Video Sales!

videoopp · September 30, 2011

A Big thanks to Smugmug for offering us the option to sell video clips. This is wonderful! Just a couple of quick questions, that did not seem to be covered in the blog.

Will the video that I upload, in the codec and format that I have used, be the same video that the client downloads, when they choose the full HD, or are you transcoding these. I understand that this is done so that other size resolutions can be made available, but will the client get the original file if they choose to purchase the full HD version. I believe that I have read that up until now, the original was discarded after Smugmug encoders did their thing....

Second question.... What about watermarking? I have set up a watermark on a test, but it is not showing up on the video.

www.worldviewvideos.smugmug.com

Thanks

Sheaf · September 30, 2011

videoopp wrote: »

A Big thanks to Smugmug for offering us the option to sell video clips. This is wonderful! Just a couple of quick questions, that did not seem to be covered in the blog.

Will the video that I upload, in the codec and format that I have used, be the same video that the client downloads, when they choose the full HD, or are you transcoding these. I understand that this is done so that other size resolutions can be made available, but will the client get the original file if they choose to purchase the full HD version. I believe that I have read that up until now, the original was discarded after Smugmug encoders did their thing....

Second question.... What about watermarking? I have set up a watermark on a test, but it is not showing up on the video.

www.worldviewvideos.smugmug.com

Thanks

We don't currently store the original video unless you add it to your SmugVault. Sorry, but it would be prohibitively expensive to store it as well as the numerous "display" copies. Since the display copies need to be the proper format for playback through our various players, we have to transcode the videos. So the codec will likely differ from the one you uploaded.

If the watermark is actually a part of the video, it should remain on the video after we transcode it. We are definitely looking into alternative methods so that your videos can be properly protected, yet not have watermarks when they are purchased. Sorry that we don't yet have a solution!

videoopp · October 1, 2011

Sheaf wrote: »

We don't currently store the original video unless you add it to your SmugVault. Sorry, but it would be prohibitively expensive to store it as well as the numerous "display" copies. Since the display copies need to be the proper format for playback through our various players, we have to transcode the videos. So the codec will likely differ from the one you uploaded.

If the watermark is actually a part of the video, it should remain on the video after we transcode it. We are definitely looking into alternative methods so that your videos can be properly protected, yet not have watermarks when they are purchased. Sorry that we don't yet have a solution!

Ahhhhhh. As I have given some thought to your model of sharing video, it is becoming clear why there is no watermark. You would have to encode 10 versions of every clip posted, 5 with and 5 without. I would suggest that you consider developing a new model for video sales, that gets away from a video sharing site to a stock sales site, at least for those that want to sell stock. My potential clients only need to see one small version of the video. They don't need, nor do I want to display large versions of the video. You could still offer all of the sizes, but make one more small version, with a watermark. This is essential! There are simply too many Internet thieves out there.

One more suggestion. For people who really want to sell stock, you may want to standardize the encoding process, and let us encode on our end before uploading. If I don't compress the video in some way, the uploading would become very tedious with the large file sizes, for the thousands of stock shots that I would want to upload. If we all encode our clips, according to your standards, the file sizes for your servers should be manageable, you could keep and use the original, it would make it easier for uploading, and our clients end up with a clip that only has one hit, for the HD Version. I know that you have set up a model where everyone, with no encoding experience can upload their camera clips and you take care of it, but I believe that those of us who are serious about selling stock, will be able to encode our clips, in whatever format you would like.

It scares me to think that the HD version of the clip is being hit with another encoding process, before being offered for sale. I have no idea what my clients would be downloading. Many of my clients like to bring clips into After Effects, and process them further. With so many hits, I worry that the clip would start to fall apart.

Thanks again for getting the ball rolling on selling video. I look forward to seeing how this develops!

Frank

rainforest1155 · October 2, 2011

Hi Frank,

Regarding the recoding of your full HD video, you could just use our encoding settings for the video you upload and thus minimize the recoding we have to do on our end. You can find our video specs for the different video sizes here:
http://help.smugmug.com/customer/portal/articles/84563-video-details-and-specs

Sebastian

videoopp · October 2, 2011

rainforest1155 wrote: »

Hi Frank,

Regarding the recoding of your full HD video, you could just use our encoding settings for the video you upload and thus minimize the recoding we have to do on our end. You can find our video specs for the different video sizes here:
http://help.smugmug.com/customer/portal/articles/84563-video-details-and-specs

Sebastian

Thanks for the link. That at least helps me know what the client would be getting.

Does this mean that if your encoder sees that I have met your specs they will not re-encode? I am guessing that your automated system will re-encode it and a hit is a hit.

rainforest1155 · October 2, 2011

Frank,

I'm not sure on the technical details, but if the bitrate and other settings are the same or close to what we use, there shouldn't be much of a difference between your uploaded version and the equivalent file on SmugMug.

Sebastian

videoopp · October 2, 2011

rainforest1155 wrote: »

Frank,

I'm not sure on the technical details, but if the bitrate and other settings are the same or close to what we use, there shouldn't be much of a difference between your uploaded version and the equivalent file on SmugMug.

Sebastian

Yeah, I could be wrong on this too. I am not a encoding engineer, but it seems only logical that for the same reason that you don't want to open and re-save jpegs, you don't want to do the same with compressed video files. Every generation, even if it is saved at the same compression rate, is going to take a hit.

In the life span of a stock video file, it is already going to take four or five hits before it is seen on the home monitor. Clients are going to want and expect to get a file that is as clean as possible. Taking a second hit right at the server, when not necessary, if we can encode to Smugmugs desired codec and bit rate, seems like an unusual model of delivery of stock clips. Broadcasters and documentary producers are discriminating clients and if we are not able to offer them a robust file, they are going to be coming back for a refund, or at least, not likely to return.

On another point, is this the right forum for this discussion? Should we be talking about this in the video forum? I would be interested in hearing from more producers, and potential clients on this wonderful new feature at Smugmug.

SamirD · October 2, 2011

The question of re-encoding has definitely come up in the past, mainly for processing and display purposes.

But as we enter the avenue where people may buy these clips, these issues become much more important as Frank pointed out.

My main concern on video is the ability to watermark. There are players that automatically overlay a watermark, and this would be sufficient for me.

As far as sales, I don't know how this is actually going to work for me. I have thousands of clips, but I don't know for what purpose someone would buy one for. Once I figure that out, I'll know the challenges in selling the product.

videoopp · October 4, 2011

Video Sales Issues
Sorry if this is the wrong place to be posting these questions... Let me know if it should be in Video.. Perhaps we need a new category... (Video Sales?)

I am excited to start uploading clips, and using this new service but from the tests that I have done, I am struggling with some issues:

1. Watermarking - Any word when this is coming? Without this, I would not be able to use this service. This would not have to be on all sizes, just one. In fact it is not necessary or wise, to offer all sizes for display or viewing, for the purposes of selling stock video. (This might mean that a whole new model for video sales, that gets away from the video sharing model.)

2. Video Display Size - Currently, there does not seem to be any setting to limit the display size of the video. In gallery settings, I have set the Image display size to the smallest setting (medium) and this has no effect. I am guessing that this only applies to images only. If it is not possible, or feasible to change the design model for video sales, we at least need to have a place where we can limit the size that is displayed, probably the smallest size offered and be able to have watermarking turned on for this smallest size.

3. In my test, even after setting prices for video downloads, no option appears to "Buy Video", even when logged out. Does the gallery need to have prices set for images, in order for this to appear?

Thanks for your help

Frank

SamirD · October 4, 2011

I'm right there with you Frank. These are my exact concerns as well.

videoopp · October 5, 2011

Alright, I figured out why I had no "Buy" tab showing up. In gallery settings, I had turned "Printing" off. This disables the shopping cart.

However .... In my testing, I have discovered a new problem that makes this feature unusable for selling stock video, at least for me. There is WAY too much compression going on. As an example, a video that I encoded to h264, at settings that are appropriate, or at least passable for broadcast use, rendered a 16 second clip to a file size of about 180M. Once re-encoded by Smugmug, the same file even at HD is compressed down to 8M.

While this may have been fine for the concept of video sharing, SmugMug will need to address this issue, if it truly intends to let us set up sites for stock video sales. Clips at this compression would be refused by all video producers and broadcasters.

I applaud Smugmug for working towards providing us with the ability to sell stock video, but they are going to have make a serious re-evaluation of it's compression rates in order for this to be a viable option.

Could we please have our own forum so that we can monitor progress, and more appropriately offer input for the development of this wonderful new option? There does not seem to be any feedback given by the Smug mug heros that are working on this project, here under proSales.

Thanks so much!

Frank

SamirD · October 5, 2011

I don't think SM is approaching video sales as stock sales. To be honest, I don't know what their approach is.

Video sales have not exactly been a proven business model as even the networks are giving away their content (shows) for free and then running advertising.

videoopp · October 5, 2011

SamirD wrote: »

I don't think SM is approaching video sales as stock sales. To be honest, I don't know what their approach is. Video sales have not exactly been a proven business model as even the networks are giving away their content (shows) for free and then running advertising.

I have been doing fairly well with stock video, at Pond5. I am just finding that over the last couple of years they have polluted their site with a lot of bad video clips, and it is making it harder for stock researchers to find the good stuff. Plus, Pond5 takes 50% commission so it would be great to get something workable here at smug mug, with just my own stuff. With google it will be just as easy for researchers to find well key worded stock.

Yeah, I hear you about the fact that this does not seem to be targeting stock sellers as much as event producers, as a convenient way to deliver long programs. I really don't think that this is a good solution for selling video programs. So many people are not connected enough, or savvy enough to work with videos delivered like this. Grandma is going to want a disc. And if you are shooting my daughter's wedding, you can be sure that I am not going to be happy with the compression that you would have to put on a one hour program to keep a HD video under 1G! If I am paying you 4K to shoot a wedding for me, you had better be handing me at least 10, properly encoded BR discs!

videoopp · October 6, 2011

Video Sales from the Vault?

Sheaf wrote: »

We don't currently store the original video unless you add it to your SmugVault. Sorry, but it would be prohibitively expensive to store it as well as the numerous "display" copies. Since the display copies need to be the proper format for playback through our various players, we have to transcode the videos. So the codec will likely differ from the one you uploaded.

If the watermark is actually a part of the video, it should remain on the video after we transcode it. We are definitely looking into alternative methods so that your videos can be properly protected, yet not have watermarks when they are purchased. Sorry that we don't yet have a solution!

Sorry that this thread is turning into a monologue. Please interpret this as enthusiasm not complaining!

I have been doing the math on my original encodes and they are on average about 250Megs Each. So for the 4000 or so clips that I would like to upload to get started, that would come close to 1T of storage for just the original files. Given the costs at Amazon storage, I can see what you mean about storing our original files as being cost prohibitive for Smug Mug, for the cost of a Pro Account plus 15%.

Let's say, as you suggest, that I did upload to the Vault and pay the monthly fees for that, is there any way to tie in the current Video Sales feature, so that my clients would be actually getting my original files from the vault, rather then Smug Mug's, re-encode of the HD version?

rainforest1155 · October 10, 2011

videoopp wrote: »

Let's say, as you suggest, that I did upload to the Vault and pay the monthly fees for that, is there any way to tie in the current Video Sales feature, so that my clients would be actually getting my original files from the vault, rather then Smug Mug's, re-encode of the HD version?

While that's not something we currently offer (unless I'm missing something as the feature is still new), it sounds like a great suggestion for our feedback pages:
http://feedback.smugmug.com/forums/17723-smugmug
Thanks!

Sebastian

videoopp · October 11, 2011

OK. I have added the request....

Not to be in any way cynacle, it took three years to get digital downloads for video, added to the shopping cart. Any chance that this will be added any time soon? It seems this idea is likely more complex to code and customize for what will probably only be a few brave souls. I am not sure that there are too many stock video shooters here at SM.

Frank

Andy · October 18, 2011

videoopp wrote: »

OK. I have added the request....

Not to be in any way cynacle, it took three years to get digital downloads for video, added to the shopping cart. Any chance that this will be added any time soon? It seems this idea is likely more complex to code and customize for what will probably only be a few brave souls. I am not sure that there are too many stock video shooters here at SM.

Frank

I'm not optimistic Frank but you never know. For now, enjoy the vid sales from your site!

Video Sales!

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