot start noiseware from ACR
    just do the normal processing in PS as normal
    once all is fine , then use Noiseware and after that only apply small minor changes , including [ little bit of ] sharpening
    Bas

    /ɯoɔ˙ƃnɯƃnɯs˙ʇlɟsɐq//:dʇʇɥ
  • canon400dcanon400d Banned Posts: 2,826 Major grins
    edited August 31, 2011
    basflt wrote: »
    not
    you cannot start noiseware from ACR
    just do the normal processing in PS as normal
    once all is fine , then use Noiseware and after that only apply small minor changes , including [ little bit of ] sharpening

    Thanks for that Bas I appreciate your kind help.
    Cheers
    Bob
  • arodneyarodney Registered Users Posts: 2,005 Major grins
    edited August 31, 2011
    basflt wrote: »
    that is weird
    if noise reduction in ACR was that good , we would not need Topaz or Noiseware

    Its usefulness becomes less all the time. In LR3 (PV2010), NR is quite good, the need for such products is greatly reduced.
    Andrew Rodney
    Author "Color Management for Photographers"
    http://www.digitaldog.net/
  • PeanoPeano Registered Users Posts: 268 Major grins
    edited August 31, 2011
    Footnote: When noise is a problem, you're well-advised to use an edge mask when sharpening. In fact, it's a good idea for most sharpening, noise or not.
    Peano
    RadiantPics
  • canon400dcanon400d Banned Posts: 2,826 Major grins
    edited September 1, 2011
    Peano wrote: »
    Footnote: When noise is a problem, you're well-advised to use an edge mask when sharpening. In fact, it's a good idea for most sharpening, noise or not.

    Thanks Peano,
    Can you briefly tell me how I go about using an edge mask>
    Cheers
    Bob
  • PeanoPeano Registered Users Posts: 268 Major grins
    edited September 1, 2011
    canon400d wrote: »
    Thanks Peano,
    Can you briefly tell me how I go about using an edge mask>
    Cheers
    Bob

    Sure. There are lots of tutorials and various ways to build an edge mask. Bruce Fraser explains a standard way here:

    http://www.creativepro.com/article/out-of-gamut-thoughts-on-a-sharpening-workflow?page=0%2C1

    You can record an action to capture all the steps in a single keystroke.

    EDIT: Here's another ...
    http://www.thelightsrightstudio.com/tip-making-edge-mask.htm
    Peano
    RadiantPics
  • canon400dcanon400d Banned Posts: 2,826 Major grins
    edited September 2, 2011
    Peano wrote: »
    Sure. There are lots of tutorials and various ways to build an edge mask. Bruce Fraser explains a standard way here:

    http://www.creativepro.com/article/out-of-gamut-thoughts-on-a-sharpening-workflow?page=0%2C1

    You can record an action to capture all the steps in a single keystroke.

    EDIT: Here's another ...
    http://www.thelightsrightstudio.com/tip-making-edge-mask.htm
    Thanks ever so much Peano, as that is a first class tutorial and very easy to follow. I really appreciate what you have done.
    Cheers
    Bob
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