Off-camera speedlites

travischance · October 19, 2011

Strobist newbie here. In December or January, I purchased a Calumet Genesis 400 monolight (for sale here) & a Radio Popper JrX transmitter + receiver that has seen zero use. I'm now looking to invest in a solid strobist kit & have been tirelessly researching off-camera lighting. I currently own 1 Canon 580EX II. Initially, I thought that the Canon ST-E2 would be perfect until I read that it must have line of site with the speedlites & could easily trigger in bright light. I have several questions that I hope can be clarified.

1. If I purchase a radio system (Radio Popper PX or Pocket Wizard MiniTT1 / Flex TT5), will have the benefit of firing two 580EX II units in ETTL with high speed sync?

In lieu of purchasing another Canon speedlite, I was considering purchasing two Vivitar 285HV units. While I realize that they do not have TTL capability, they do have an "auto mode".

2. Will I be able to fire the Vivitar units using a large aperture (2.8 or better) & with high shutter speed, 1/1250+ if needed?

3. Is there a way to fire the Vivitar units off-camera with my current 580EX II as the master (on-camera)?

4. Lastly, would it be suggested to purchase a reflector/diffuser kit (i.e. Lastolite TriGrip), umbrellas or softboxes as a shoot-through?

Thank You in advance!

Qarik · October 19, 2011

1. I know for sure that with pocket wizards mini/flex you can do ETTL with more than one strobe. I *think* the radio popper non jr can do the same thing.

2. no idea about vivitar. in gneral I would just stay awy from them if money is not an issue.

4. I would definitely start with an umbrella, light stand, and a reflector. (you are shooting portraits I imagine?) they are the easiest/cheapest to use and learn. you can upgrade to a soft box later if you like.

angevin1 · October 20, 2011

travischance wrote: »

Strobist newbie here. In December or January, I purchased a Calumet Genesis 400 monolight (for sale here) & a Radio Popper JrX transmitter + receiver that has seen zero use. I'm now looking to invest in a solid strobist kit & have been tirelessly researching off-camera lighting. I currently own 1 Canon 580EX II. Initially, I thought that the Canon ST-E2 would be perfect until I read that it must have line of site with the speedlites & could easily trigger in bright light. I have several questions that I hope can be clarified.

1. If I purchase a radio system (Radio Popper PX or Pocket Wizard MiniTT1 / Flex TT5), will have the benefit of firing two 580EX II units in ETTL with high speed sync?

In lieu of purchasing another Canon speedlite, I was considering purchasing two Vivitar 285HV units. While I realize that they do not have TTL capability, they do have an "auto mode".

2. Will I be able to fire the Vivitar units using a large aperture (2.8 or better) & with high shutter speed, 1/1250+ if needed?

3. Is there a way to fire the Vivitar units off-camera with my current 580EX II as the master (on-camera)?

4. Lastly, would it be suggested to purchase a reflector/diffuser kit (i.e. Lastolite TriGrip), umbrellas or softboxes as a shoot-through?

Thank You in advance!

Travis, the accessories forum has had plenty of discussion recently on flash. Here's one: http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=207652

When you say tirelessly researching, I can empathize! It is tiring and can be confusing as well.

FOr items #1, and #2, I'll defer to others.

For#3: Yes. Yes with an optical receiver on that off cam light, such as a "peanut optical trigger". With some lessor known flashes such as the yonguo Yn-560, it has a built in optical slave mode, and it works. I used Nikons CLS creative lighting system exclusively for 3 years and I like it. But when it came to out of doors it had it's moments that were not stellar. I have since switched to radio triggers and am back to being happy again. I don't really miss TTL, because I never used it anyway.

For #4. I like the photek Softlighter. It can be a Shoot thru or Shoot-reflect bouncing the light into the umbrella and that light bouncing onto your subject.

Dan7312 · October 21, 2011

With the mini/flex you can fire multiple Canon flashes in eTTL, or second curtain sync for that matter. In fact, if you want, you can fire one group of flashes in eTTL and another in manual. BTW if you go the mini/flex route I'd recommend you also get the AC3 controller, it let's you make all the flash adjustment from the camera and makes your life much easier.

travischance wrote: »

1. If I purchase a radio system (Radio Popper PX or Pocket Wizard MiniTT1 / Flex TT5), will have the benefit of firing two 580EX II units in ETTL with high speed sync?

In lieu of purchasing another Canon speedlite, I was considering purchasing two Vivitar 285HV units. While I realize that they do not have TTL capability, they do have an "auto mode".

Thank You in advance!

travischance · October 22, 2011

Qarik wrote: »

1. I know for sure that with pocket wizards mini/flex you can do ETTL with more than one strobe. I *think* the radio popper non jr can do the same thing.

2. no idea about vivitar. in gneral I would just stay awy from them if money is not an issue.

4. I would definitely start with an umbrella, light stand, and a reflector. (you are shooting portraits I imagine?) they are the easiest/cheapest to use and learn. you can upgrade to a soft box later if you like.

Thanks Quarik. The Vivitar get's really good reviews as a manual off-camera flash. For now, I need to master light placement, controlling hot spots/shadows & simply am not ready to master shooting flashes in manual. I already have an umbrella & reflector. Thanks again.

travischance · October 22, 2011

angevin1 wrote: »

Travis, the accessories forum has had plenty of discussion recently on flash. Here's one: http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=207652

When you say tirelessly researching, I can empathize! It is tiring and can be confusing as well.

FOr items #1, and #2, I'll defer to others.

For#3: Yes. Yes with an optical receiver on that off cam light, such as a "peanut optical trigger". With some lessor known flashes such as the yonguo Yn-560, it has a built in optical slave mode, and it works. I used Nikons CLS creative lighting system exclusively for 3 years and I like it. But when it came to out of doors it had it's moments that were not stellar. I have since switched to radio triggers and am back to being happy again. I don't really miss TTL, because I never used it anyway.

For #4. I like the photek Softlighter. It can be a Shoot thru or Shoot-reflect bouncing the light into the umbrella and that light bouncing onto your subject.

Thanks for the other thread started by Divamum. As confusing as it may seem for a newbie, I actually understand the two concepts (ETTL vs. Manual). And yes, it has been tiring (staying up until 3AM each night this week on strobist & watching other photographers on YouTube). That Photek softliter seems really nice, but I've kinda settled on a Photoflex Q39 16x22 softbox (or 2). I loved the simplicity of the Radio Popper JrX system that I currently have, I simply placed the trigger on my hotshoe & plugged the receiver into the strobe (Calument Genesis 400) & fired. No programming, nothing. However, just now I realize why my photos were dark at the bottom!!! I was shooting my 7D in Manual with a maximum sync speed of 1/250 which was too fast! :bash

travischance · October 22, 2011

Dan7312 wrote: »

With the mini/flex you can fire multiple Canon flashes in eTTL, or second curtain sync for that matter. In fact, if you want, you can fire one group of flashes in eTTL and another in manual. BTW if you go the mini/flex route I'd recommend you also get the AC3 controller, it let's you make all the flash adjustment from the camera and makes your life much easier.

Thanks Dan. I'm considering the Mini/Flex system but doesn't it have a maximum sync speed of 1/800 which could be too slow (although I could use a ND filter). If I stay with Radio Popper, I'll need to purchase some type of commander (Canon ST-E2, 580EXII plus another off-camera flash). A few days ago, I came across the Pixel King ETTL triggers that also support HSS at 1/8000 & have a maximum distance of a little over 400 feet. There fairly new & the few reviews out here have been positive. Not to mention for a little over $300, I can get a transmitter & 2 receivers. There just seem so damn big!

Dan7312 · October 22, 2011

Mini/flex do high speed sync at speeds much faster than 1/800, they work up to the shutter speed of the camera as an on camera flash would... I'm not sure what limit you might be refering to. Mini/flex also claim to get more than an extra stop of so of light out of the flash in HSS. I think DPReview did some tests that showed this was the case.

They also have a special mode called hyper sync that sync's flashes, even studio strobes, at higher speeds than the sync speed of the camera though not as anyhere near as fast as is possible with HSS. The advantage of their hyper sync is that it doesn't make the flash go into the strobe like mode that HSS does which means you get full light output.

RP's are good too. Keep in mind the Radio Poppers don't depend on the light output of the commander, they just sense the electrical signal in the, say, the ST-E2, but still connect to the remotes via radio. What that means is that you are not limited by the light output or forward only direction fothe ST-E2. One of the advantages of he 580EXII as a commander it that you have brighter signal flash so it can reach further (or bounce of walls better or push into umbrellas) than the ST-E2. Also you can point the 580 in the direction of your remotes. But if you are using Radio Poppers that doesn't matter.

And don't forget a plain ol' cable. Syl Arena get fantastic pictures using that technique. Check out his cable site http://ocfgear.com where he goes over the advantages of cable or radio. Also, since you are shooting Canon you really should check out his book http://www.amazon.com/Speedliters-Handbook-Learning-Craft-Speedlites/dp/032171105X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1319281030&sr=8-1 He covers tons of stuff you might want to cram in you head before adding more equipment

travischance wrote: »

Thanks Dan. I'm considering the Mini/Flex system but doesn't it have a maximum sync speed of 1/800 which could be too slow (although I could use a ND filter). If I stay with Radio Popper, I'll need to purchase some type of commander (Canon ST-E2, 580EXII plus another off-camera flash). A few days ago, I came across the Pixel King ETTL triggers that also support HSS at 1/8000 & have a maximum distance of a little over 400 feet. There fairly new & the few reviews out here have been positive. Not to mention for a little over $300, I can get a transmitter & 2 receivers. There just seem so damn big!

digismile · October 23, 2011

I've been using the PW FlexTT5's and an AC3 (the AC3 I think is definitely a must have) with my 2 580EX's for about 5-6 weeks and I'm very happy with them.

I opted for three FlexTT5's instead of having one be a MiniTT1. I believe in keeping things as replaceable/redundant as possible. The TT5's use AA's (as do my 580Ex's). The miniTT1 uses a 3V lithium battery, so for me, I like having to carry just one type of battery. The TT5 can also trigger your camera remotely (but this wasn't the selling feature for me).

You should know that the Canon version of these PW's has had some issues from early days with RF interference, specifically with 580EX and EX II's. The RF interference caused problems with misfiring and distance. I can report that I had a couple issues the first day in properly setting them up, but since then I have taken a few hundred photos and maybe had an issue with three or four photos (my issues were more likely due to my recycle time getting slower as the batteries ran down. With the RF cover on, you don't see the light on the back).

Regards,

travischance · October 24, 2011

Thanks for the heads up. I came across a review of PW & RP on YouTube by TriCoastPhoto & they stated they'd experienced mis-fires. Unfortunately, I'm not prepared to drop the coin needed for RP at this time. What ar RF covers?

Dan7312 · October 24, 2011

580's emit rf noise that limit the distance the PW's can used at reliably to about 30ft. One of the fixes for this is to cover parts of the 580 with some rf shielding cover.

There are two kinds of RF covers for PW's. There is a sock like bag that comes with them that covers everything except the lens the flash comes out of. These are a bit combersome to work with.

The AC7 hard cover is a molded plastic cover that is much easier to work with and lets see the controls on the back of the flash. IT also give you extra attachment points on the flash.

travischance wrote: »

Thanks for the heads up. I came across a review of PW & RP on YouTube by TriCoastPhoto & they stated they'd experienced mis-fires. Unfortunately, I'm not prepared to drop the coin needed for RP at this time. What ar RF covers?

travischance · October 24, 2011

Great information - thanks Dan! Would two softboxes (16x22) be overkill? Or should I go with one 16x22 & one extra small (12x16)? I'll be working alone most of the time. Thanks.

Dan7312 · October 24, 2011

I understand some of the mechanics of getting things set up and how the Canon flashes work. I went to one of Syl Arena's speedlite workshops and learned a ton there and experimented a lot. I'm using the Apollo modifier because Syl showed how easy and quick they are to setup. My day job is in technology so I can learn that kind of stuff pretty quickly.

As far at the practicalities of lighting a scene to give you a good composition... you really want to get that advice on that from others here. I'm an enthusiastic amature, that's all.

However the bigger the softbox relative to the size of subject the softer the shadows are. One of the things that Syl made really clear in his workshop was the shadows in an image are just as important to the composition as the well light parts. But he is an artist and it's amazing what he does with lights.

Dan

travischance wrote: »

Great information - thanks Dan! Would two softboxes (16x22) be overkill? Or should I go with one 16x22 & one extra small (12x16)? I'll be working alone most of the time. Thanks.

angevin1 · October 25, 2011

travischance wrote: »

Great information - thanks Dan! Would two softboxes (16x22) be overkill? Or should I go with one 16x22 & one extra small (12x16)? I'll be working alone most of the time. Thanks.

Travis, it all depends on what you're shooting and how much light you want placed-where. A 16x22 SB is great for head-shots/portraits but you won't get much more coverage than that. Yes. it can light a bigger area if you back it off but then you get into the fall off and harshness, etc. I forgot to mention to go to the People forum and take a look at the "Pull Back" thread that Hackbone Started. It is full of set-up photos.

travischance · October 25, 2011

Thanks for the thread information Tom!

Off-camera speedlites

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