Pro-Photography at local park(s) not allowed

PupWeb

Hello dgrin family I have a problem that I am asking for advice /guidance on.
The Plan
I was wanting to set up family portrait mini sessions at a popular park in my hometown. I haven't done a lot of family portraits but I have a lot of clients wanting my service and having a day with a lot of clients, I could offer a lower sitting fee. I was going to rent a shelter to set up an easel with prints and also serve as a place for clients to sit down, pick poses and order. I do SOOooooo much better when I sell the portraits at the photo shoot and people will buy more if they see what they'll get. So having the sale on site was important along with physical prints on display. My assistant(wife) would prepare the photos in LR as they come in from my camera wirelessly so when I am done shooting they go to my wife to order and I start with the next family. That was the plan but....
The Problem
My local town has Town Ordinances that do not allow any business on public property. First they said no b/c money is exchanged at the park, I changed my plan and said money will not be exchanged at the park but at a later time. Still no since I am doing business.
I then tried another public venue that I see other photogs in my area set up mini session days but that was also denied on the same grounds or you pay a large rental fee.
I see other pro photogs shooting portraits at these places so do they do it on the sneak or what?
Thinking of a solution
A neighboring town allows pro-photo in there public places, I could go there but I'm not so sure b/c the park in our town is important to the families.
I am thinking about booking one family at a time (charge more retainer) and take photos at their house close the deal at their house and since we are friends now. We can go to the park for some family fun

Have any of ya'll ran into this type of issue and how did you get around it?

johng

David - it's quite common for there to be restrictions on the use of public property. It's one thing to go to a location and take your photos. That happens everywhere. But if you're talking about 'setting up shop' in a picnic area - displaying photos, discussing business, etc. that's something completely different. That's what will get you into trouble. Do all the business elsewhere, reserve your time in the park for just the photo taking and you shouldn't run into any issues. If you're just there taking photos no one is going to complain. People will complain when you're monopolizing resources. And it's those complaints that will cause a problem. A cop isn't going to stop over and issue a citation because you're taking photos. But if they see you have easels set up in the picnic area and you're sitting there with laptop and portfolio book laid open, that might get you one.

Sam

You need to be careful at these locations, and contrary to johng, it will depend on the city, the park and the park rangers whether or not they stop you.

If you bring OCF, umbrellas and stands I would anticipate issues, and setting up a booth will definitely not fly.

You can call ahead and determine what their policies are. Talk to other photographers, or take your chances.

Sam

idiotabroad

One speedlight with an umbrella if noone is paying specific attention, I've done that. Also forget all the extra displays and easel junk, that's also known as stealing public property for your make shift studio. Now for the good news, shoot all you can and then use an ipad to show them their pictures, be selective what you show as not all photos will be customer "grade". Then if they are super charged about buying at that moment use a cell phone that can swipe CC's. Everyone has them these days. It's quick and simple and most of all it's not disturbing the peace.

angevin1

Yes! NC: Land of fear! Love it and do not miss it!

I did same as you, but big caveat. I didn't try to set up a temporary viewing-station right in the park/s. No worries. Just go, shoot , and have fun. Your home or office is the place to take care of business, not a public park!

On the other hand it can be had for a fee. Pay the fee if you want to drag out the biz-port to view!

I did some of both in NC.

PupWeb

I am glad you guys have dealt with these issues before, Thank you for the advice!

johng and idiotabroad-I can see were "setting up" shop would look bad, but I am concerned about umbrellas causing too much attention, I guess I could have someone hold a speedlight. It sucks getting kicked out or having the cops come out.

angevin-If I recall I think you used to live in NC so you know how it is. I'm talking about Garner NC.

Sam & angevin- Great idea, The town next to Garner, Cary allows pro-photography in public places. All you have to do is fill out a form so the town will know what you are doing as far as local impact. If there is going to be any need for extra town resources for large shoots(movie companies and such) a fee will be accessed. For small things like what I am talking about the fee is small. Cary's philosophy is to promote business in the arts.

What Garner does is, if a big production company wants to film/photograph in town they create a "special event" to get around their own ordinance. Thats what they did when all the American Idol - related media crews were filming in the city. It's a little good ol'boy southern politics if you ask me.

Art Scott

I shoot in the parks all the time.....never had a problem....but I do not carry even a small studio with me....camera , flash on a flash bracket.....recently I have seen a couple of photogs with assistants holding the ocf on a stick and couple of umbrellas...in an edge of town park...not down town.....cops here are sort like the gestapo or SS at times but I have done modeling sessions less than a block from city hall

jarboedoggart

I don't think the problem is taking pictures at a park... that's awfully common. I do it all the time with OCF and an assistant. It is the set-up of a complete business that is a problem. I tend to agree with the authorities that a "start-finish" studio set-up in a public park is not appropriate.

Glort

The US seems so much more uptight than what i'm used to here but if you tried setting up what your proposing here youd get short shifted real fast as well unless you had gone through all the hoops and red tape that would kill the viability of the exercise before it began.

taking pics would be another thing and for the most part, as long as you didn't have a production that stopped others using that part of the park, you'd be fine.

idiotabroad

@ Sam - I can't remember the last time I saw a park ranger. I guess they are out of frame, lol. @ Glort - Hell yea were uptight, we have people hugging one side of a tree while the other side is being cut down. @ OP - basically you have the same luck in Vegas as you will with the whole set up shop idea. Good luck and let us know how it goes down, even if it has to be after you post bail.

Glort

idiotabroad wrote: »

Good luck and let us know how it goes down, even if it has to be after you post bail.

WOW!

You are an uptight bunch there!
I was thinking fine here but prison...... Far out!!!

:ivar

Sam

Glort wrote: »

WOW!

You are an uptight bunch there!
I was thinking fine here but prison...... Far out!!!

:ivar

Glort,

Yes and no on the uptight. Those who are not uptight have no say over those who are, especially those in power. Without going into a lengthy discussion on the nature of man and politics it's inevitable that without some pretty iron clad restrictions / inhibitors / placed on those who are ether entrusted with or grab power, that in the name of good, more and more government intrusion will develop.

Now to the point of my post: If your photographing on your own or with friends, go for it I say. But and it's a big but, if you call yourself a professional and your scheduling a photo shoot with clients you really can't take the risk of getting kicked out of a location. It's our obligation to know these things.

Example: Last Saturday I shot a sorority bid day event in a Santa Cruz City park. There were about 75 girls. It had to be shot that day. No rescheduling for any reason. I checked with the city and yes they required a permit for professional photography. (I had lights and an assistant.) It only took me two phone calls to the city to get the permit, no charge. When I did the shoot no one approached and asked about permits, but I couldn't take the chance with their once in a life time event. So I look at it as insurance, cheap insurance.

I can't change the system, but I can make sure the system doesn't ruin my clients day.

Sam

PupWeb

idiotabroad "...even if it has to be after you post bail." too funny . Even though it could happen, Garner PD are top notch though so I doubt it would come to that unless I act like an @$$.

Sam is right as far as Garner's ordinance, they don't care about setting up a mobile studio as much as doing any business out at the park. As a matter of fact since I would be renting shelter space my "mobile studio" would not be in anyones way. If I took a picture with my i-phone and put it for sale it is technically against their ordinance. On the other hand I could legally bring a prop have full light setup, grips and take photos legally as long as I am not doing it as part of a business.

PupWeb

Photos of my boys
I actually took these photos of my boys with out any problem. I had an OCF on a light stand. See the lake in the background, makes a great background.



I will abandon the Lake Benson idea, as I do not want to break any laws. I may bring this up at the next town council meeting to see if we can change the ordinance along the lines of neighboring towns. I will look into Cary for my park photo shoots in the near future.

I agree with Sam it is always better to check with the city

Glort

Are there any private properties around you could do a deal with the owners to use?

A mate of mine lives on land that backs into an incredibly scenic bit of national park.
Technically I suppose I'm not suppose to shoot there either but as the place is completely secluded, there is zero chance of anyone having an issue with it.

The place is about 30 Min from mine so nice and close. The scenery is awsome and I have don'e loads of model shoots there but the only killer drawback is that it's in a valley and the hill climb out of there is a killer which really shows the age difference between me and my clients.
That said, some of these young girls have proven to be a lot more unfit than me and they weren't carrying 20 Kg of camera crap.

If there are any nice places near you, maybe you could do a deal with the owners for say a session and some prints of their own to let you use their place?
This way you can take pics, set up lighting, props, a sales area and whatever else you like and you don't have to worry about the local council or their ordinances.

There is a place here which is a very scenic nursery that allows people in for wedding pics for a nominal charge to cover the bookings they make so as to avoid 10 lots of people turning up at once. It seems it brings them a bit of business with people actually coming to see the weddings as well as buy plants and have a coffee in their cafe.

Perhaps you could look at possible places like this as well?

The beauty with this idea is you could offer different themes for the shoots..... the garden setting, the western/country setting, the waters edge setting.... etc.

idiotabroad

A Glort continuation. the mug shot setting, the finger printing session, the drive by scene and last but not least the indecent "exposure" scene. hahaha i so funny with me puns.

Jamfore

I think some of that could come from the wrong kind of people at parks taking pictures of children in the wrong kind of way. The police here are always catching pervs at the park. I think your town is just being protective.

idiotabroad

Try flashing one of those "purchased" press passes from the internet, maybe that would get you farther. OR just give them a business card, which of course will trigger one of two possibilities. first - wow your good here, he knows what hes doing, on your way with it. OR second - business? wheres your license and tax info and last irs filing and your workers comp papers blah blah blah. So stick with the smaller setup and the idea of shoot till the cops come and then run like hell. And remember you don't have to outrun the cops, you just have to outrun someone else in your group. lol. I'm sure you will be fine. @jamfore - thats just sick, those people need to be beat with a stick.