color to b&w conversion trick

zero-zerozero-zero Registered Users Posts: 147 Major grins
edited April 12, 2007 in Finishing School
Picked up this trick from Andrew Rodney, a well-respected PS expert. Maybe everyone knows how to do this, but just in case:
  • Open your color file in PS. Add two Hue/saturation adjustment layers on top, no changes.
  • Set the top layer saturation to zero.
  • Set the middle layer mode to color, and invoke the Hue/saturation dialog.
  • Go wild with the sliders. Instant feedback, infinitely adjustable variations.
There are many ways to skin a cat in Photoshop, but this one beats channel- mixing to a pulp for this purpose, IMO. Enjoy!

ON EDIT: I MISTAKENLY SAID "COLORIZE" SHOULD BE ON. WRONG, IT SHOULD BE OFF. Sleep deprivation, I guess...

Comments

  • patch29patch29 Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 2,928 Major grins
    edited January 23, 2004
    zero-zero wrote:
    Picked up this trick from Andrew Rodney, a well-respected PS expert. Maybe everyone knows how to do this, but just in case:
    • Open your color file in PS. Add two Hue/saturation adjustment layers on top, no changes.
    • Set the top layer saturation to zero.
    • Set the middle layer mode to color, and invoke the Hue/saturation dialog.
    • Click "colorize" and go wild with the sliders. Instant feedback, infinitely adjustable variations.
    There are many ways to skin a cat in Photoshop, but this one beats channel- mixing to a pulp for this purpose, IMO. Enjoy!

    I will have to give that one a go. I have had good results so far with the channel mixer.

    Andrew is a great guy. I attended one of his seminars on color management. It taught me how to make everything work well and get consistent results. I have been to several seminars that did not deliver much content.
  • DoctorItDoctorIt Administrators Posts: 11,951 moderator
    edited January 23, 2004
    are you referring to "channel mix" method like this:

    http://www.bythom.com/bandw.htm

    I'll try your way, but thom's has worked very well, and very easy. BTW, have you guys read thom's resume?!! I'm convinced he's a super computer robot.
    Erik
    moderator of: The Flea Market [ guidelines ]

  • fishfish Registered Users Posts: 2,950 Major grins
    edited January 23, 2004
    zero-zero wrote:
    Picked up this trick from Andrew Rodney, a well-respected PS expert. Maybe everyone knows how to do this, but just in case:
    • Open your color file in PS. Add two Hue/saturation adjustment layers on top, no changes.
    • Set the top layer saturation to zero.
    • Set the middle layer mode to color, and invoke the Hue/saturation dialog.
    • Click "colorize" and go wild with the sliders. Instant feedback, infinitely adjustable variations.
    There are many ways to skin a cat in Photoshop, but this one beats channel- mixing to a pulp for this purpose, IMO. Enjoy!

    I played with this and found the results (Elements) to be the same as simply Enhance > Adjust color > Remove color. ne_nau.gif Maybe I'm doing something wrong?
    "Consulting the rules of composition before taking a photograph, is like consulting the laws of gravity before going for a walk." - Edward Weston
    "The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."-Hunter S.Thompson
  • patch29patch29 Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 2,928 Major grins
    edited January 23, 2004
    fish wrote:
    I played with this and found the results (Elements) to be the same as simply Enhance > Adjust color > Remove color. ne_nau.gif Maybe I'm doing something wrong?

    It should give you an effect when you move the slider. It will be similar to shooting B&W with color filters, no filter the sky looks lighter, red filter sky darkens and clouds pop out. I am not sure if PSE has all of the features described. ne_nau.gif
  • zero-zerozero-zero Registered Users Posts: 147 Major grins
    edited January 23, 2004
    What Patch said. By the way, I included a bad step in the trick, "colorize" should not be on. I edited the first post, but just in case...

    fish, playing with the slider should allow you to adjust the relationships between tones as I did in the example below (not my pic). The beauty of this method is that it's WYSIWYG, and faster than the channel mixer.

    Roberto
  • fishfish Registered Users Posts: 2,950 Major grins
    edited January 23, 2004
    I'm just not getting that effect. I've got the layers set (i think) and using Layer > Layer Content Options... > hue/saturation slider thingy.
    "Consulting the rules of composition before taking a photograph, is like consulting the laws of gravity before going for a walk." - Edward Weston
    "The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."-Hunter S.Thompson
  • patch29patch29 Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 2,928 Major grins
    edited January 23, 2004
    fish wrote:
    I'm just not getting that effect. I've got the layers set (i think) and using Layer > Layer Content Options... > hue/saturation slider thingy.

    Do you have two adjustment layers?


    zero-zero wrote:
    [*]Set the top layer saturation to zero.

    When you set this it is actually sliding the saturation all the way to the left resulting in a -100 on screen in the saturation box, correct? Thereby giving you a de-saturated image.
  • fishfish Registered Users Posts: 2,950 Major grins
    edited January 23, 2004
    Hot dog! Patchy, yer a genius...and/or I'm a dope. rolleyes1.gif

    Thanks zippy!
    "Consulting the rules of composition before taking a photograph, is like consulting the laws of gravity before going for a walk." - Edward Weston
    "The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."-Hunter S.Thompson
  • patch29patch29 Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 2,928 Major grins
    edited January 23, 2004
    fish wrote:
    Hot dog! Patchy, yer a genius...and/or I'm a dope. rolleyes1.gif

    Thanks zippy!

    Try it on some photos with lots of large parts of bright primary colors and blue skies, that will show the greatest changes. Look for blues, reds, green, yellow and watch them change. If you have some photos from your Disney trips they might work well.
  • fishfish Registered Users Posts: 2,950 Major grins
    edited January 23, 2004
    patch29 wrote:
    Try it on some photos with lots of large parts of bright primary colors and blue skies, that will show the greatest changes. Look for blues, reds, green, yellow and watch them change. If you have some photos from your Disney trips they might work well.

    fun.
    "Consulting the rules of composition before taking a photograph, is like consulting the laws of gravity before going for a walk." - Edward Weston
    "The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."-Hunter S.Thompson
  • fishfish Registered Users Posts: 2,950 Major grins
    edited January 23, 2004
    btw, that's my son's hat on top of Goofy's head rolleyes1.gif

    1924727-M.jpg
    "Consulting the rules of composition before taking a photograph, is like consulting the laws of gravity before going for a walk." - Edward Weston
    "The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."-Hunter S.Thompson
  • patch29patch29 Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 2,928 Major grins
    edited January 23, 2004
    fish wrote:
    btw, that's my son's hat on top of Goofy's head rolleyes1.gif

    Fish Goofy was perfect. Here are some of the different version you can make and the adjustments look.
  • fishfish Registered Users Posts: 2,950 Major grins
    edited January 23, 2004
    Funny how you really only see the difference in Goofy's shirt.
    "Consulting the rules of composition before taking a photograph, is like consulting the laws of gravity before going for a walk." - Edward Weston
    "The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."-Hunter S.Thompson
  • patch29patch29 Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 2,928 Major grins
    edited January 23, 2004
    fish wrote:
    Funny how you really only see the difference in Goofy's shirt.

    If you have a blue sky with a good white cloud pattern it will really make them pop.
  • patch29patch29 Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 2,928 Major grins
    edited January 23, 2004
    This is not the best cloud shot, but it does show some difference.
  • wxwaxwxwax Registered Users Posts: 15,471 Major grins
    edited January 24, 2004
    Reveals other things too...
    Sid.
    Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
    http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
  • ShakeyShakey Registered Users Posts: 1,004 Major grins
    edited January 31, 2004
    My A80 has B/W and sepia settings ,should I just dump these and always shoot in color and use editing software instead?
    Sure having a color master is nice but I liken it to the hunt . It is all in the capture for me ... however most of my photography is catch and release at best lol.

    So am I wrong to use these settings and therefore would I be better off just shooting in color always?
  • wxwaxwxwax Registered Users Posts: 15,471 Major grins
    edited January 31, 2004
    You might try it both ways on some test shots and see which you prefer - shooting B&W, or converting to B&W in post.
    Sid.
    Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
    http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
  • fishfish Registered Users Posts: 2,950 Major grins
    edited January 31, 2004
    Shakey wrote:
    So am I wrong to use these settings and therefore would I be better off just shooting in color always?
    Do you only use third gear? Try different stuff. I like the way my S400 does sepia. Funnily, my camera that cost five times as much doesn't do in-camera effects eek7.gif

    There are some awesome B&W filters out there. I found one that emulates colored filters (red, yellow, cyan, etc) so the image looks like you shot on b&W film, with those filters on the lens. Ain't computers grand? 1drink.gif
    "Consulting the rules of composition before taking a photograph, is like consulting the laws of gravity before going for a walk." - Edward Weston
    "The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."-Hunter S.Thompson
  • wxwaxwxwax Registered Users Posts: 15,471 Major grins
    edited January 31, 2004
    Your searching made me do the same thing, Fish. I'm surprised at the number of freeware plug-ins for Photoshop. Lots of them seem to do the same thing as PS, only quicker. But some do it so much faster and with much more skill than I could muster.
    Sid.
    Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
    http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
  • soupsoup Registered Users Posts: 78 Big grins
    edited February 27, 2004
    heres a photoshop action set that sets up the hue/saturation layers for you.
    you can download the action, and then drag it into the actions panel to get it to work
    shift + F4 activates it.

    hue/saturation link
    - for sale -
  • I SimoniusI Simonius Registered Users Posts: 1,034 Major grins
    edited April 12, 2007
    I found out about the hue/saturation (adjustment layers) usefulness by mucking about trying different things for B+W

    I didn't know about adjustment layers so when they were pointed out to me I tried them all - lots!

    I find them very useful AFTER doing other adjustments like levels or curves etc so (i.e. exposure, contrast etc) when you have got pretty close to what you want but it's not quite there, you can get that extra shift with HS really easily ;-)

    I'm not an expert by any means just a trial and error kinda guy...:D
    Veni-Vidi-Snappii
    ...pics..
  • colourboxcolourbox Registered Users Posts: 2,095 Major grins
    edited April 12, 2007
    Shakey wrote:
    My A80 has B/W and sepia settings ,should I just dump these and always shoot in color and use editing software instead?

    That's up to you. Here's a story. I never trusted the camera's black and white mode, so I've learned some of these B&W conversion tricks so I can get the "best" conversion. Then one day I was looking at a friend's digital B&W images, and I said "Hey, these look great. Which conversion method do you use?" He said "Uh...the black and white mode on the camera."

    What you might want to do is shoot the same image in black and white and color in the camera, then take the color one and make the best B&W conversion you can, and compare it to the B&W from the camera, and see which one you prefer. If the camera makes perfectly good B&W, maybe that's all you need.

    The advantage of knowing the manual methods is that you can adapt them for different color relationships when the situation calls for it. The camera just does what it does and you're stuck with it.

    A middle ground is to shoot Raw, make a preset of a favorite B&W conversion, and apply it to an incoming shoot. Then you can apply it to all the incoming images at once. If you later need to edit the conversion or recover the color, you can still do that.
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