D7000 AF performance

MGRPhoto

So I got my third D7000 the other day and I got a chance to put it through some testing today at the zoo. I've gone through 3 because I just can't believe how pitiful the AF performance is on this thing. Continuous focus just doesn't exist. It takes close to 1/4 of a second for it to re-focus on a subject that is moving toward you and it locks the shutter release so you can't even take a shot while it's trying to acquire focus.
I can't get it to focus on anything in low light when the D300s and D700 have no issues.
The AF itself is just incredibly slow. It can't keep up with animals that are just walking fast.
I ended up with only a couple usable shots but those shots had no movement and I had to focus manually.
With the D50 and D300s pretty much every shot I took was usable. Obviously a lot were still throw-aways just due to composition and other things but they were all sharp and focus point was dead on.
I'm glad I took my D50 and D300s with me today so I could use them side by side.
I honestly think the D50 is superior in AF performance and the D300s is in a completely different league.

I just don't think there is a single thing the D7000 does better though and most functionality doesn't even come close.
Sorry the ranting post I'm just frustrated I really wanted to like this camera. I desperately wanted a smaller version of my D300s.

I do want to hear from some D300s owners (sports/wildlife) that picked up a D7000 and hear your thoughts on the comparison. Do you guys think I'm missing something here or do you feel the same way I do?

Qarik

hmmm..that doesn't sound right. From my impressions (not an owner), the AF is supposed to be pretty snappy. Just some dumb questions..what lens are yuo using and what are your AF setting?

MileHighAko

I can't explain why you're having problems, but can speak from experience with the D7000 that the AF system works great for me. I've been shooting football and some gymnastics every weekend for the past several weeks and haven't had any challenges with AF performance. I shoot in AF-C mode, 21point.

thegridrunner

I found the AF to be more accurate and faster than my old D80. I think maybe you have a setting wrong.

MGRPhoto

I shoot AF-C 39 point. I found the AF-C priority selection was set to Focus. I haven't changed that setting until just now so I'm guessing it comes that way from the factory? Doesn't make much sense. I've also tried all 6 settings for focus tracking. Non of which produce good results. I've also tried 3D tracking and single point. No settings seem to keep up with moving subjects.

@MileHighAko, where do you see the 21 point selection? I have two options. 39 point and 11 point.

Molotov Everything

Menu settings A1 and A2 let you enable the shutter regardless of if the autofocus thinks it's in focus or not, just set to 'release' instead of 'focus.'
I upgraded from a D80 to the D7000 and I used it to shoot some roller derby bouts, where most of the shots were people coming straight towards me, AF-C 21 point, and I ended up throwing away very few shots because a moving player was out of focus.
I think the AF in live view mode does suck though, hunts like crazy.
I don't know if it would compare to a D300s but I can't imagine that you wouldn't be able to grab a photo of an animal plodding along with the D7000.

Edit: ok you replied while I was typing, looks like you figured out the focus priority thing already. To go to 21 point, just hold down the AF button and rotate the front command dial, and you should see the number of focus points displayed on the LCD as just an array of squares. 21 point is the one where the squares sort of form a circle... I guess that's how to describe it.

babowc

definitely doesn't sound right..
my copy focuses fast and precisely.
even in low light, it focuses pretty well.

on the other hand, my d90 hunts and hunts in low light.

MGRPhoto

Thanks Molotov Everything. I didn't realize the af point setting in the menu just enabled 39 or 11 point and then there were more detailed settings through the manual switch. That may help but I'm not too sure that would help my like/dislike for the performance yet. I love that I'm able to set my D300s to 3D with 51 points and I can just leave the camera in one spot and it will track an animal's eye while it's running full speed with perfect precision. I don't see the D7000 ever being able to do that. I'm going to go back on Sunday and play around with these settings some more though before I really make a decision.

@babowc, definitely doesn't hunt like the D90 did. The D90 definitely had it's issues.

I also just realized that this D7000 came with the original firmware when my last one came with 1.02. I'll upgrade that before I go on Sunday as well.

I'd still like to hear from some that also own a D300s. Maybe part of my problem is I was just expecting too much out of the D7000 from the get go.

SoCalAl

I have 3000+ shots on my new D7K. The focus is excellent for the class it is in, absolutely no problems. Setup is "Focus" (A1), Number of focus points 39 (A6), Focus point selection 21 or single, AF-C. Haven't tried motocross with it as that is what my D3 is for. Played with D7K on cars speeding down my street 40~50 mph and can get a series of multiple shots all in focus, doesn't miss, have caught individual birds flying over the house. Lenses enter into the equation too, try it with different lenses. Mine loves my f2.8 lenses but also works very well with my 18-200 which some folks don't like at all. I also have a D80 & D300. Focus much better than D80 and slightly less than the D300. D300 very close to D3 for fast focus.

Matthew Saville

Honestly, if you think that the D7000 is "pitiful", then either it's user error, or you probably won't be satisfied with the slight (but noticeable) improvements that the D300 or others afford. You should go straight to a D3 if you're really in need of THAT much performance.

Of course I do say this assuming that it is not just the D7000's fault, but also yours. Because personally I've tested the D7000 side by side with the D300 and D700, and have found it to be incredibly accurate and snappy. Yes, the 51 point AF system is a little better, especially in the D700 and D3. But it's not "pitiful", not by any means. I could only force the D7000 to "choke" when shooting in abysmal darkness at ISO 3200 and f/1.4, hand-held at medium close distances on a subject with less than optimal detail to focus on. So yeah, that's D3 territory, really. Any other time, such as broad daylight or general indoors or decent golden hour light; the D7000 performs quite amazingly for me. It is of course possible that you've got a lemon, but three times in a row has me guessing that you simply haven't mastered it yet. Autofocus is like prostate cancer- guys REALLY don't like to admit if they don't think they can tackle it. But seriously, it's NOT a simple technique anymore. I've counted at least forty different focusing parameters on some of the newer cameras, it's just ridiculous. So my advice is, put some time into the camera. Also of course, don't expect it to be magic. If you want to flawlessly track joggers or gymnasts or something, get a used D3 for $3K and you'll never need another camera in your life. ;-)

=Matt=

SoCalAl

+1 with Matthew

MGRPhoto

Matthew Saville wrote: »

Honestly, if you think that the D7000 is "pitiful", then either it's user error, or you probably won't be satisfied with the slight (but noticeable) improvements that the D300 or others afford. You should go straight to a D3 if you're really in need of THAT much performance.

Of course I do say this assuming that it is not just the D7000's fault, but also yours. Because personally I've tested the D7000 side by side with the D300 and D700, and have found it to be incredibly accurate and snappy. Yes, the 51 point AF system is a little better, especially in the D700 and D3. But it's not "pitiful", not by any means. I could only force the D7000 to "choke" when shooting in abysmal darkness at ISO 3200 and f/1.4, hand-held at medium close distances on a subject with less than optimal detail to focus on. So yeah, that's D3 territory, really. Any other time, such as broad daylight or general indoors or decent golden hour light; the D7000 performs quite amazingly for me. It is of course possible that you've got a lemon, but three times in a row has me guessing that you simply haven't mastered it yet. Autofocus is like prostate cancer- guys REALLY don't like to admit if they don't think they can tackle it. But seriously, it's NOT a simple technique anymore. I've counted at least forty different focusing parameters on some of the newer cameras, it's just ridiculous. So my advice is, put some time into the camera. Also of course, don't expect it to be magic. If you want to flawlessly track joggers or gymnasts or something, get a used D3 for $3K and you'll never need another camera in your life. ;-)

=Matt=

I have 0 issues with the F4/F5/D50/D80/D300/D300s/D700/D3/D3s. It's not me. My D300s and D700 already perform flawlessly. They are my primary bodies. I have no need for a D3 or D3s. I want something lighter and smaller to use when I don't feel like lugging around the all metal larger bodies. IF there is something SO different about this D7000's AF system and I just need to learn then I have no interest in learning it. I'll just stick with my D50 when I want something lighter.

This isn't as big of an issue but does the buffer really only hold 6 shots? Mine stops shooting after 6 shots on lossless compressed 14-bit. I am using a slow card so it is completely buffer limited. I thought I'd be able to get over 10 though.

ziggy53

MGRPhoto wrote: »

... IF there is something SO different about this D7000's AF system and I just need to learn then I have no interest in learning it. ...

I think that the tips you have been offered would take maybe 5 minutes to learn and maybe 2 minutes, or less, to implement. Is that too much?

(Please read the above as an encouragement to try the changes. If you have any difficulty, we're here to help.)

MGRPhoto wrote: »

... This isn't as big of an issue but does the buffer really only hold 6 shots? Mine stops shooting after 6 shots on lossless compressed 14-bit. I am using a slow card so it is completely buffer limited. I thought I'd be able to get over 10 though.

I believe that 6 shots might be the case for the D7000 and a "very" slow SD card, but with a very fast card, like a Class 10 card, people are seeing 10 shots to fill the buffer. The D7000 is also much faster than the D300 in 14 bit mode RAW. (Consider using Ultra High Speed (UHS-I) rated cards with the D7000 camera for best performance.)

The D7000 is obviously not designed for a sports/action application if you need a deep shot buffer. For short bursts it should not be too bad.

SoCalAl

Ten is the magic number, 14 bit mode RAW. Sandisk Extreme 30 MB/s, SDHC, 16 gig card. Purchased from Adorama a couple of months ago, $65 for (2) 16 Gig cards.

MGRPhoto

ziggy53 wrote: »

I think that the tips you have been offered would take maybe 5 minutes to learn and maybe 2 minutes, or less, to implement. Is that too much?

(Please read the above as an encouragement to try the changes. If you have any difficulty, we're here to help.)

I believe that 6 shots might be the case for the D7000 and a "very" slow SD card, but with a very fast card, like a Class 10 card, people are seeing 10 shots to fill the buffer. The D7000 is also much faster than the D300 in 14 bit mode RAW. (Consider using Ultra High Speed (UHS-I) rated cards with the D7000 camera for best performance.)

The D7000 is obviously not designed for a sports/action application if you need a deep shot buffer. For short bursts it should not be too bad.

The suggestions aren't things I need to learn. They are things I've used for years on my other Nikon bodies. The only thing I didn't realize was that all the AF selection points weren't configurable through the menu AND manual control. On all the previous Nikon bodies they manual control and menu driven control had the same configuration. Though I wouldn't be too happy if I had to reduce the number of AF points just to boost the AF performance. I would expect it to perform the same no matter what focus points were active/being used.

As I said though I'm going out again tomorrow to play around with it some more.

14-bit processing does suck on the D300s. That is a big win on the D7000. Can't wait for that to be implemented on the D400.

SoCalAl wrote: »

Ten is the magic number, 14 bit mode RAW. Sandisk Extreme 30 MB/s, SDHC, 16 gig card. Purchased from Adorama a couple of months ago, $65 for (2) 16 Gig cards.

Yea I just went out for a few minutes tonight with some 30mb/s cards and didn't have any issues hitting 10 shots. I like that I can hit 10+ shots on the D300s without a card though. Not a real issue though since I typically don't burst more than 3 or 4 shots anyway.

Molotov Everything

With regards to the buffer, I was shooting the roller derby again last night, 14 bit raw. Card in slot 1 was class 10, no problems what so ever (typically shooting either single shots or 3 shot bursts). Once that one filled up, my second card in there was class 6, filled the buffer a few times. So definitely class 10 all the way.

MGRPhoto

So I had a lengthy response written up last night about my experience yesterday and when I hit Post Quick Reply the server timed out on me and I lost it all. Long story short. I worked with it and got much better performance from the D7000 but it still just doesn't do it for me. There are so many things about this camera I don't like. I'm glad I'm in the minority though since Nikon needs to keep the sales up.

Matthew Saville

MGRPhoto wrote: »

I have 0 issues with the F4/F5/D50/D80/D300/D300s/D700/D3/D3s. It's not me. My D300s and D700 already perform flawlessly. They are my primary bodies. I have no need for a D3 or D3s. I want something lighter and smaller to use when I don't feel like lugging around the all metal larger bodies. IF there is something SO different about this D7000's AF system and I just need to learn then I have no interest in learning it. I'll just stick with my D50 when I want something lighter.

This isn't as big of an issue but does the buffer really only hold 6 shots? Mine stops shooting after 6 shots on lossless compressed 14-bit. I am using a slow card so it is completely buffer limited. I thought I'd be able to get over 10 though.

In that case, then yeah I guess it's just a matter of getting to know the new AF system, and the possibility / probability that indeed there are surely some lemons out there. I'm glad to hear you weren't just casually trashing the D7000 without experiencing what REAL high-end AF performance is actually like. And hopefully others will take note the next time they think that a D7000 is just as good as a D3 for professional work.

=Matt=

Matthew Saville

WRT buffers and shooting speed:

In my opinion, shooting action / casual stuff in 14bit lossless or un-compressed is like using a bazooka to kill a rabbit. Or like using a view camera to snap your Facebook profile pic. It's just not necessary. Especially if you need speed, just pop that sucker down to 12bit, compressed, and rock it out. Nail your exposures and you'll be juuuuust fine with dynamic range. Honestly I only crank up the RAW settings when I'm shooting epic landscapes from a tripod at a rate of 1 click per ~5 minutes.

But of course, those are just personal standards and I know not everybody will agree. I'm just saying, I've done just fine for hundreds of thousands of images in compressed 12bit RAW... For most of my work, it's already annoying enough that Nikon is departing from 12 megapixels without offering an sRAW type format. If the D800 is more than 16 megapixels, I'm not gonna be happy at all. :-P

=Matt=

mom2sage

sorry I'm confused...

SoCalAl wrote: »

I have 3000+ shots on my new D7K. The focus is excellent for the class it is in, absolutely no problems. Setup is "Focus" (A1), Number of focus points 39 (A6), Focus point selection 21 or single, AF-C. Haven't tried motocross with it as that is what my D3 is for. Played with D7K on cars speeding down my street 40~50 mph and can get a series of multiple shots all in focus, doesn't miss, have caught individual birds flying over the house. Lenses enter into the equation too, try it with different lenses. Mine loves my f2.8 lenses but also works very well with my 18-200 which some folks don't like at all. I also have a D80 & D300. Focus much better than D80 and slightly less than the D300. D300 very close to D3 for fast focus.

Hi. I just got a new D7000, so I was reading this thread to get advice on some aspects of the set-up. I am trying to figure out which focus area mode to choose when I shoot hockey pictures. I got confused by number of focus points 39 versus focus point selection 21...are those both set at the same time, if so, I am confused about what that represents, or are you saying that sometimes you use 39, sometimes 21? Thanks! I hope I don't sound too newbish with these questions!

MGRPhoto

mom2sage wrote: »

Hi. I just got a new D7000, so I was reading this thread to get advice on some aspects of the set-up. I am trying to figure out which focus area mode to choose when I shoot hockey pictures. I got confused by number of focus points 39 versus focus point selection 21...are those both set at the same time, if so, I am confused about what that represents, or are you saying that sometimes you use 39, sometimes 21? Thanks! I hope I don't sound too newbish with these questions!

So the D7000 is a little different from Nikon cameras I've owned and currently own. There are two places to set the AF point selection.

For action shots you want to be shooting in continuous. So to switch between Auto, Continuous and Single you push the little button in the middle of the Focus mode selector right below the lens release and turn the main dial. If you hold that same button and turn the secondary dial you scroll through the AF modes. Now, I'm not sure what the difference is on the menu driven selection. It seems to be a limit on the active focus points. If you go into the custom setting menu it's a6. Number of focus points. Your options here are 39 and 11. I think selecting 11 physically limits the number of focus points the af sensor has to deal with thus reducing the processing overhead. I found the best performance to be limiting to 11 focus points in the menu and setting the AF mode to 39 point area or 21 point area on the dial.

ThatCanonGuy

With Canon you can group focus points together... maybe you can make 11 groups of the 39 focus points on the D7000?

MileHighAko

Selecting 39 vs 11 is a user interface feature. Instead of navigating between 39 focus points you can navigate around just 11 of them when moving the focus point selector (with 11 spread out). Makes it faster to move the selector around the viewfinder. The AF engine still uses the number of focus points selected in the mode - single, 9, 21, 39, 3D, Auto.

Matthew Saville

ThatCanonGuy wrote: »

With Canon you can group focus points together... maybe you can make 11 groups of the 39 focus points on the D7000?

Yeah, same system on Nikon. You can flip a switch and the 9 adjacent points become active as "support" point for the main AF point. Or, you can use the surrounding 21 points.

These options are available separately from the decision between 39 and 11 AF points actually. That's a completely different setting, basically the option of 11 points is just so that you can move around the viewfinder faster. (If you've ever used the 51 point AF system, you know how annoying it can be to have to click your focus point ten times to get it where you want!)


=Matt=