Bright background under exposed subjects

tatetate Registered Users Posts: 66 Big grins
edited September 20, 2011 in Finishing School
Hello! I just had Steve from Smugmug fix one of my photos (THANK-YOU) and he refered me over to you guys for help. I guess what happened is the bright background fools the camera meter and under exposes the subjects. Any tips on 1) not having that happen in the first place? Do I up my ISO? (we were outside, kids under tree near water, yes was sunny, but early morning) 2) how do I correct it? I have PSE9?

Thanks!

Comments

  • mstensmstens Registered Users Posts: 78 Big grins
    edited September 20, 2011
    Well, there are several ways of dealing with this. It's important to understand that a reflective meter simply averages all the light passing through your lens to a middle grey. As you've noticed, if you have a bright background you'll overexpose your subject, and a dark background would underexpose. No matter how 'smart' these meters get, they all fall prey to this phenomenon.

    You can use EV adjustment to 'over expose' your shot (assuming you're using an automated mode). This takes some practice in terms of just how much you should correct your exposure. The classic example is a shot with snow, in which case you'd start at somewhere between 1.5-2 stops of over exposure (+ev) to correct for this. This same thing, by the way, holds true with darker backgrounds (just in reverse). You could bracket your exposures, basically if you're in one of these instances you could take several exposures with various levels of corrective (both positive and negative) EV adjustment, but knowing that if you're scenes over-all bright you'll want to go positive, and dark positive, I wouldn't bracket for these types of shots.

    You could also use a grey card (ideally held by your subject pointed at where the camera is going to be) and meter off of that and establish your exposure (filling the frame, or at least the section of the frame that your meter is active in). This is exactly what we did in initial photo classes, while learning exposure. Then you can move back, compose, and make your shot. While somewhat cumbersome, this works quite well to get you a solid exposure. The benefit of this is it makes it dead simple to establish a custom white balance while you're at it.

    Additionally, and really just mentioning these as a point of reference. You could also use an incident meter, which measures the light cast onto your subject so it does not care what colors are involved. Now, there's also the Zone System, which is a bit more involved but does yield ultimate control over your intended exposure. It also takes practice to know what zones are reflected in your scene.

    Simply upping the ISO won't help, as it'll just average at this higher ISO value. You can always chimp and evaluate the image and histogram. Keep in mind that in these situations the histogram will be heavy to either the right (with a bright background) or to the left (dark background) regardless of how 'perfectly' the shot is exposed. While I'm thinking about it, many cameras have a mode where any highlights that are blown out blink. This is generally a good indication of an over-exposed images at least.

    You can adjust your exposure in PSE (which I can't get into because I don't have PSE), but this has some negatives in that it tends to introduce noise and in my opinion it's far easier to simply get the exposure right in the first place. Although I'm certain there's someone who can help out with that.
  • Art ScottArt Scott Registered Users Posts: 8,959 Major grins
    edited September 20, 2011
    I prefer to shoot in the lowest ISO possible all the time......which means if I can get the shot at iso 200 then I do but if I have to up the ISO then I do....in this situation upping the ISO will not help.......

    not an elements user....so no help there...however...to not have this happen again:
    1- use and incident meter for all metering or shoot and chimp and make sure to meter off subject only (spot meter)

    2- also use fill flash and do not worry about washing out background.

    3- meter for background and use fill flash ......if done correctly (manual mode) this should give great results.......

    Personally I opt for a mix of 1 and 3......I meter with a handheld incident meter and use fill flash.....
    "Genuine Fractals was, is and will always be the best solution for enlarging digital photos." ....Vincent Versace ... ... COPYRIGHT YOUR WORK ONLINE ... ... My Website

  • BinaryFxBinaryFx Registered Users Posts: 707 Major grins
    edited September 20, 2011
    It would seem that the 1st question has been well answered (spot metering). Fill flash was also mentioned, which leads me onto the digital post processing equivalent. Use the Adjustments > Shadow/Highlights command to open up the shadows a bit. Don't go too far though as the lightening may look unnatural, use curves to finish things off rather than only going for an excessive shadows/highlights adjustment.

    Regards,

    Stephen Marsh
  • tatetate Registered Users Posts: 66 Big grins
    edited September 20, 2011
    Thanks Art, Mike & Steve! There is always so much to learn and remember! Christy
  • tatetate Registered Users Posts: 66 Big grins
    edited September 20, 2011
    Art, I will have to look into an incident meter.....any suggestions on one to get? I have a speedlight.....I had it on the camera, but now come to think of it, I probally had it on point up and diffused.....Ya not the smartest when outside....but I had it on the camera just in case I needed it and the little ones didnt sit still for long.....So the meter will tell you what to set your aperture & shutter speed at?
  • angevin1angevin1 Registered Users Posts: 3,403 Major grins
    edited September 20, 2011
    tate wrote: »
    Hello! I just had Steve from Smugmug fix one of my photos (THANK-YOU) and he refered me over to you guys for help. I guess what happened is the bright background fools the camera meter and under exposes the subjects. Any tips on 1) not having that happen in the first place? Do I up my ISO? (we were outside, kids under tree near water, yes was sunny, but early morning) 2) how do I correct it? I have PSE9?

    Thanks!

    Hi there!
    Go to page 45 in your D40 manual. Check out metering! Then just go and sit outside and see how different elements in your environment meter differently (And try different metering modes). No offense ( to any of us) but you can buy all the gadgets in the world, and it will never trump understanding your camera and it's settings.

    Camera Settings.

    1. Keep White Balance ( WB) on AWB until you know or understand what it is you want. If you shoot RAW files ( NEF in nikonspeak) you can adjust WB later.
    2. Shutter Speed, ISO, Aperture; learn the relationship of those 3 things and never look back. If you google all three of those together you'll find plenty of articles to suit.
    tom wise
  • tatetate Registered Users Posts: 66 Big grins
    edited September 20, 2011
    angevin1 wrote: »
    Hi there!
    Go to page 45 in your D40 manual. Check out metering! Then just go and sit outside and see how different elements in your environment meter differently (And try different metering modes). No offense ( to any of us) but you can buy all the gadgets in the world, and it will never trump understanding your camera and it's settings.

    Camera Settings.

    1. Keep White Balance ( WB) on AWB until you know or understand what it is you want. If you shoot RAW files ( NEF in nikonspeak) you can adjust WB later.
    2. Shutter Speed, ISO, Aperture; learn the relationship of those 3 things and never look back. If you google all three of those together you'll find plenty of articles to suit.

    Thanks! I do agree that I have to learn why /how the camera works.....will check out the metering info....Whats so bad is I just ordered another camera and having a hard time with it learning what it does since I am familiar with my d40 Just ordered the d7000 and have d700 on order to check out. As you can tell I know my d40, but I dont......I have been constantly learning the camera over the past 3 years! I really always thought with the bright background, underexposed people that was just a bad picture and didnt really think about how it could be corrected....or if it could be.
  • arodneyarodney Registered Users Posts: 2,005 Major grins
    edited September 20, 2011
    tate wrote: »
    Art, I will have to look into an incident meter.....any suggestions on one to get?

    Assuming you are standing in the same light as the scene you wish to capture, meter off your hand, open up one stop.

    That said, a true Incident meter is useful to have. But you can fake it for the time being!
    Andrew Rodney
    Author "Color Management for Photographers"
    http://www.digitaldog.net/
  • MarkRMarkR Registered Users Posts: 2,099 Major grins
    edited September 20, 2011
    arodney wrote: »
    Assuming you are standing in the same light as the scene you wish to capture, meter off your hand, open up one stop.

    That said, a true Incident meter is useful to have. But you can fake it for the time being!


    Oooh, nifty trick! I learn something new every day. (I also forget something new every day; pretty much it's break-even.)

    I prefer not to use spot meter only because I'm not smart enough to remember to set it back to matrix when I'm done. Instead I'll use +/- exposure and just chimp. rolleyes1.gif
  • pathfinderpathfinder Super Moderators Posts: 14,708 moderator
    edited September 20, 2011
    A worthwhile skill is knowing what the correct exposure is when shooting out of doors via the Sunny 16 rule

    Then you will have an idea if the exposure your meter is giving you is in the ballpark. Check out the backlit skier in the link

    Set your camera up in Manual Mode, set the correct aperture, shutter speed, and ISO, and fire away..
    Pathfinder - www.pathfinder.smugmug.com

    Moderator of the Technique Forum and Finishing School on Dgrin
  • mstensmstens Registered Users Posts: 78 Big grins
    edited September 20, 2011
    pathfinder wrote: »
    A worthwhile skill is knowing what the correct exposure is when shooting out of doors via the Sunny 16 rule

    Then you will have an idea if the exposure your meter is giving you is in the ballpark. Check out the backlit skier in the link

    Set your camera up in Manual Mode, set the correct aperture, shutter speed, and ISO, and fire away..

    A great point. I still check incident meters using 1/100 @ iso 100 in bright light (I do not posses a calibrated light source).
  • pathfinderpathfinder Super Moderators Posts: 14,708 moderator
    edited September 20, 2011
    I agree Mike, incident light meters rule, especially in Hollywood where they are the only light meters used.

    I love my Sekonic L-358, but most folks have not ponied up for one, so they need to be able to understand the limitations of reflected meters.

    I think understanding that the sunlight out of doors is remarkable consistent, and that understanding Sunny 16 helps me interpret what my in camera reflected light meter is saying. I could also meter off an 18% grey card, or even better a Lastolite non specular grey reflector, but all those techniques take just a few second to set up, and can cause a candid shooter to not be ready when the time comes.

    If you know sunlight and shade exposures by heart out of doors, then you can set your camera and fire away as long as a cloud does not pass over the sun.
    Pathfinder - www.pathfinder.smugmug.com

    Moderator of the Technique Forum and Finishing School on Dgrin
  • angevin1angevin1 Registered Users Posts: 3,403 Major grins
    edited September 20, 2011
    tate wrote: »
    Thanks! I do agree that I have to learn why /how the camera works.....will check out the metering info....Whats so bad is I just ordered another camera and having a hard time with it learning what it does since I am familiar with my d40 Just ordered the d7000 and have d700 on order to check out. As you can tell I know my d40, but I dont......I have been constantly learning the camera over the past 3 years! I really always thought with the bright background, underexposed people that was just a bad picture and didnt really think about how it could be corrected....or if it could be.

    If you'll take what Pathfinder suggested; with the Shutter Speed, ISO and aperture you can do like I do, and not know another darned thing about your camera! No crap really. I often read posts here in dgrin and then look up in my manual to see what the fuss is about because all I know is manual mode. Knowing manual mode allowed me to have both a Canon and Nikon ( 5DMKII & D700) and shoot with both the last year or so. Manual Mode: it's for photos! :D
    tom wise
  • angevin1angevin1 Registered Users Posts: 3,403 Major grins
    edited September 20, 2011
    pathfinder wrote: »
    ........... incident light meters rule, especially in Hollywood where they are the only light meters used.

    I love my Sekonic L-358, but most folks have not ponied up for one, so they need to be able to understand the limitations of reflected meters.

    I'll probably puke the first time I ever use one...but really understanding the tools at hand cannot be overstated! Light....it is about light!:D
    tom wise
  • mstensmstens Registered Users Posts: 78 Big grins
    edited September 20, 2011
    angevin1 wrote: »
    I'll probably puke the first time I ever use one...but really understanding the tools at hand cannot be overstated! Light....it is about light!:D

    Hahahahah :D

    They really shine evaluating light, but that's a complete aside. I should have state so originally, but my point was sunny 16 is so accurate I trust it to effectively calibrate meters (including my own L-358). Really, the ultimate example is (and I think of this simply because I saw an original print last Friday) Moonrise, Hernandez, New Mexcio was shot without a meter. What else can you say about knowledge of light and evaluation. :D
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