Minimum laptop spec for running LR/CS+7d raw files?

divamum · September 18, 2011

I may throw my laptop out the window if I don't replace it soon :rofl Seriously - it's been a great little machine, but even with added RAM it's struggling with what i throw at it. The raw files from the 7d are HUGE and once I start working on multiple tiffs etc, it just freaks out, even when I keep the hard drive relatively empty.

Ground rule:
1 I hate Mac's - nothing will make me jump from PC (even if I could afford it, which I can't). Yes, they have gorgeous screens, but given that it's taken me 8 months to (almost) come to terms with and stop actively hating my iPhone, that's not enough to persuade me. Please don't try to tell me how wonderful Macs are - I hate using them and don't want one. End of.

2. Computer will not be exclusively for photo-editing - it will be my all-around workhorse/desktop-replacement machine. I'm happy to go with a 17" screen if I can find one that's decent at a good price-point - - yes, I travel with it, but usually to go stay somewhere else for a month rather than lugging it around all the time where lighter would be better. If I do start needing something lighter, I'd consider a netbook or some such as an extra machine for that use.

In any case, some specs:

What processor is currently recommended as a starting point?
In PC laptop screens, what is closest to "good for editing"? I realise that nothing will be as good as a decent external monitor (of course), but within that limitation... what's "better" (if not "best") in laptop screens? Obviously, as much RAM as possible (I currently run my Studio 15 with 4g, and it isn't enough, so I'm guessing 8g?). Hard drive - sure, bigger is nice, but I tend to add external drives anyway so that's not a dealbreaker.
I currently use CS3, but I'm sure that will change in the future (possibly not-too-distant future), so I need to consider what it will take to run a later version. Obviously, LR3.

We typically buy our computers through the Dell Outlet - we've had GREAT luck this way in the past (two laptops and three desktops all of which have been entirely satisfactory). While we're not limited to this, it's certainly our starting point so if anybody recommends any Dell models, by all means name 'em.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts!

Dan7312 · September 19, 2011

I tend to push my laptops to the edge in performance, but not for photography but software development as I can end up on the road a lot and I need to take my dev system with me. I have done some image editing on my laptops too. Here is what I have found over time doing this. Image editing is as least, if not more intense as building software and has similar memory/cpu power reqs.

You can't have too much memory. These days I can't imagine getting less than 4GB. You can't have too fast a processor. These will kill your battery life. I've always gotten the secondary battery that plugs into the CD/DVD bay.

Disk is an issue but what I do is have all my project stuff on an external drive that I velcro to the cover of the laptop. That way the drive and laptop are one piece. When I get back to my desktop I can just plug in the external drive and continue where I have left off. Make sure you have cloud backup software that can handle external drives.

Heat is an issue. I found it hard to really use my laptop on my lap... it just gets too hot. I've also had laptops that would just shut down due to overheating, which is espcially embarrasing when doing a presentation:cry. In any case laptops with variable speed processors these days will slow down the processor when it gets too hot. That's kinda' self defeating though. You run into this problem because of all dust that blocks up the vents. On some laptops it's easy to clean out the dust and on others it is almost impossible.

I used photoshop on laptops and the screen is an issue for serious image editing... though it pretty easy to argue that none of my editing is serious

. The image always appears a put muddy to me. I don't know of a good solution for this. Both PS and LR in effect build the image from scratch when you make a change (that's the non-destructive editing). When heat slows down the processor this can take quite a while.

I've always had good luck with Dell refurbs but I've never used it for laptops because when I replace my laptop I want the highest performance with lot's of memory and those never seem to be in the refurbs. You can of course add memory, but increasing memory in laptops usually means throwing away the memory chips in it and replacing them with bigger ones which tends to kill the economics.

As an alternative to Dell refurbs you might talk to http://www.pugetsystems.com for a performance custom laptop. The are reasonable priced and technically savy and have some understanding of image editing systems. I've only used them for desktop systems though.

Dan

divamum wrote: »

I may throw my laptop out the window if I don't replace it soon !

20DNoob · September 19, 2011

Heck when I'm on the road I'm running 5D2 RAW files through CS5 on my stock(read 3GB ram) netbook, I really need to bump it up to the 8GB max but I'm just being lazy about it. Although I would like to plug it into a 27" Apple LED Cinema Display when at home, man now those are gorgeous.

Newsy · September 20, 2011

Dell m4600 - has an optional 15.4" Premium Color screen which uses an IPS tft LCD panel. The IPS panel is just like what you find on the best external monitors preferred by photo editors and graphics artists. Very good viewing angles.

Almost all laptops use TN tft LCD panels though there is a standard TN and a premium TN like you find in the MAcBooks, various Dells, HP's, Sony's, and others.

Laptops that use IPS panels are but a handful...

Dell m4600
Dell m6600 17" IPS panel option supposedly available this month
HP 8740w Elitebook 17" Dreamcolor II screen option
HP 8540w Elitebook 15.4" Dreamcolor II screen option
Lenovo X220 notebook with 12.5" Premium HD option

.

Overfocused · September 20, 2011

Unless you're stitching together a 4GB panorama, RAM isn't the issue here as much as hard disk speed/clutter. Your XPS has more than enough specs to handle files from a 5DMKII, not just a 7D. For travel I have a netbook with a dual core 1.7GHz processor and 4GB of RAM and it handles multi-GB videos and documents from the MKII just fine.

It sounds like you may need a cleanup of your hard drive, since my netbook is definitely not as fast as your XPS but it doesn't churn and groan like you're indicating. This is the netbook I use: Clicky here

If you live near Chicago maybe I could clean and tune it up for a price

divamum · September 20, 2011

Thanks for all the replies.

@Dan, I'll check out Puget. And glad to know that I'm not the only one who's had decent luck with refurbs; so many people grumble about Dell, but they really have been great for us to date. Oh, and on the subject of overheating, this laptop was having MAJOR issues with that a couple of months ago, but I just sent it in to have the fan/heatsink assembly replaced under warranty and it's now great on that score. I don't usually use it on my lap (it's essentially a portable desktop-replacement for me) so I can live with basic laptop heat

@Overfocused current machine is not an XPS - it's a 2008 Dell Studio15, so not really a "performance" build. When I first got it, it felt like a HUGE step up from my then 6 yr old laptop; at the time, I was shooting an xsi and mostly jpg, so initially it seemed like a speed demon! But a switch to the 7d, needing to use tiffs to get into CS3 (I tend to use them for deep editing rather than DNG's) and the limitations start to show. Yeah, I could stand to clean off even more from the hdd - it of course runs a bit faster when it has more room to turn itself around - but I also think it's overall processing power and video card which are limiting it; displaying/refreshing images in LR takes a REALLY long time. It can't take any more RAM - 4g is the maximum.

Speaking of which, I should also have asked about video card reccos. Any particular suggestions? Minimum onboard RAM for the video card?

Richard · September 20, 2011

divamum wrote: »

Speaking of which, I should also have asked about video card reccos. Any particular suggestions? Minimum onboard RAM for the video card?

Unless you're doing video editing or gaming, you don't need a lot of video RAM. However, since modern software (including PS and LR) can use the GPU to offload work from the CPU, you probably should avoid the lower end cards.

angevin1 · September 20, 2011

DM, you don't say in your OP, but I am guessing you're using an older 32bit machine. A 64 bit machine will turn the tide for ya. (4GB max is a clue!) There are cheaper solutions for the file handling, but I don't think there are cheaper solutions for the monitor.

ziggy53 · September 20, 2011

Newsy wrote: »

... Dell m6600 17" IPS panel option supposedly available this month

That looks to be almost ideal for a desktop replacement and Photoshop CS5 application. You can have it with a

17.3" UltraSharp™ FHD(1920x1080) Wide View display (is that the IPS, or are we waiting for the "PremierColor"?),
Quad-core processor (i7-2720QM),
8.0GB, DDR3-1600MHz SDRAM, 4 DIMMS,
NVIDIA® Quadro® 3000M with 2GB GDDR5 (certified for PS and Premiere CS5)
and a fast 500GB HD,

... all without breaking $3000USD.

Dan7312 · September 20, 2011

Thanks to you and Newsy for mentioning this Dell laptop... I hadn't spotted it in my recent look for an i7+Premiere+touch screen search for a portable.

ziggy53 wrote: »

That looks to be almost ideal for a desktop replacement and Photoshop CS5 application. You can have it with a

17.3" UltraSharp™ FHD(1920x1080) Wide View display (is that the IPS, or are we waiting for the "PremierColor"?),
Quad-core processor (i7-2720QM),
8.0GB, DDR3-1600MHz SDRAM, 4 DIMMS,
NVIDIA® Quadro® 3000M with 2GB GDDR5 (certified for PS and Premiere CS5)
and a fast 500GB HD,

... all without breaking $3000USD.

ziggy53 · September 20, 2011

Getting back to the theme of this thread, a "minimum" laptop that can run late version Photoshop, I suspect that this ASUS G73 Gaming Series G73SW-BST6 Refurbished Notebook might be sufficient for true mobile use, especially if you couple it with an external IPS monitor for the more serious image processing:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834230111

The specs look pretty good for a $900 laptop:

Operating System - Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
CPU Type - Intel Core i7-2630QM 2.0GHz (4-cores w/8-threads)
Screen - 17.3"
Memory Size - 8GB DDR3
Hard Disk - 750GB
Optical Drive - DVD Super Multi
Graphics Card - NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460M (1G RAM, 1600 x 900)

(2-year extended warranty is $80, recommended)

Newsy · September 20, 2011

ziggy53 wrote: »

That looks to be almost ideal for a desktop replacement and Photoshop CS5 application. You can have it with a

17.3" UltraSharp™ FHD(1920x1080) Wide View display (is that the IPS, or are we waiting for the "PremierColor"?),
Quad-core processor (i7-2720QM),
8.0GB, DDR3-1600MHz SDRAM, 4 DIMMS,
NVIDIA® Quadro® 3000M with 2GB GDDR5 (certified for PS and Premiere CS5)
and a fast 500GB HD,

... all without breaking $3000USD.

If you look at the m4600 build out, when you go into the screen options you will find this:

"15.6" UltraSharp™ FHD(1920x1080) PremierColor IPS RGB Anti-Glare LED-backlit Premium Panel Guarantee "

Keywords... PremierColor IPS . It adds $410 over the base screen.

The m6600 lacks this option at this time so they have yet to release the IPS panel for it. Should be out soon as HP is using this LG Display supplied IPS panel in their 8740w.

.

Dan7312 · September 20, 2011

The Dell site says the touch screen option has full Adobe-RGB gammut. Is there going to be an issue because it is not enough bits or off-axis viewing will lead to color shifts?

Newsy wrote: »

If you look at the m4600 build out, when you go into the screen options you will find this:
"15.6" UltraSharp™ FHD(1920x1080) PremierColor IPS RGB Anti-Glare LED-backlit Premium Panel Guarantee "
Keywords... PremierColor IPS . It adds $410 over the base screen.

The m6600 lacks this option at this time so they have yet to release the IPS panel for it. Should be out soon as HP is using this LG Display supplied IPS panel in their 8740w.

.

divamum · September 21, 2011

Thanks for all this great info, guys. $3k would be WAY out of my budget, but it does show there are starting to be some credible options for high-end mobile computing!

Tom, how does switching to 64bit affect other programs, ie can older 32bit programs still run in that environment? In particular, I have XP version of a couple of sound editing programs that i'd hate to give up; I persuaded them to run in Vista Home with patches, but are those kinds of options viable? Similarly, older Adobe products (eg CS3) - compatible?

Newsy · September 21, 2011

Dan7312 wrote: »

The Dell site says the touch screen option has full Adobe-RGB gammut. Is there going to be an issue because it is not enough bits or off-axis viewing will lead to color shifts?

I tried to confirm that but could not find a specific statement to that affect. Frankly, the Dell site has been driving me crazy as I've been trying to confirm some motherboard options and their documentation is extremely poor.

I suspect that the touch screen is not an IPS but is similar to the tft panel used in many of the Android tablets. If it is a variant of a TN or MVA then there will be issues with off-axis color/gamma shifts.

I'm not too worried about the panel being 6bit + AFRC as banding issues have been minimal with the recent external monitors using this and I would expect (but who knows for sure other than the product engineers) that they would use the same chipset for processing in a laptop as one of their budget external monitors.

I figure the IPS panel when it comes to the m6600 will be a pseudo 10bit (8bit + AFRC) with at least a 10bit LUT and a wide gamut B+RG-LED back light.

.

ziggy53 · September 21, 2011

divamum wrote: »

Thanks for all this great info, guys. $3k would be WAY out of my budget, but it does show there are starting to be some credible options for high-end mobile computing!

Tom, how does switching to 64bit affect other programs, ie can older 32bit programs still run in that environment? In particular, I have XP version of a couple of sound editing programs that i'd hate to give up; I persuaded them to run in Vista Home with patches, but are those kinds of options viable? Similarly, older Adobe products (eg CS3) - compatible?

I'm running Windows 7, Home Premium, 64 bit. Some older software drivers have issues and the installation software can sometimes balk, but many older 32 bit programs run just fine. Sometimes permissions need to be specifically granted and you may have to use a settings configuration for picky software.

For "really" old 16 bit and 32 bit software I use Sun's Virtual Box emulation, virtual machine. VMWare is even more capable, but the Sun Virtual Box is free. (You do need an operating system and legitimate license for the OS. I run Win 2000 in the virtual machine.)

I do use Audacity for a lot of my simpler audio tasks and it's really pretty good stuff fro freeware. It works fine on Win 7.

angevin1 · September 22, 2011

divamum wrote: »

Thanks for all this great info, guys. $3k would be WAY out of my budget, but it does show there are starting to be some credible options for high-end mobile computing!

Tom, how does switching to 64bit affect other programs, ie can older 32bit programs still run in that environment? In particular, I have XP version of a couple of sound editing programs that i'd hate to give up; I persuaded them to run in Vista Home with patches, but are those kinds of options viable? Similarly, older Adobe products (eg CS3) - compatible?

The only problem that you may run into it seems is support issues. For instance Adobe claims that since WIn7 wasn't on their/our horizon when they released CS3, they cannot actively support it; give you support should you have problems with WIn7 and CS3. Hopefully someone will chime in here specific to CS3! Most 32 bit programs run just fine. I think you/I'd be amazed at how many 32 bit programs we run without ever knowing it.

this may or may not be something you're interested in but MS link:http://www.microsoft.com/windows/compatibility/windows-7/en-us/default.aspx is where you can check compatibility and upgrade recommendations.For instance I used Ziggy53's Audacity software and plugged it into the search bar and it came back with a result from the manufacturers page for a free upgrade. Nice way to check all that peripheral software...printers and the like as well.

Another place to keep an eye on: tech Bargains; http://www.techbargains.com/laptopcomputernotebookreview.cfm?f=f

Dan7312 · September 22, 2011

Windows 7 has a 32-bit mode of operation to support 32-bit applications, but that in itself doesn't guarentee the 32-bit application will run.

Windows 7 has an XP mode of operation for 32-bit app's that just won't run in Windows 7. Windows XP mode is, in effect, loading Windows XP into it's own little box (called a virtual machine) along side all the app's running in Windows 7. It's a free download from Microsoft http://www.microsoft.com/windows/virtual-pc/download.aspx if it is not already on the system that you get.

The Windows 7 compatibility page http://www.microsoft.com/windows/compatibility/windows-7/en-US/Search.aspx?l=en-us&type=Software&s=photoshop&page=1 lists Photoshop CS3 Extended as being compatible with Windows 7 so my guess is that you are good to go with plain ol' Windows 7. Microsoft litterally runs hundreds, maybe thousands of applications, to check for compatibity with new veresions of Windows before they release it. It looks like Photoshop CS3 was one of them.

Dan

divamum wrote: »

Thanks for all this great info, guys. $3k would be WAY out of my budget, but it does show there are starting to be some credible options for high-end mobile computing!

Tom, how does switching to 64bit affect other programs, ie can older 32bit programs still run in that environment? In particular, I have XP version of a couple of sound editing programs that i'd hate to give up; I persuaded them to run in Vista Home with patches, but are those kinds of options viable? Similarly, older Adobe products (eg CS3) - compatible?

Dan7312 · September 22, 2011

You can check if your sound program is compatible by looking it up on the Windows 7 compatiblity page http://www.microsoft.com/windows/compatibility/windows-7/en-US/default.aspx For example if you look up Audicity on that page it leads to the link for the upgrade to the compable version.

divamum wrote: »

I have XP version of a couple of sound editing programs that i'd hate to give up; I persuaded them to run in Vista Home with patches, but are those kinds of options viable? Similarly, older Adobe products (eg CS3) - compatible?

Pupator · September 22, 2011

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divamum · September 22, 2011

Thanks all! Was just checking out the XP Emulator in the 64bit versions of Win7- that may be the way to go.

Yeah, Ziggy, I'm familiar with Audacity... I just don't like it as much as Wavelab and Soundforge which, even in their XP incarnations are crazy-powerful pieces of software with a LOT of plugins. These are full versions because we get nice freebies through the college BUT.... we can't guarantee that the college will replace them with updated versions, and I'd hate to lose them with an upgrade imcompatibility!

Still on the hunt.... thanks for all the great info!

Thanks for the coupon!!

ziggy53 · September 22, 2011

Just a heads-up.

The Microsoft virtual machines do not work with the Windows 7 Home Premium or Starter editions. You must have Windows 7 Professional, Enterprise, or Ultimate to run Windows XP Mode emulation.

Dan7312 · September 22, 2011

BTW if you do end up ordering from Dell, even a refurb, call up and talk to an agent even if you work out everything online. The agent can often give you a further discount. I just finished ordering a new system from Dell for work and got an additional $250 off, on top of all the promos, just by saying I needed it to fit my budget. It was an expensive system but you can almost always get some additional discount when you talk to the agent.

Dan

divamum wrote: »

We typically buy our computers through the Dell Outlet - we've had GREAT luck this way in the past (two laptops and three desktops all of which have been entirely satisfactory). While we're not limited to this, it's certainly our starting point so if anybody recommends any Dell models, by all means name 'em.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts!

Wayupthere · September 22, 2011

ziggy53 wrote: »

Just a heads-up.

The Microsoft virtual machines do not work with the Windows 7 Home Premium or Starter editions. You must have Windows 7 Professional, Enterprise, or Ultimate to run Windows XP Mode emulation.

Ahh-HA! I was wondering about that. I have one computer with 7 Home Premium and just dislike everything about it. Still have 4 xp machines and had forgot that you were supposed to be able to run virtual machine.
I was thinking about a laptop just for photos...7 Professional might just be the answer.
Thanks.
Gary

divmedic4 · September 23, 2011

Diva, if you have an HHGregg locally I would check there. They are apparently closing out all of their HP stock in light of the announcement last month. This past weekend I picked up a 17.3" DV7-6185US for $649 with a $50 rebate. It sports a second generation i7 processor, 6 GB RAM, 1 GB dedicated video memory and 750 GB drive.

divamum · September 23, 2011

Thanks for the tip - we do actually have an HHGregg nearby. Two questions:

1. What announcement? (HP? The store? Sorry - out of loop, clearly!)
2. How's HP tech support these days? I remember a while back that everybody was complaining about per-minute phone charges etc etc. While I don't use tech support any more than I have to, when I need it for hardware issues, I don't want to get stuffed with an unexpected bill...

BradfordBenn · September 23, 2011

You can ping the audio companies and ask about upgrade path. Having said that going with Win7 ultimate, no problems with my audio stuff biggest problem is the hardware drivers for audio devices.

I will be teaching a digital audio class next week and will be using lots of editing programs, let me know if there one is something particular you want to know about.

Also regarding emulation VMWare has tools to allow you to virtualize your existing machine. They are free also

Sorry for typo shortness, sending from seat 21A somewhere over Nebraska

divamum · September 23, 2011

Thanks BB. The main audio program I use is Wavelab v5 (ample for my needs, even though now a couple of generations out of date); it's not supported, according to the link above Wavelab 7 is, but no other is listed. I got it to run in Vista with a patch. I'd be happy to run it in an XP emulator, so hopefully that will make it viable should I go the 64 bit route, which is sounding better and better...

Still don't have quite enough $ in the piggybank to press ahead with this (nothing like unexpectedly needing a new clutch in the car to set things back!), but soon.... soon.....

divmedic4 · September 24, 2011

Sorry for the delay in responding. HP is going to get out of the computer and tablet business, at least that is what they announced last month. Apparently they are looking to spin these items off in to a separate company sort of like IBM did with Lenovo. As far as support goes, I haven't had a problem with them. Last used support about 3 months ago when the hard drive in my daughter's laptop went bad. Turnaround time was a total of 6 days.

divamum · October 27, 2011

Short follow up on this: I have not, in fact, yet bought another machine. Not only due to lack of funds to get what I want, but because we figured out that the reason the performance on my existing laptop was so poor was because one of of the RAM modules wasn't properly seated, and thus I was trying to run on 2g (not pretty!), not the 4g that was theoretically installed!

I still want another machine in due course, but now that this one has had its fan fixed and doesn't overheat (fixed under warranty in August), and is properly utilizing the installed memory (which I apparently didn't put in place properly when it was returned to me and I re-installed it), it's fine for now - not as fast as optimum, but it's stable, handling actions and large files, and will do for now.

So, to anybody else having issues, check that Windows can see your RAM if you have a performance problem. If it can't, check the hardware - it could be as simple a fix as snapping it down into place.....!!!

angevin1 · October 28, 2011

divamum wrote: »

Short follow up on this: I have not, in fact, yet bought another machine. Not only due to lack of funds to get what I want, but because we figured out that the reason the performance on my existing laptop was so poor was because one of of the RAM modules wasn't properly seated, and thus I was trying to run on 2g (not pretty!), not the 4g that was theoretically installed!

I still want another machine in due course, but now that this one has had its fan fixed and doesn't overheat (fixed under warranty in August), and is properly utilizing the installed memory (which I apparently didn't put in place properly when it was returned to me and I re-installed it), it's fine for now - not as fast as optimum, but it's stable, handling actions and large files, and will do for now.

So, to anybody else having issues, check that Windows can see your RAM if you have a performance problem. If it can't, check the hardware - it could be as simple a fix as snapping it down into place.....!!!

GOod report! Another good reason to have a gadget on the desktop that tells you what windows sees!

Minimum laptop spec for running LR/CS+7d raw files?

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