Competitve Cheer--Camera to buy?

KatyDKatyD Registered Users Posts: 4 Beginner grinner
edited October 24, 2011 in Sports
My daughter is involved in competitve cheer. My son in basketball and baseball. Time to get a new camera :-)

I used to be really into cameras, some 20 plus years ago and now i remember nada. I own a point and shot and have worked with an automatic with inter changeable lenses years ago (An SLR), so on to the digital age.

I want to be able to use something now, but work up to really using and understanding about the ISO, the wide aperature, the filters, etc...but I am a quick learner and want some advice on the type of digital camera to get.

I would like to have one that also shoots video. Advice? Additional questions also.

Thanks--and remember, competitive cheer is fast moving and in stage lights with audience in the dark...and sometimes the lighting shows off as orange, etc.

Also, can I edit photographs with photoshop or ? any good programs AFTER shooting if they show up as orange or blue?

Thanks and please help....

Just a mom looking to get some great shots of my kids--starting with competitive cheer...since basketball doesn't start for a month or two.

Comments

  • KMCCKMCC Registered Users Posts: 717 Major grins
    edited October 19, 2011
    Katy,

    The scope of the questions you have asked is vast and there aren't any quick answers; certainly not a single answer.

    It sounds to me like you need to spend some time at a local camera store or reading some of the digital camera review websites ( http://www.dpreview.com/ or http://www.steves-digicams.com ) to try to narrow down just what it is you're looking for in a camera.

    The camera is only the first step. To get good results shooting the types of events you're interested in, the lenses are going to be as important, if not more so, than the camera.

    Kent
    "Not everybody trusts paintings, but people believe photographs."- Ansel Adams
    Web site
  • HelvegrHelvegr Registered Users Posts: 246 Major grins
    edited October 19, 2011
    I agree the scope of the question is pretty vast. I understand the feeling though. Price is going to be a big factor I think with your ultimate selection. If you are just looking take some good shots for friends and family, then probably just about anything you get will get you started. It will force you to focus heavily on your skills though at times to make up for any limitations in your gear.

    If you are rolling in money, then of course you could buy top of the line everything and be assured that the gear wont really be a limitation to your shots, only your own skills.

    Stick around though and let us know what you are thinking, the community here is good at guiding people towards good decisions.
    Camera: Nikon D4
    Lenses: Nikon 70-200 f/2.8 VR II | Nikon 24-70 f/2.8 | Nikon 50mm f/1.4
    Lighting: SB-910 | SU-800
  • Rocketman766Rocketman766 Registered Users Posts: 332 Major grins
    edited October 19, 2011
    My first thought on this one is "why not just enjoy the event and check out the pics from the onsite photog"... (just kidding, sorta since this is what I do mostly), also what is your budget? I don't shoot video so I could be wrong here, but to get into a DSLR with video and good enough glass to get the good shots, you are probably looking at a minimum investment of $1500? The workhorse lense for all star cheer is the 70-200 f/2.8L, you don't need the IS version here. If you want to shoot a prime, maybe look at the 85mm f/1.8 or the 100mm f/2 if your on a tighter budget. I can't suggest the right body because I don't keep up with the video abilities but I think your looking at close to $1k there, less used??

    As far as those orange tones, you may be experiencing some bad lighting there, could be the lights cycling. Best thing to do is get the white balance right from the beginning which is a whole different topic there, with tons of info on the boards here.
  • T. BombadilT. Bombadil Registered Users Posts: 286 Major grins
    edited October 19, 2011
    KatyD wrote: »
    My daughter is involved in competitve cheer. My son in basketball and baseball. Time to get a new camera :-)

    The baseball and cheering (if outside) will be easier to accomplish (well, cheaper anyway) than basketball.

    Like you, I got back into photography after many years due to a child's interest in sports. With "enthusiast" level gear, you can do a lot when there is plenty of light. I happen to use Nikon gear - a Nikon D80 (old. anything you buy now would be better: D3100, D5100, or D7000 which range up to a little over $1,000) with a Nikon 70-300mm f/4-5.6 zoom lens (that I think costs about $800).

    That lens is very nice when used outdoors. It can't let as much light through as a professional grade f/2.8 lens can - but you need lots of light to be able to set your shutter speed fast enough to prevent camera shake and stop sports motion (harder to hold the camera steady enough when you are zoomed across the field than when you are using a "normal" lens).

    So, more expensive lens lets in more light. More expensive camera can be more sensitive to light (eg., Nikon D700 - note "7 hundred" is very different than "7 thousand" though model #s sometimes look like typos) without adding "noise" to the image. Both features would be helpful, but add cost. I think you could do very nicely with a Nikon D7000 and a 70-300mm f/4-5.6 lens, then decide how aggressively you want to pursue images in lower light situations. That is something less than a $2,000 proposition. If that seems like too much, study the cheaper bodies but don't try to go cheaper on lenses (they will still be useful to you if/when you get a fancier camera body). Other manufacturers make quality gear also - I'm only giving Nikon examples because that is what I am familiar with.

    If you know that you want photos from indoor events and their are professional photographers selling them - buying images is certainly more cost effective. Only go down the do-it-yourself road if you think you will also enjoy the process a bit.

    KatyD wrote: »
    Thanks--and remember, competitive cheer is fast moving and in stage lights with audience in the dark...and sometimes the lighting shows off as orange, etc.

    Also, can I edit photographs with photoshop or ? any good programs AFTER shooting if they show up as orange or blue?

    Audience can be in the dark, but I'm guessing that the stage performers are lit "bright as day". If that is the case, you don't need hyper-sensitive gear because what you want photographed is really well lit. So the gear I mentioned above might do the job.

    I suggest you learn what it means to shoot RAW images (actually easier to do with the camera. the extra work is later on your computer). A RAW image gives you complete control over the white balance, which means you will be able to prevent unwanted orange tinted images.

    I suggest you consider Apple Aperture (for Mac) or Adobe Lightroom (for Mac or PC). Either can do everything you need, including convert the RAW images and keep your photos organized. I wouldnt think you need Photoshop (it is expensive. don't buy it until _you_ know you need it).

    There are some long-standing "wars" (Coke vs Pepsi, Mac vs PC, Nikon vs Canon, RAW vs JPEG, etc.) so you will find strong opinions exist for and against any specific recommendation. When it comes to the question of RAW images, the short story is that it relies less on your camera (and on you setting your camera correctly) and more on what you do with the image on your computer (after the sporting event, when you have time). When you shoot JPEG, the camera processes the image for you (according to some settings you have indicated or the auto mode you chose).

    There are facts and techniques to be learned in either scenario (shooting RAW or JPEG), it is just a matter of whether you want to count on "getting it right in camera" (and being essentially done) or have the luxury of great latitude later (and having some work to do for the priviledge). I use both on different occasions, but if I were shooting a cheering event with changing lighting I would be inclined to use RAW.

    Good Luck!
    Bruce

    Chooka chooka hoo la ley
    Looka looka koo la ley
  • northcoastnorthcoast Registered Users Posts: 66 Big grins
    edited October 20, 2011
    KatyD wrote: »
    My daughter is involved in competitve cheer. My son in basketball and baseball. Time to get a new camera :-)

    ...

    Just a mom looking to get some great shots of my kids--starting with competitive cheer...since basketball doesn't start for a month or two.

    KatyD,

    Welcome to the forum! I'm just a dad that is still attempting to get good shots of the kids. My son does hockey/lacross and my daughter is in competitive cheer. What I have learned for competitive cheer is that you will need a good lens (as mentioned by others) or two lenses. Let me explain. If you have access to the floor, as you will for many competitions, you will want a normal focal length prime/zoom lens at f/2.8 because you may right next to the stage/mat. There are other times where you are farther back from the stage/mat and need a good tele/zoom, again at f/2.8. This may also be true for basketball. I use both a 14-54mm and a 50-200mm (@ f/2.8-3.5).

    Sometimes the lighting is very good (a.k.a. the larger production competitions) and other times the lighting is under the same conditions as basketball gyms - because it is a basketball gym. This is why "good" glass is more than a nice to have. I won't get into the camera brand debate. I shoot Olympus and I'm in the minority when sports/action is concerned. But I can say from experience that a good, new Canon/Nikon with a less expensive zoom @ f/5.6 would not hold up to an aged camera shooting at f/2.8 in less than ideal lighting. Buy "a nice lens" for whatever camera/brand you decide to go shoot and you'll be taking great shots from the start...

    I'm am going into my second year of shooting cheer and I am still learning. When I upgraded from the kit lenses to something better it made a big difference.

    1241569334_Evmwv-L.jpg

    Best regards,
    -Mark
  • KatyDKatyD Registered Users Posts: 4 Beginner grinner
    edited October 20, 2011
    Thank you!
    Okay, a little more of an update! I am thinking maybe I need to change it up a bit :-) I would like a couple of nice shots of my daughter. As for buying the prints at competitions, I would LOVE It--I have only bought one grouping as most of the time, she isn't included OR they are NOT flattering :-)

    I would love to be able to take some shots and get close up and be able to have memories...don't necessarily need to have every shot :-) but love the action shots of her :-)

    You all have given me a lot to think about and I love photography. I definitely want to stay around and see all of the great shots.

    Am heading to Columbus Ohio next week for first cheer competition of the year, can't wait --and hoping there are some nice shots of her *lol*
  • roletterolette Registered Users Posts: 223 Major grins
    edited October 20, 2011
    Not sure about cheer competitions, but in big club volleyball tournaments, you can pay to have someone come shoot *your* kid vs. the usual luck of the draw stuff.

    Given the costs associated with the necessary equipment, if you aren't really into doing it yourself, that may be a lot more practical.

    Just a thought...

    Jay
  • cr8ingwavescr8ingwaves Registered Users Posts: 194 Major grins
    edited October 20, 2011
    I live sw of Pittsburgh. I would be happy to shoot your daughter for you! ;-)

    I actually offer what we have come to call the "mommarazzi" package where I show up and shoot your child for you and you enjoy the day. Good luck in OH.


    I shoot sports with a Canon 7D. it does video as well.
  • northcoastnorthcoast Registered Users Posts: 66 Big grins
    edited October 20, 2011
    KatyD wrote: »
    Am heading to Columbus Ohio next week for first cheer competition of the year, can't wait --and hoping there are some nice shots of her *lol*

    Which competition? Is it Cheer Power? My daughter's team doesn't compete but she will do her first solo of the year there... I found out last night that her coach thinks she'll be ready and have the routine down.
  • Rocketman766Rocketman766 Registered Users Posts: 332 Major grins
    edited October 20, 2011
    rolette wrote: »
    Not sure about cheer competitions, but in big club volleyball tournaments, you can pay to have someone come shoot *your* kid vs. the usual luck of the draw stuff.

    Given the costs associated with the necessary equipment, if you aren't really into doing it yourself, that may be a lot more practical.

    Just a thought...

    Jay
    I live sw of Pittsburgh. I would be happy to shoot your daughter for you! ;-)

    I actually offer what we have come to call the "mommarazzi" package where I show up and shoot your child for you and you enjoy the day. Good luck in OH.


    I shoot sports with a Canon 7D. it does video as well.

    For All-Star Cheer I would make sure there isn't a contracted photographer there first with exclusive rights.... if not, great idea, if there is, check with the organizer/photographer first.

    Maybe I will have a chance to bump into some of you this year, won't be in OH, but going to Indy in December...
  • rainbowrainbow Registered Users Posts: 2,765 Major grins
    edited October 20, 2011
    For your consideration:

    Canon T2i refurbished (directly from Canon) with 18 - 55 IS kit lens (not for sports, but for most other shots outdoor) is $640: High ISO performance (giving you faster shutter speeds) and sensor that will allow cropping of shots (in essence, enlarging photo if you are a little far away).

    Canon 85 mm f/1.8 lens, new at $399. Good for indoor gymnastics and basketball.

    Under $1100 will get you back into the hobby with an excellent entry level camera that is user friendly and get you excited about taking pics again. Gives you something to do and the satisfaction of taking your own shots. Can use on vacations, family gatherings, etc.

    Others may chime in and give you other options that generally cost more and are more difficult to learn and maybe handle (increased weight...). This is a great way to see if it is your cup of tea and meet your needs of getting a few shots of your kids. I started with a much lesser camera (Rebel XT with the 85 mm for basketball and it served me well for a few years before I upgraded both.
  • KatyDKatyD Registered Users Posts: 4 Beginner grinner
    edited October 21, 2011
    It is cheer power!!
    northcoast wrote: »
    Which competition? Is it Cheer Power? My daughter's team doesn't compete but she will do her first solo of the year there... I found out last night that her coach thinks she'll be ready and have the routine down.


    Please let me know who your daughter is and we will cheer for her :-) My daughter is a flyer for Pittsburgh Superstars and is on Youth 2. The entire gym is there :-) and we will be there all day :-)
  • KatyDKatyD Registered Users Posts: 4 Beginner grinner
    edited October 21, 2011
    Interesting name for package :-) LOVE IT!
    I live sw of Pittsburgh. I would be happy to shoot your daughter for you! ;-)

    I actually offer what we have come to call the "mommarazzi" package where I show up and shoot your child for you and you enjoy the day. Good luck in OH.


    I shoot sports with a Canon 7D. it does video as well.

    I would definitely be interested in hearing more about this as well as the competitions you are going to :-) I can't access facebook from here, but will look when I get home :-)
  • northcoastnorthcoast Registered Users Posts: 66 Big grins
    edited October 22, 2011
    KatyD wrote: »
    Please let me know who your daughter is and we will cheer for her :-) My daughter is a flyer for Pittsburgh Superstars and is on Youth 2. The entire gym is there :-) and we will be there all day :-)

    Izzy is with IYooWee Fusion and her solo will be in the Croud Leader Mini level because of her age. She is also a flyer on the Youth 2 Team. She is completing solo and the team will not complete. I'll be a my son's hockey game, then the cheer event, and back to the rink for a second hockey game. I should get to she her compete but I will miss awards...

    I'll share another pic... this time of her (Top-Center).

    1241598107_GpHnZ-L.jpg
  • bobcoolbobcool Registered Users Posts: 271 Major grins
    edited October 24, 2011
    Unless you want to spend some serious money (see below), I'd embrace the "contract a photographer" route. I've done dance competitions/recitals and also offer a "shoot your child for the event" package, and I try to make it affordable for the parents, so I only charge $75/child with a four child minimum. That way it's worth my time to go to the event, and the parents usually get at least 25 shots of their child burned to a CD, which averages about $3 per photo.

    I use the Nikon D700 ($2800) with the 70-200 2.8 ($2,400) and the Nikon vertical grip ($230). There's real value in having a photographer worry about getting great shots and you just sitting back, relaxing and enjoying the show.
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